NBP part II

Communications Committee report launch next Tuesday

Tue, 27 Aug 2019

12.00 Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Audio Visual Room, LH 2000

Report Launch: an investigation to examine the National Broadband Plan process thus far and how best to proceed and the best means to roll out rural broadband

Minister hits out at proposal to recommend re-opening the broadband

https://www.newstalk.com/news/minister-hits-proposal-recommend-re-opening-broadband-process-897547

Not news really but it gives a good indication as to what the Dept/Government will be doing with the Committee recommendations.

Jim

The Cush wrote: »

Kinda recycled news from last March - Government spends more than €25m on consultancy fees for National Broadband Plan

Sir Timmy & Co want to spend more

The suggestion in the article that they would not compensate NBI if the contract were to be cancelled is not credible. It would not have been possible for NBI to engage staff or sub-contractors, or order kit, if there was no commitment from DCCAE. The damage to all future procurement from cancellation without compensation would be hard to estimate. I guess a lot hangs on the word "obligation"

The letter from Donohoe clarifies that if the government walks away from the contract with the preferred bidder, “there is no obligation to reimburse” the bidder, “regardless of whether or not the procurement results in the award of a contract”.

Update:

John McGurk (yes, I know) refers to the letter and defends gap-funding here.
https://t.co/Bgc9ZNDjNJ

Kinda recycled news from last March - Government spends more than €25m on consultancy fees for National Broadband Plan

Sir Timmy & Co want to spend more

Members of the committee also voted for the government to commission an external and independent review on whether the current proposal is value for money.

Fianna Fáil’s Communications spokesperson Timmy Dooley said this week that an independent expert, from outside the State, who has expertise in EU law as well as broadband network provision should carry out the review.

He did not believe that someone from one of the established consultancy firms, often used to carry out reviews into government matters, such as the national broadband plan, should be asked to do the review.

“The consultancy fees spent by government on their botched National Broadband Plan is disgraceful but unsurprising. They have spent over €25 million of taxpayers’ money for the private sector to recommend a flawed privatisation model that will see €3 billion transferred from the public purse to private shareholders.

Orebro wrote: »

The roadshow is continuing regardless of the noise being made from Timmy and his merry band of mis-informed muppets:

http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2019/08/22/e47-million-to-be-invested-in-westmeath-under-national-broadband-plan/

I might go to the Ploughing myself if the announcement is imminent!

Nearly all the counties' investments have been re-announced in the last few weeks. There are minimal differences since May 7th except maybe Kerry -€10M and Meath +€10M.

Orebro

The roadshow is continuing regardless of the noise being made from Timmy and his merry band of mis-informed muppets:

http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2019/08/22/e47-million-to-be-invested-in-westmeath-under-national-broadband-plan/

I might go to the Ploughing myself if the announcement is imminent!

BarryM

rodge123 wrote: »

So you’re implying I have that much power to influence my friends vote as well as members of my household?
Didn’t occur to you that maybe they are all equally annoyed and can make up their own minds?!
Seen as we are jumping to wild assumptions, here’s one for you - you must be an old school ardent life long FF voter that’s upset people can see right through Timmy’s/FF stance on the NBP. Eye rolls x 100!!

Please calm down :cool:, it was a 'joke' remark, fell on deaf ears.....

bye, back to the subject of the thread......

clohamon wrote: »

Yes, but would he blow €25-€50K of party money on it?

Not a hope. That's why they are only recommending it be done so the Govt would commission it. It's just pure politics at this stage. If the Govt make a mess of the NBP FF can say we told you so and if its a success FF will say it was because of them keeping FG in check. Sadly, nothing occurring at the moment is for the timely delivery of the NBP. As rodge123 said above, it's all too easy to see through Timmy & FF's stance on this.

The Cush wrote: »

FF have a liking for consultant reports, Micheal Martin had lots of them done when he was health minister.

Yes, but would he blow €25-€50K of party money on it?

clohamon wrote: »

Seems like someone would have to pay for these consultants. I'm guessing the Committee doesn't have the power to employ consultants.

FF have a liking for consultant reports, Micheal Martin had lots of them done when he was health minister.

The Cush wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/broadband-plan-contract-4776601-Aug2019/

- Communications Committee 70 page report to be published next week.
government sources have hit back at Fianna Fail’s position to carry out a review, stating that nothing new will be discovered.

“After months of hearings, the opposition’s big plan is to delay the roll out, and instead commission more reports, and hire more consultants.

Seems like someone would have to pay for these consultants. I'm guessing the Committee doesn't have the power to employ consultants.

careless sherpa

westyIrl wrote: »

This is Timmy on Clare FM following vote (nothing new)

https://www.mixcloud.com/ClareFMNewsSports/timmy-dooley-speaking-to-clare-fms-james-mulhall-on-national-broadband-plan-review/

Reading through the recommendations, it should be quite easy for the Dept/Govt to respond and debunk most if not the entirety of them. For example, since when does a USO ensure infrastructure remains in public ownership?

Trying not to sound disrespectful or pretentious but I'd have thought a committee would come up with something more substantial, competent and constructive after 16 weeks.

Jim

I thought they would have put Timmy into the attic after his act of national sabotage regarding Brexit. The man is a serious liability

rodge123

BarryM wrote: »

You are probably too young.... but it was common that the 'head of the household' dictated how the voters in the house voted. I thought/think it is no longer the case.

Nothing to do with NBP.

So you’re implying I have that much power to influence my friends vote as well as members of my household?
Didn’t occur to you that maybe they are all equally annoyed and can make up their own minds?!
Seen as we are jumping to wild assumptions, here’s one for you - you must be an old school ardent life long FF voter that’s upset people can see right through Timmy’s/FF stance on the NBP. Eye rolls x 100!!

BarryM

rodge123 wrote: »

Explain what’s “throwback ireland” about never giving a certain party a vote again based on them scuppering a plan that is very important to you?

You are probably too young.... but it was common that the 'head of the household' dictated how the voters in the house voted. I thought/think it is no longer the case.

Nothing to do with NBP.

https://www.thejournal.ie/broadband-plan-contract-4776601-Aug2019/

- Communications Committee 70 page report to be published next week.

- One of the only recommendations not adopted by the committee was a proposal from Fine Gael members to sign the contract and to roll-out the network as soon as possible.

government sources have hit back at Fianna Fail’s position to carry out a review, stating that nothing new will be discovered.

“When the NBP was announced back in May, the opposition claimed they had an alternative that would be cheaper for the taxpayer and deliver broadband to rural Ireland more swiftly.

“After months of hearings, the opposition’s big plan is to delay the roll out, and instead commission more reports, and hire more consultants.

“It’s proof positive that there is no better plan,” they said.

This is Timmy on Clare FM following vote (nothing new)

https://www.mixcloud.com/ClareFMNewsSports/timmy-dooley-speaking-to-clare-fms-james-mulhall-on-national-broadband-plan-review/

Reading through the recommendations, it should be quite easy for the Dept/Govt to respond and debunk most if not the entirety of them. For example, since when does a USO ensure infrastructure remains in public ownership?

Trying not to sound disrespectful or pretentious but I'd have thought a committee would come up with something more substantial, competent and constructive after 16 weeks.

Jim

Recommendations as related by Examiner.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/--945170.html

a three-month external independent review by an expert “with international experience” should take place into the Government’s existing broadband plan, its €3bn cost, and tendering process

this review should be given the right to recommend a universal service obligation, which would ensure any broadband system remains in public ownership

it should also be allowed to recommend directly awarding a new contract to ESB or Eir to allow either firm to provide broadband at a fraction of the existing €3bn predicted cost, after Eir claimed earlier this year it could provide the service for around €1bn

a full cost-benefit analysis into the National Broadband Plan should take place before any contract with Granahan McCourt is signed

and that the Government’s previous broadband review by Peter Smyth should be “updated” within a month due to fresh evidence “which emerged linking Frank McCourt with the Granahan McCourt bid”.

Difficult to see where the testimony of KPMG, Analysys Mason, PWC, Eircom, ESB ComReg, DCCAE has been absorbed.

As far as I could see, the level of attendance at the meetings was abysmal. And the European Commission were seemingly never asked to attend or submit an opinion.

Orebro wrote: »

So I presume we hold our breaths today and wait to see what the Gov/Richard Brutons response to this is? Let’s hope they see this as the ambush it is and push ahead with the signing.

Committee recommendations are non binding, of course the Dept and government will respectfully consider the recommendations and respond and then file it beside the PAC's last report.

Other big issues to be dealt with next month when the Dáil returns, Brexit, cervical check, public services card etc.

Orebro

So I presume we hold our breaths today and wait to see what the Gov/Richard Brutons response to this is? Let’s hope they see this as the ambush it is and push ahead with the signing.

rodge123

BarryM wrote: »

Wonderful example of 'throwback Ireland' It used be easy to say "that is a FF/FG house", glad it survives in yours :rolleyes:

Explain what’s “throwback ireland” about never giving a certain party a vote again based on them scuppering a plan that is very important to you?

BarryM

rodge123 wrote: »

FF can count on never receiving a vote for any election again from my household and a few for my friends also if they manage to delay this beyond the signing date of September as planned.

Wonderful example of 'throwback Ireland' It used be easy to say "that is a FF/FG house", glad it survives in yours :rolleyes:

The report and vote do indeed seem a bit of a pointless exercise as I've just heard Timmy on the radio news saying it wasn't a red-line issue for FF and they wouldn't bring down the government if they're ignored. I'm sure he was made well aware of this FF stance by on high. So the signing is on...

Jim

rodge123

I wonder what Michael Martin makes of Timmy’s crusade to constantly thwart and delay the nbp, seen as michaels county is in line to receive the largest sum of money from the state for it!
He really needs to put Timmmahh back in his box, the man is a clown as recently shown with his brexit tweet also.

FF can count on never receiving a vote for any election again from my household and a few for my friends also if they manage to delay this beyond the signing date of September as planned.

celticbhoy27

clohamon wrote: »

I suppose Timmy Dooley always had enough opposition TDs and Senators in Committee to cause trouble with this, but it's not clear how he can force a vote in the Dail without his party leader agreeing to it.

https://twitter.com/Ocionnaith/status/1163829698725634048

Presumably he, Brian Stanley, or Barry Cowen can supply some legal advice to back up the ESB proposal.

Reading a few news outlets which have picked this up. Looks like the government is not obliged to accept the committees recommendations and can continue on with the signing. Let's be honest these recommendations are the same old bs Timmy's been throwing around since the beginning. Sign the contract and stop wasting time

I suppose Timmy Dooley always had enough opposition TDs and Senators in Committee to cause trouble with this, but it's not clear how he can force a vote in the Dail without his party leader agreeing to it.

https://twitter.com/Ocionnaith/status/1163829698725634048

Presumably he, Brian Stanley, or Barry Cowen can supply some legal advice to back up the ESB proposal.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/national-broadband-network-should-remain-in-public-ownership-oireachtas-committee-recommends-945070.html

Pique wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/national-broadband-network-should-remain-in-public-ownership-oireachtas-committee-recommends-945070.html

Members also voted to re-open negotiations with the ESB in relation to the project.

They voted to re-open negotiations with a single entity (which would fall foul of state aid in any eventuality), that left the bidding process of its own free will.

Incompetent shower whoever voted for this approach.

Jim

celticbhoy27

Members also voted to re-open negotiations with the ESB in relation to the project

Jesus wept. Does this vote actually mean anything? More importantly is it a stumbling block?

Pique

An Oireachtas Committee has called for the National Broadband Plan to remain in public ownership.
A review carried out by the Communications Committee concluded the existing plan is based on a flawed tendering process and ignored viable alternative options.
Committee member and Sinn Féin TD Brian Stanley says motions passed at the committee today found the State is actually carrying almost all of the risk of the project.
The State is investing €3bn, while the private operator is investing €220m.
Members also voted to re-open negotiations with the ESB in relation to the project.

heavydawson

westyIrl wrote: »

Due later today

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/national-broadband-plan-details-to-be-subject-of-vote-1.3991140

Jim

Yeesh. That doesn't make for good reading. Looks like delays are all but inevitable unless the government can ignore the committee report/votes completely.