Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Kidchameleon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What were the terms of the Brexit that the 52% voted for?

If there was a leave vote, they would trigger article 50, try to negociate a deal with the EU or leave with no deal. Cameron stated this many times.

Im sick of the horrible attitude on here that the Brits didnt know what they were voting for. They voted to leave the EU, what is not to understand about that?

The Europhile attitude in here is repulsive. Ireland has no hope.

declanflynn

Ok I wont use it again but I think we have to toughen up a bit and face up to the UK leaving, we have depended on them for too long and for too much of our exports, we will find new markets for our goods and services, there will be a shock to our economy but we can get over it, agrifood exports will be hard hit especially beef, it might be the best thing ever to happen to beef farming because a no deal brexit will make it face up to problems that have been there for a while but were just kicked down the road.
Britain thinks it might be shooting itself in the foot but the gun is the other way round

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If there was a leave vote, they would trigger article 50, try to negociate a deal with the EU or leave with no deal. Cameron stated this many times.

Im sick of the horrible attitude on here that the Brits didnt know what they were voting for. They voted to leave the EU, what is not to understand about that?

The Europhile attitude in here is repulsive. Ireland has no hope.

What percentage of people voted for no deal in 2016? What percentage would vote for no deal today?

declanflynn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What were the terms of the Brexit that the 52% voted for?

If there was a leave vote, they would trigger article 50, try to negociate a deal with the EU or leave with no deal. Cameron stated this many times.

Im sick of the horrible attitude on here that the Brits didnt know what they were voting for. They voted to leave the EU, what is not to understand about that?

The Europhile attitude in here is repulsive. Ireland has no hope.

I think its britian that has no hope

swampgas

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If there was a leave vote, they would trigger article 50, try to negociate a deal with the EU or leave with no deal. Cameron stated this many times.

Im sick of the horrible attitude on here that the Brits didnt know what they were voting for. They voted to leave the EU, what is not to understand about that?

The Europhile attitude in here is repulsive. Ireland has no hope.

Ireland has democracy. We also have a huge majority in favour of the EU. What's your problem - that very few people share your dislike of the EU?

Man up and accept the will of the (Irish) people.

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If there was a leave vote, they would trigger article 50, try to negociate a deal with the EU or leave with no deal. Cameron stated this many times.

Im sick of the horrible attitude on here that the Brits didnt know what they were voting for. They voted to leave the EU, what is not to understand about that?

The Europhile attitude in here is repulsive. Ireland has no hope.

They clearly 'didn't know' and as a result still 'don't know' what it is they want.

The democratic deficit is in the UK, not here in the EU.

swampgas

declanflynn wrote: »

Ok I wont use it again but I think we have to toughen up a bit and face up to the UK leaving, we have depended on them for too long and for too much of our exports, we will find new markets for our goods and services, there will be a shock to our economy but we can get over it, agrifood exports will be hard hit especially beef, it might be the best thing ever to happen to beef farming because a no deal brexit will make it face up to problems that have been there for a while but were just kicked down the road.
Britain thinks it might be shooting itself in the foot but the gun is the other way round

One of the few benefits of the whole Brexit mess over the last few years is how it has encouraged Irish businesses to diversify and find new markets. Even if Brexit is cancelled those new markets will be valuable. Even more so if they crash out.
Hopefully the businesses who are overly dependent on the UK find a way to adapt before it's too late, but I think there must be quite a few business owners having sleepless nights worrying about it.

Kidchameleon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What percentage of people voted for no deal in 2016? What percentage would vote for no deal today?

52% in 2016, today I have no idea. Whats your point?

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

52% in 2016, today I have no idea. Whats your point?

52% of people voted for no deal in 2016? Could you provide evidence for this?

Kidchameleon

swampgas wrote: »

. What's your problem - that very few people share your dislike of the EU?

Nope thats not my problem at all.

My problem is that people keep banging on about the Brits having another vote ala Lisbon 2

Kidchameleon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

52% of people voted for no deal in 2016? Could you provide evidence for this?

They were told by their goverment before the referendum that there may be no deal

InTheShadows

swampgas wrote: »

Ireland has democracy. We also have a huge majority in favour of the EU. What's your problem - that very few people share your dislike of the EU?

Man up and accept the will of the (Irish) people.

Democracy died in Ireland after Nice and Lisbon votes. We are just the EU's butt boys now

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They were told by their goverment before the referendum that there may be no deal

They were also told that getting a deal would be simple. Which lie did the 52% believe? What percentage want no deal today?

declanflynn

swampgas wrote: »

declanflynn wrote: »

Ok I wont use it again but I think we have to toughen up a bit and face up to the UK leaving, we have depended on them for too long and for too much of our exports, we will find new markets for our goods and services, there will be a shock to our economy but we can get over it, agrifood exports will be hard hit especially beef, it might be the best thing ever to happen to beef farming because a no deal brexit will make it face up to problems that have been there for a while but were just kicked down the road.
Britain thinks it might be shooting itself in the foot but the gun is the other way round

One of the few benefits of the whole Brexit mess over the last few years is how it has encouraged Irish businesses to diversify and find new markets. Even if Brexit is cancelled those new markets will be valuable. Even more so if they crash out.
Hopefully the businesses who are overly dependent on the UK find a way to adapt before it's too late, but I think there must be quite a few business owners having sleepless nights worrying about it.

Agree, I'm a beef farmer and I was worried about a no deal brexit but iv come full circle and want a no deal for the reason I stated above, our economy will take a hit but we will come out the far side stronger, I worked in London for 10 years in the nintys the majority of the English people kinda think the Irish and all other races are how can I put it ,not as smart as they are.

sabat

declanflynn wrote: »

Ok I wont use it again but I think we have to toughen up a bit and face up to the UK leaving, we have depended on them for too long

I think the EU 27 should rescind the final month of the extension and boot them out at the end of September. It was only granted to allow them time to pass the deal, which they have reneged on. In fact I'd give give them until 13/9 at the G7 meeting then cackle with laughter at BJ as he begs to stay.

declanflynn

sabat wrote: »

declanflynn wrote: »

Ok I wont use it again but I think we have to toughen up a bit and face up to the UK leaving, we have depended on them for too long

I think the EU 27 should rescind the final month of the extension and boot them out at the end of September. It was only granted to allow them time to pass the deal, which they have reneged on. In fact I'd give give them until 13/9 at the G7 meeting then cackle with laughter at BJ as he begs to stay.

That's more like it

InTheShadows

InTheShadows wrote: »

Democracy died in Ireland after Nice and Lisbon votes. We are just the EU's butt boys now

Yes, it would be so much better to be John Bull's rape victim for another 400 years.

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Nope thats not my problem at all.

My problem is that people keep banging on about the Brits having another vote ala Lisbon 2

We are trying to find a way out for the UK who can't seem to find it for themselves.

Do you agree that the inability to Leave is a UK problem?

declanflynn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What percentage of people voted for no deal in 2016? What percentage would vote for no deal today?

52% in 2016, today I have no idea. Whats your point?

Go on have a guess mate

declanflynn

I think you know the answer like we all do

InTheShadows

J Mysterio wrote: »

I thought this was funny.

https://twitter.com/CheltArtist/status/1161714012456984578

Not really funny at all tbh... Just thuggish language that's all

Kidchameleon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are trying to find a way out for the UK who can't seem to find it for themselves.

Do you agree that the inability to Leave is a UK problem?

yes it is a uk problem

Kidchameleon

declanflynn wrote: »

Go on have a guess mate

A guess? 60%

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They can moan all they want, democracy has spoken, there is nothing that will change it.

Yes, and a majority of people in Northern Ireland clearly stated in the same 2016 Brexit vote that they want to remain in the EU. There's a lot of pussyfooting going on here, and generally, about the seriousness of the UK's obligations under international law towards the wishes of - to use the terminology of the GFA verbatim - 'a majority of the people of Northern Ireland'. This is not a side issue; it is the central issue. The government of the UK is currently intent upon bringing Northern Ireland out of the EU against the expressed wishes of 'a majority of its population', as stated in the very same 2016 Brexit vote you are so eager to cite as "democratic". The international community must make it clear that there will be consequences for this unilateral violation by Britain of an international agreement with the government of Ireland. So far, both Nancy Pelosi and Richard Neal have been crystal clear that there will be consequences.

And for some more verbatim GFA commitments that the British government is currently trying to renege on:

When will the British government 'recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status' as members of the European Union?

When will the British government accept that its intention to bring Northern Ireland out of the EU 'must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland'?

When will the British government accept that, concerning NI's membership of the EU, 'it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people'?

When will the British government 'recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status' as members of the European Union?

When will the British government live up to its part of the GFA commitment it made with the Irish government regarding its '[wish] to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union', when the UK is sending a veritable torpedo through both British-Irish relations and its commitment as a partner in the EU?

Please read: Good Friday Agreement, 1998

Kidchameleon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

They were also told that getting a deal would be simple. Which lie did the 52% believe? What percentage want no deal today?

Perhaps everyone thought it would be simple, that was not necessarily a lie. It doesnt matter who does or does not want a no deal now, they are leaving with or without one

Kidchameleon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, and a majority of people in Northern Ireland clearly stated in the same 2016 Brexit vote that they want to remain in the EU. There's a lot of pussyfooting going on here, and generally, about the seriousness of the UK's obligations under international law towards the wishes of - to use the terminology of the GFA verbatim - 'a majority of the people of Northern Ireland'. This is not a side issue; it is the central issue. The government of the UK is currently intent upon bringing Northern Ireland out of the EU against the expressed wishes of 'a majority of its population', as stated in the very same 2016 Brexit vote you are so eager to cite as "democratic". The international community must make it clear that there will be consequences for this unilateral violation by Britain of an international agreement with the government of Ireland. So far, both Nancy Pelosi and Richard Neal have been crystal clear that there will be consequences.

And for some more verbatim GFA commitments that the British government is currently trying to renege on:

When will the British government 'recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status' as members of the European Union?

When will the British government accept that its intention to bring Northern Ireland out of the EU 'must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland'?

When will the British government accept that, concerning NI's membership of the EU, 'it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people'?

When will the British government 'recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status' as members of the European Union?

When will the British government live up to its part of the GFA commitment it made with the Irish government regarding its '[wish] to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union', when the UK is sending a veritable torpedo through both British-Irish relations and its commitment as a partner in the EU?

Please read: Good Friday Agreement, 1998

The people of Northern Ireland voted in the referendum??

Donegal chose not to repeal the 8th, should we not have repealed it? By your logic the answer is no...

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The people of Northern Ireland voted in the referendum??

Donegal chose not to repeal the 8th, should we not have repealed it? By your logic the answer is no...

If Donegal had been given a whole plethora of democratic rights, guaranteed under international law, which were predicated upon the wishes of 'a majority of the population of Donegal' then, yes, of course. Unlike Northern Ireland, however, Donegal has never been given such rights, so your point is a non sequitur.

Upending the GFA, under England's Brexit plan a majority of the population of Northern Ireland does not have any say in NI's status as part of the European Union. In fact, they are being railroaded out of the EU against their democratically expressed wishes. That's not a little ironic given your affinity with the word 'democracy'. It's almost as if democracy, for you, starts and finishes with the wishes of a majority of people in England alone and the lesser types, such as the majority in Northern Ireland, must follow. A sort of rehashed "imperial democracy".

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, and a majority of people in Northern Ireland clearly stated in the same 2016 Brexit vote that they want to remain in the EU. There's a lot of pussyfooting going on here, and generally, about the seriousness of the UK's obligations under international law towards the wishes of - to use the terminology of the GFA verbatim - 'a majority of the people of Northern Ireland'. This is not a side issue; it is the central issue. The government of the UK is currently intent upon bringing Northern Ireland out of the EU against the expressed wishes of 'a majority of its population', as stated in the very same 2016 Brexit vote you are so eager to cite as "democratic". The international community must make it clear that there will be consequences for this unilateral violation by Britain of an international agreement with the government of Ireland. So far, both Nancy Pelosi and Richard Neal have been crystal clear that there will be consequences.

And for some more verbatim GFA commitments that the British government is currently trying to renege on:

When will the British government 'recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status' as members of the European Union?

When will the British government accept that its intention to bring Northern Ireland out of the EU 'must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland'?

When will the British government accept that, concerning NI's membership of the EU, 'it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people'?

When will the British government 'recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status' as members of the European Union?

When will the British government live up to its part of the GFA commitment it made with the Irish government regarding its '[wish] to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the close co-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union', when the UK is sending a veritable torpedo through both British-Irish relations and its commitment as a partner in the EU?

Please read: Good Friday Agreement, 1998

maybe you should, then you’ll stop misquoting it.

Seth Brundle

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If there was a leave vote, they would trigger article 50, try to negociate a deal with the EU or leave with no deal. Cameron stated this many times.

Im sick of the horrible attitude on here that the Brits didnt know what they were voting for. They voted to leave the EU, what is not to understand about that?

The Europhile attitude in here is repulsive. Ireland has no hope.

If you're sick of it, why do you keep returning to troll post your nonsense?

InTheShadows wrote: »

Democracy died in Ireland after Nice and Lisbon votes. We are just the EU's butt boys now

So there were changes or clarifications given to the Irish people before the second vote?
Your lack of understanding to the vote is clear!

declanflynn

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If there was a leave vote, they would trigger article 50, try to negociate a deal with the EU or leave with no deal. Cameron stated this many times.

Im sick of the horrible attitude on here that the Brits didnt know what they were voting for. They voted to leave the EU, what is not to understand about that?

The Europhile attitude in here is repulsive. Ireland has no hope.

If you're sick of it, why do you keep returning to troll post your nonsense?

InTheShadows wrote: »

Democracy died in Ireland after Nice and Lisbon votes. We are just the EU's butt boys now

So there were changes or clarifications given to the Irish people before the second vote?
Your lack of understanding to the vote is clear!

It's clear from some posts on this forum that we need to take back control of our borders