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Getting quicker

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  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Fx Royale


    Not sure if they are getting quicker dropped in applications on the 7/9 got letter in post the other day that they have received my application on the 19/10 and I will have communication on or before the 19/1/20 6 weeks sitting on a desk somewhere


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    What makes me laugh (sarcastically) is there are notices being sent around by An Gardaí and the regional game clubs for gun owners to submit their renewals in a timely manner because due to incomplete renewals AGS staff are backlogged trying to contact the applicants for the remaining info.

    Here is why i laugh.

    Granted some people will forget to attach something, but in the cases of FCRs they were designed to be be idiot proof. You are meant to sign it, attach a photo and once nothing on the form has changed from your last license you send it back as is, otherwise you correct the info and still send it back. The problem is what is being asked for. Information outside the purview of the FCR or the renewal/re-application process, and to compound that weeks go by between when the forms are submitted to when they are acted on by AGS.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Fx Royale


    Cass wrote: »
    What makes me laugh (sarcastically) is there are notices being sent around by An Gardaí and the regional game clubs for gun owners to submit their renewals in a timely manner because due to incomplete renewals AGS staff are backlogged trying to contact the applicants for the remaining info.

    Here is why i laugh.

    Granted some people will forget to attach something, but in the cases of FCRs they were designed to be be idiot proof. You are meant to sign it, attach a photo and once nothing on the form has changed from your last license you send it back as is, otherwise you correct the info and still send it back. The problem is what is being asked for. Information outside the purview of the FCR or the renewal/re-application process, and to compound that weeks go by between when the forms are submitted to when they are acted on by AGS.
    So the “3 months” that they have to process the application does it start from the time they put it on pulse or from the time you submit it???
    I have a signed letter from on Garda of who I handed the application into as I was sick of “lost” paperwork so I have time date and badge number of gaurd


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Fx Royale wrote: »
    So the “3 months” that they have to process the application does it start from the time they put it on pulse or from the time you submit it???

    My understanding is it starts from when you submit the application however that is our [the shooting community's] view. The real world time frame is from when its processed which includes adding it to PULSE.

    Its for this reason AGS can claim a processing within the 3 month time limit rate of 98%.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭ tikkamark


    My missus applied for a o/u back in September and she’s not heard a peep back since.The system is a mess it’s almost laughable,I do feel for firearms dealers trying to make a living in this country!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    tikkamark wrote: »
    My missus applied for a o/u back in September and she’s not heard a peep back since.The system is a mess it’s almost laughable,I do feel for firearms dealers trying to make a living in this country!

    Is that where you live now Mark or in your old district? They’re still on a weeks rather than months timescale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭ Sika98k


    tikkamark wrote: »
    My missus applied for a o/u back in September and she’s not heard a peep back since.The system is a mess it’s almost laughable,I do feel for firearms dealers trying to make a living in this country!


    Was that September 2018 or 2019 ? September 2019 I would not be unduly concerned. 2018....... I would already have been sitting on the doorstep of the Garda Station.

    A while back I was getting nowhere. In desperation I printed off all my mobile phone bills and highlighted the amount of times I had rung, unsuccessfully, the station trying to contact the firearms officer. 27 calls.
    A short letter enclosing my copied bills asking for something to be done or I would move it up a couple of paygrades to the Cig resulted in a grant letter in 4 days.

    However here I am now waiting 5 months for a renewal. Not a dicky bird, not an acknowledgement of my application being received. I feel that we are treated with a total lack of respect. Which I might add as I quite enjoy my “chats” with my FO. When I finally get to meet him, I bring the biscuits and we get on grand.
    The problem is it generally requires me writing a stroppy letter to someone who when we’re face to face are quite convivial to each other.

    But the system sucks. Back in the day when they overhauled the licensing system it was suggested that similarly to the U.K. and the North we had shotgun certificates and firearms certificates, aka SGC and FAC. great system, it works.
    It was knocked on the head by some Department of AGS. Lack of traceability was an issue. Bo****ks !
    So with our current system every bit of information on an application has to be put onto Pulse and repeated for each and every firearm owned by an individual. What a waste of time and resources!
    A woman from Cork runs the firearms licensing unit in the PSNI. Pity she doesn't get a job down here. It’s not perfect but it’s a lot better than it was. One to ones done on line at a RFD’s premises. Like for like sales/purchases in designated caliber bands completed at the RFD’s, rim fires are one band, 22 centre fires are another,, etc etc.
    So maybe you guys would get your act together and stop treating us like secondhand citizens. Rant over.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭ oldgit1897


    I think its a fact that the guards don't want to do firearms licencing, but they don't want anyone else to do it either. Why not the German system ? A civilian staffed office that has the power to access police/criminal/mental health records, and the police themselves have very little to do with it. But if we had that system, the guards would lose the power to be vindictive pains in the arse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭ tikkamark


    Is that where you live now Mark or in your old district? They’re still on a weeks rather than months timescale.

    It’s in my current district Steve if it was the old there actually not too bad


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭ tikkamark


    Sika98k wrote: »
    Was that September 2018 or 2019 ? September 2019 I would not be unduly concerned. 2018....... I would already have been sitting on the doorstep of the Garda Station.

    A while back I was getting nowhere. In desperation I printed off all my mobile phone bills and highlighted the amount of times I had rung, unsuccessfully, the station trying to contact the firearms officer. 27 calls.
    A short letter enclosing my copied bills asking for something to be done or I would move it up a couple of paygrades to the Cig resulted in a grant letter in 4 days.

    However here I am now waiting 5 months for a renewal. Not a dicky bird, not an acknowledgement of my application being received. I feel that we are treated with a total lack of respect. Which I might add as I quite enjoy my “chats” with my FO. When I finally get to meet him, I bring the biscuits and we get on grand.
    The problem is it generally requires me writing a stroppy letter to someone who when we’re face to face are quite convivial to each other.

    But the system sucks. Back in the day when they overhauled the licensing system it was suggested that similarly to the U.K. and the North we had shotgun certificates and firearms certificates, aka SGC and FAC. great system, it works.
    It was knocked on the head by some Department of AGS. Lack of traceability was an issue. Bo****ks !
    So with our current system every bit of information on an application has to be put onto Pulse and repeated for each and every firearm owned by an individual. What a waste of time and resources!
    A woman from Cork runs the firearms licensing unit in the PSNI. Pity she doesn't get a job down here. It’s not perfect but it’s a lot better than it was. One to ones done on line at a RFD’s premises. Like for like sales/purchases in designated caliber bands completed at the RFD’s, rim fires are one band, 22 centre fires are another,, etc etc.
    So maybe you guys would get your act together and stop treating us like secondhand citizens. Rant over.
    It was September 2019 sika it’s still a pain in the arse it’s the bare faced lies that pisses me off,each and everytime she rings they have a new story on the issue!How some stations can get a cert processed in 2 weeks and another 20km up the road can take 6 months.....a complete joke.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    @tikkamark Any word on your OH licence? Did the grant letter arrive yet?

    Are the main delays just with new applications or are parts of the country just really bad for waiting times?

    Where are the worse wait times? Wicklow, Dublin?

    I take it that ALL applications, whether they are New, Re-newels or Substitutions are all thrown into the same pile. They should be split. Preference should be Re-newels, as you risk hundreds of firearms around the country being held illegally. Second should be Subs, you already have a licence and are recorded on the systems. New applications should take a little longer but nothing crazy.

    Realistically Re-newels and Subs should be back within 14 days. New Apps should be back no latter than 4 weeks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭ tikkamark


    ZiabR wrote: »
    @tikkamark Any word on your OH licence? Did the grant letter arrive yet?

    Are the main delays just with new applications or are parts of the country just really bad for waiting times?

    Where are the worse wait times? Wicklow, Dublin?

    I take it that ALL applications, whether they are New, Re-newels or Substitutions are all thrown into the same pile. They should be split. Preference should be Re-newels, as you risk hundreds of firearms around the country being held illegally. Second should be Subs, you already have a licence and are recorded on the systems. New applications should take a little longer but nothing crazy.

    Realistically Re-newels and Subs should be back within 14 days. New Apps should be back no latter than 4 weeks.
    No still not a peep in the post about it,it’s coming up on its 3 months timeframe that legally they should have had made some contact.
    It’s looking like the nargc will have to get involved with there solicitor to get something done.
    She rang the firearms officer about 2 weeks ago now and his response was are you in a panic and could you wait another month!!!Another Gaurd tried to make a seer of her and how long she was waiting and said sure that could be another 3 months.
    It’s actually laughable at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Disgraceful carry on. I would do up a letter for the super and/or request a meeting. I would not be willing to accept that bullsh*t.


  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭ Croohur1


    ZiabR wrote: »
    @tikkamark Any word on your OH licence? Did the grant letter arrive yet?

    Are the main delays just with new applications or are parts of the country just really bad for waiting times?

    Where are the worse wait times? Wicklow, Dublin?

    I am in South Wicklow and a family member put in their application in late September. 3 weeks later it was processed! I hear a civilian is now processing them for Wicklow HQ and things are flying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Croohur1 wrote: »
    I am in South Wicklow and a family member put in their application in late September. 3 weeks later it was processed! I hear a civilian is now processing them for Wicklow HQ and things are flying.

    That is correct, 99% of stations have civilians processing forms and inputting data. I know that there are 3 women in my local station that are now processing the applications once they have been signed off by the super or garda.

    The only problem is that these people for the most part dont understand firearms or what is involved with them and this can result in mistakes. My neighbourhood garda told me of a case where a substitution was submitted. When the new licence was received a few weeks later, it had the original firearm on it and not the new serial. Turns out the civilian didnt read the form as a sub and just inputted the same details again. Person in question had to resubmit and wait a few more weeks to get another licence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭ tikkamark


    Croohur1 wrote: »
    I am in South Wicklow and a family member put in their application in late September. 3 weeks later it was processed! I hear a civilian is now processing them for Wicklow HQ and things are flying.
    I know well.....a mate of mine in a different district had his new side by side processed in 2 weeks.
    The big problem I find is that different stations have far too much control with nobody in power over there actions so if they feel like it they will leave an application happily sitting in a drawer as long as they feel like!
    If it was a private sector job and you decided you didn’t feel arsed doing it you would obviously get the boot fairly lively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    tikkamark wrote: »
    I know well.....a mate of mine in a different district had his new side by side processed in 2 weeks.
    The big problem I find is that different stations have far too much control with nobody in power over there actions so if they feel like it they will leave an application happily sitting in a drawer as long as they feel like!
    If it was a private sector job and you decided you didn’t feel arsed doing it you would obviously get the boot fairly lively.

    Not too sure about the private sector being much better. The biggest advocates of privatisation, the banks, had to be nationalised in all but name due to their superb competency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Not too sure about the private sector being much better. The biggest advocates of privatisation, the banks, had to be nationalised in all but name due to their superb competency.

    They really should centralise the application process. Setup a central office in a County that is responsible for the processing of ALL firearms applications. Stations are given a new mandate that states once an application is received it must be processed within 14 days for a new application and 7 days for a Substitution or Renewal. Once processed, they hand it off to the new central office where 10 civilian staff are in-charge of processing the information and sending the granted letters or new licences to the applicant.

    This way, applications are not left piled in a station and the onus for information processing is not left with the Gards. I should also point out that this new central office is public facing and are available to receive queries from the applicants.

    The process would be fully traceable and it would result in happier applicants and Gards. It would take a few months to clear the backlogs but once up and running things would be handled much faster.

    "PS... I have just woken up from a dream"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭ oldgit1897


    Not too sure about the private sector being much better. The biggest advocates of privatisation, the banks, had to be nationalised in all but name due to their superb competency.

    The banks were nationalised because the Irish people and government would not heed the warnings that the property market was overheating, and the banks were too greedy too. Remember good oul Bertie telling people who were preaching caution that they should go hang themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig


    Just double checking.

    So if you have 2 licences for say a .22 and both licences have say 500 ammo limit - you are entitled to be in possession of 1000 rounds total?

    Thanks


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,511 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Peppa Cig wrote: »
    Just double checking.

    So if you have 2 licences for say a .22 and both licences have say 500 ammo limit - you are entitled to be in possession of 1000 rounds total?

    Thanks

    That's my understanding. Open to correction though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭ JohnFitz2332


    Peppa Cig wrote: »
    Just double checking.

    So if you have 2 licences for say a .22 and both licences have say 500 ammo limit - you are entitled to be in possession of 1000 rounds total?

    Thanks

    Yes


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,431 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Absolutely...

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Anyone else recently received their Grant letter, Renewal Grant Letter or Sub in the past 2-3 weeks? How long were you waiting? Are things moving any better now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭ The pigeon man


    I'm waiting over three months. Was hoping to do a bit of shooting over Christmas but it looks unlikely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    I'm waiting over three months. Was hoping to do a bit of shooting over Christmas but it looks unlikely.

    For a new Application or a Sub? What province? What kind of Firearm?


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Gorgeousgeorge


    Waiting over a month on a sub for a shotgun. Beretta a400 to new beretta a400. Couldn't be easier


  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭ The pigeon man


    ZiabR wrote: »
    For a new Application or a Sub? What province? What kind of Firearm?

    It's a new application for a 223 but I have many other firearms. In Leinster region.

    You never know exactly what causes the delay. possibly the silencer? Because hill walkers out after dark might not hear the shots while I'm foxing?


    I've heard less coherent logic from Gardaí relating to firearms licensing


  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭ Sika98k


    Received my grant letter. After submitting the paperwork 8 months ago. And the freaking licence is backdated to when the old one expired.
    Explain that ? Valid for 3 years ! Fat lot of good that is when 6 months have already passed with your firearm sitting in an RFD’s strong room.
    It’s finger trouble. Once I started making very vocal noises the wheels reluctantly started turning.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Sika98k wrote: »
    Received my grant letter. After submitting the paperwork 8 months ago. And the freaking licence is backdated to when the old one expired.
    Explain that ? Valid for 3 years ! Fat lot of good that is when 6 months have already passed with your firearm sitting in an RFD’s strong room.
    It’s finger trouble. Once I started making very vocal noises the wheels reluctantly started turning.

    8 months seems absolutely crazy. How did you get the wheels turning? Meeting with the station? Or just constant phone calls?


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