Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

excludedbin

Why find an example of what you're talking about when you can just post a drawing of what you imagine is happening? Naturally, the black people saying antifa don't speak for them are the only ones we should be listening to, and especially not black people who're a part of antifa themselves.

Oh hey, I can do that too

Chris_Heilong

excludedbin wrote: »

Why find an example of what you're talking about when you can just post a drawing of what you imagine is happening? Naturally, the black people saying antifa don't speak for them are the only ones we should be listening to, and especially not black people who're a part of antifa themselves.

Oh hey, I can do that too

This post is just pure delusion, why can you not accept you are wrong? Antifa were branded domestic terrorists by the Obama administration way back, they are not fighting for anyone other than themselves. Most of them hate the world, were bullied in school and do not fit into society so for them it is about revenge, the problem that has been shown by history is that in the countries where they have achieved their revolutionary change the ones that seize power in this new world then kill all the people who fought to bring on that revolution so they do not pose a threat, that is where the term "first against the wall" comes from.

excludedbin

Accept I'm wrong about what? I consider neo-Nazis (y'know, the people who march through the streets chanting "the Jews will not replace us") a threat, not the people who combat them.

Most of them hate the world, were bullied in school and do not fit into society so for them it is about revenge

That's certainly a claim you've just made. I could equally say neo-Nazis are typically bitter loners who can't fit into normal society and so project their failings onto it. We could trade those kinds of claims all day but we'd still be right where we started off.

that is where the term "first against the wall" comes from.

Gonna need a source on that one. Considering the phrase has been widely used for a long time.

Chris_Heilong

excludedbin wrote: »

Accept I'm wrong about what? I consider neo-Nazis (y'know, the people who march through the streets chanting "the Jews will not replace us") a threat, not the people who combat them.


That's certainly a claim you've just made. I could equally say neo-Nazis are typically bitter loners who can't fit into normal society and so project their failings onto it. We could trade those kinds of claims all day but we'd still be right where we started off.


Gonna need a source on that one. Considering the phrase has been widely used for a long time.

neo-Nazis are a very small group of Identitarians that we all disagree with but what has that got to do with Antifa? They very rarely if ever come in contact with neo-Nazis, it is usually just people with controversial opinions or simply Trump supporters that are the victims of Antifa.

What does burning the the courthouse in portland have to do with neo-Nazis?
https://thepostmillennial.com/watch-antifa-militants-portland-arson

What does beating an old man up have to do with neo-Nazis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWMaqBTERA

What does beating people with a bike lock have anything to do with Neo Nazis?
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2018/08/08/bike-lock-toting-antifa-goon-gets-3-years-probation-felony-charges-dropped/

I will await a detailed argument of why you think these things are justified.

Nermal

Bowie wrote: »

People bitch about protesters and fearmonger with antifa, these unidentified armed groups with federal authority are okay though.

Of course. Who among us does not enjoy the sight of patriots dealing harshly with crusties?

excludedbin

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

neo-Nazis are a very small group of Identitarians that we all disagree with but what has that got to do with Antifa? They very rarely if ever come in contact with neo-Nazis, it is usually just people with controversial opinions or simply Trump supporters that are the victims of Antifa.

You say that as if being a 'Trump supporter' and being a 'neo-Nazi' are mutually exclusive or something. Or that 'controversial opinions' and the like aren't often used as an annoying euphemism for 'thinks the Jews are orchestrating the downfall of the West'.

Neo-Nazis may be small but they have a worryingly growing pool of supporters and sympathisers who, despite apparently not being neo-Nazis themselves, are all too happy to engage in violence in support of them.

What does burning the the courthouse in portland have to do with neo-Nazis?
https://thepostmillennial.com/watch-antifa-militants-portland-arson

The source for which is... Andy Ngô, who is incredibly biased on this matter. The only mainstream news outlets have nothing to say about 'antifa' of course, so I'm afraid I'll have to remain sceptical as to whether it was antifa or it's another lie.

In either case, however, I won't condone it without knowing the facts of the matter. I could spend my day investigating but I've more productive things to do with my time than Ngô's fact checking.

What does beating an old man up have to do with neo-Nazis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWMaqBTERA

The same old man that was carrying a baton and was charging at people? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elderly-man-beaten-in-portland/

Blum was not simply trying to help someone — video shows he was charging at people with a baton and fighting with anti-fascist demonstrators.

https://twitter.com/Johnnthelefty/status/1145864149588561921

https://twitter.com/Johnnthelefty/status/1146236578110439424

Oops, looks like he was the instigator there. As usual, the far right carefully edit these videos to create a narrative. This one being that a poor old man didn't go there for a fight. I should hope my reticence to trust Ngô makes sense at this point.

What does beating people with a bike lock have anything to do with Neo Nazis?
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2018/08/08/bike-lock-toting-antifa-goon-gets-3-years-probation-felony-charges-dropped/

I will await a detailed argument of why you think these things are justified.

Not sure why you think I believe that's justified. If indeed they were 'just' Trump supporters then I'll condemn it.

jackboy

excludedbin wrote: »

Gonna need a source on that one. Considering the phrase has been widely used for a long time.

I’m afraid it has happened over and over again in history. If Antifa or Neo Nazis gained everything they are looking for, the first thing that would happen is that those instigators on the streets would be put against a wall and shot, by their own supporters. They are typical useful fools who serve a purpose with no consequences for those with real power looking on. Once the ‘revolution’ is complete these fools are a dangerous burden which would need liquidation.

Chris_Heilong

excludedbin wrote: »

You say that as if being a 'Trump supporter' and being a 'neo-Nazi' are mutually exclusive or something.

Ah that explains everything, I wont waste my time trying to convince you of anything as it is a difficulty task to get through to people that are that deeply mislead.

All I will say is violence is wrong and I think most people will agree with that.

James Brown

People are protesting. Some are rioting.
Focusing on the criminals to ignore why people are protesting is a major cop out.
The feds unidentified, picking people up off the streets and putting them into a van and driving away is an infringement of their rights.
If the MAGA gun toting won't wear a mask folk got treated like this it would be just as wrong and there would be bloodshed.
Dismissing or excusing this practice is indefensible.
Trump is happy to divide the nation further to solidify his base of ****nuts and self interested business folk.

Overheal

manual_man wrote: »

I don't know if it's mental illness or delusion, but some will amazingly try to equate violent masked goons as "protesters". What's happening now in Portland with the sustained Antifa riots is the result of 3 years where Antifa were largely given free reign to do whatever they want by Democrat Mayor Ted Wheeler. And all the time the Democrat Party as a whole has been stunningly silent. Silence is compliance. Democrats have fomented all of this. And not just in Portland. In cities all over America, Democrats are terrified to call out the violent extremist elements in their ranks. I hear just now that the Democratic National Convention Committee have said that members of Congress should not plan to travel to this summer's party convention in Milwaukee. They're afraid of the mob that they've created.

Source for that?

Both parties have in fact limited convention access to delegates only with even that access being limited.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/16/gop-will-limit-attendance-at-republican-convention-amid-coronavirus/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/06/24/democrats-move-convention-to-smaller-venue-cap-attendance-due-to-coronavirus/

Oh I guess Republicans are afraid of the mob they’ve created too? :rolleyes:

Overheal

Efforts by Trump to use federal agents to sweep up protesters into unmarked minivans has seemingly backfired



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8543553/Portland-mothers-form-Wall-Moms-tear-gassed-federal-officers.html?fbclid=IwAR2hGANM3JDJQRuln6cBPPhF6kqwMfo2M7fVZNwjcJl8MBcg0CTszbIDgME

A group calling itself Wall of Moms was founded by a woman so inspired by the video of a teen swept up into a rented minivan by CBP agents masquerading as a police force. The WOM group was already teargassed by federal agents on Saturday, and this week the movement has groundswelled, from a few dozen young purportedly Antifa protestors to hundreds of moms, dads, and concerned citizens.



https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1285427135746764800?s=20

I don't think this is the reaction Trump had in mind when he thought using feds to step on "Democrat-controlled cities" was a good idea.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Efforts by Trump to use federal agents to sweep up protesters into unmarked minivans has seemingly backfired



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8543553/Portland-mothers-form-Wall-Moms-tear-gassed-federal-officers.html?fbclid=IwAR2hGANM3JDJQRuln6cBPPhF6kqwMfo2M7fVZNwjcJl8MBcg0CTszbIDgME

A group calling itself Wall of Moms was founded by a woman so inspired by the video of a teen swept up into a rented minivan by CBP agents masquerading as a police force. The WOM group was already teargassed by federal agents on Saturday, and this week the movement has groundswelled, from a few dozen young purportedly Antifa protestors to hundreds of moms, dads, and concerned citizens.



https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1285427135746764800?s=20

I don't think this is the reaction Trump had in mind when he thought using feds to step on "Democrat-controlled cities" was a good idea.

53 nights of riots. What that has done to the heart of Portland will take years to overcome.

Fair play that these people have the means to ignore the consequences. Doesn't mean that they are helping.

Dyr

excludedbin wrote: »

Oh hey, I can do that too

You obviously can't.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

53 nights of riots. What that has done to the heart of Portland will take years to overcome.

Fair play that these people have the means to ignore the consequences. Doesn't mean that they are helping.

According to whom?

James Brown

Trump is doubling down threatening to send unmarked Feds to Chicago and New York.
This is to try stir up his base because his numbers are down.
Nobody should be supporting this. People are going to be killed.

Mr. Karate

Bowie wrote: »

Trump is doubling down threatening to send unmarked Feds to Chicago and New York.
This is to try stir up his base because his numbers are down.
Nobody should be supporting this. People are going to be killed.

Nobody in their right mind should be supporting riots. Especially after 50 days, but here we are.

Mr. Karate

Danzy wrote: »

53 nights of riots. What that has done to the heart of Portland will take years to overcome.

Fair play that these people have the means to ignore the consequences. Doesn't mean that they are helping.

LOL. The would be revolutionaries are now hiding behind their Moms. Can't make this **** up. These clowns are one LOL after another.

Overheal

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Nobody in their right mind should be supporting riots. Especially after 50 days, but here we are.

What? 50 days of rioting? Don’t think so mate.

There’s been a lot of protest in that time a lot of it peaceful. Many days I think with nothing reported unless you can account for all 50 days? There has been some violence but that doesn’t make the whole thing a string of riots.

Chris_Heilong

Overheal wrote: »

What? 50 days of rioting? Don’t think so mate.

There’s been a lot of protest in that time a lot of it peaceful. Many days I think with nothing reported unless you can account for all 50 days? There has been some violence but that doesn’t make the whole thing a string of riots.

It was a string of riots, if they were simply peaceful protests then there would be no need for the Feds to be sent in, It is out of control. They were hoping Trump would send in the troops at the starts so they could start crying they are being oppressed by a dictator but Trump did not take the bait and let the Democratic controlled cities deal with the problem themselves however they have failed to retake control so Trump is forced to act.

Overheal

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It was a string of riots, if they were simply peaceful protests then there would be no need for the Feds to be sent in, It is out of control. They were hoping Trump would send in the troops at the starts so they could start crying they are being oppressed by a dictator but Trump did not take the bait and let the Democratic controlled cities deal with the problem themselves however they have failed to retake control so Trump is forced to act.

Follow the link on my ID card to take you to conspiracy theories.

Brian?

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Nobody in their right mind should be supporting riots. Especially after 50 days, but here we are.

Nobody in their right mind are supporting riots. Plenty of people in their right mind are supporting peaceful protests.

biko

Seems to be a 2 for 1 deal, riots come included.

ohnonotgmail

what does the situation in portland have to do with antifa?

biko

Portland seems to be some sort of epicentre for Antifa.
"Rose City Antifa" is the oldest Antifa group in the US.

They got known for beating up a Bernie Sanders supporter who was carrying a US flag.
https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-violence-portland-bernie-sanders-video-1082072

CtevenSrowder

biko wrote: »

Portland seems to be some sort of epicentre for Antifa.
"Rose City Antifa" is the oldest Antifa group in the US.

They got known for beating up a Bernie Sanders supporter who was carrying a US flag.
https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-violence-portland-bernie-sanders-video-1082072

How do you know it was anti-fa, anti-fa isn't a group, Andy Ngo.

TomTomTim

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what does the situation in portland have to do with antifa?

Lets put it simply. What would convince you that a group are Antifa? I want specifics. It pretty clear to me that people who wear the same all black clothing have a ideological connection, or do you think it's a coincidence that they all dress in the same color with similar attire?

ohnonotgmail

TomTomTim wrote: »

Lets put it simply. What would convince you that a group are Antifa? I want specifics. It pretty clear to me that people who wear the same all black clothing have a ideological connection, or do you think it's a coincidence that they all dress in the same color with similar attire?

i must notify all my goth friends that they are now antifa.

Biker79

If theres anything to admire about these people - and Ive tried hard to find something - its their abilty to shift the goalposts when defending the rationale of their behaviour. Its quite impressive ( but not particularly so ).

Thats about it.

1800_Ladladlad

biko wrote: »

Portland seems to be some sort of epicentre for Antifa.
"Rose City Antifa" is the oldest Antifa group in the US.

They got known for beating up a Bernie Sanders supporter who was carrying a US flag.
https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-violence-portland-bernie-sanders-video-1082072

They don't like Gay Asian men either.

nullzero

There's some people on this site who would defend anything once the people responsible subscribe to the same world view as them.

I have no time for fascism, racism, any sort of discrimination.

Should I then Ally myself with people who behave like idiots in the name of "tolerance"?

These Antifa people (who are also Not Antifa at the same time as being Antifa) are by any metric the biggest boon for far right extremist organisations in living memory and do more to legitimise far right ideology than anything imaginable.

As for the people here defending them, in my opinion, they need to step back and evaluate what they are advocating for, for years far right organisations had their marches and rallys and nobody gave a damn because they were talking sh1t and all their ideological nonsense had been demonstrated to be dangerous in the first half of the 20th century and beyond a few people in tiny groups advocating for these hate filled ideologies they had no effect on society.
Enter Antifa, now the far right groups have enemies on the ground to engage with, who make them look reasonable.

Antifa almost come across as an organisation (or non organisation) that was custom built to legitimise far right groups, defending them and their actions is pathetic, and those doing so demonstrably lack the most rudimentary level of critical thinking, it boils down to "my group versus the other group", well here's a thought, stop identifying yourself with groups that don't deserve your affiliation, on either end of the political spectrum, grow up, cop on and think for yourself.