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Getting quicker

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Waiting over a month on a sub for a shotgun. Beretta a400 to new beretta a400. Couldn't be easier

    Same, well its a O/U 12G swap. So its a like for like but not the same manufacturer. Into week 4 now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    How long does it take to enter details into the pulse system ? I was told years ago it over an hour, which is why no one in stations want to do it, its too long winded and tedious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭ Sika98k


    ZiabR wrote: »
    8 months seems absolutely crazy. How did you get the wheels turning? Meeting with the station? Or just constant phone calls?

    How did I get the wheels turning ? Screamed and shouted, threw all my toys out of the pram in front of the station !
    Seriously though, asked to have my EFP updated. I had one rifle license still current. Constant phone calls is a good idea. 6 years ago (same story) I sent in a copy of 3 months of phone bills outlining 27 phone calls to the station and no reply, a comment that it would next go to the Cig drew a rapid response in a positive manner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    tudderone wrote: »
    How long does it take to enter details into the pulse system ? I was told years ago it over an hour, which is why no one in stations want to do it, its too long winded and tedious.

    Its not a straight forward process though.

    1) You hand in your application which a standard Garda must go through and ensure that all information has been entered correctly. Once they are happy, they sign, date and stamp the form.

    2) It is dropped on the superintendents desk and they must sign off and stamp the form to approve the application.

    3) Once the super has signed the application it would have normally gone back to a Garda to be entered into pulse, but this process has changed. It is now entered into pulse by civilian staff. These civilian staff look after everything from firearm applications to Garda vetting applications to the Garda information Centre and about another 7 roles. So they are busy people.

    4) Once they have entered your application into pulse it gets fed into a central database and the grant letter OR licence is printed in Dublin and then posted from Dublin to the applicant.

    All in all, your application or substitution hits approx 4-5 different people before you receive it. This is why they take so long and it all shows just how broken and over complicated the process is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Sika98k wrote: »
    How did I get the wheels turning ? Screamed and shouted, threw all my toys out of the pram in front of the station !
    Seriously though, asked to have my EFP updated. I had one rifle license still current. Constant phone calls is a good idea. 6 years ago (same story) I sent in a copy of 3 months of phone bills outlining 27 phone calls to the station and no reply, a comment that it would next go to the Cig drew a rapid response in a positive manner.

    You have been dealing with the same station for the past 10+ years? I don't understand how it is acceptable to have a renewal take 8 months? We all know that once your licence expires that you are legally in possession of an unlicensed firearm. Now, normally you should take your firearm to an RFD and have them store it until your licence renewal is granted.

    BUT, here is the thing. If you live a good distance from an RFD, 40-50km, then I would refuse to put an unlicensed firearm into my car and drive it to the RFD. Alot of things can happen on a 40-50km journey. I would feel much happier leaving it locked in my gun safe and arranging a meeting with my stations super or garda to explain the situation and to get the renewal signed off.

    We have been told to make sure we are submitting our renewals well in advance to allow time for them to be approved. I believe the guidelines are 3 months. If we the applicants are doing everything by the book, it is about time that the Garda do their part and show some respect for the law abiding side of the firearms industry. 8 months is almost 3 times the standard wait time for a renewal.

    Maybe I am being cynical here, but did you have a run in with a Gard in the past? What reason did they give to explain the delay?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭ alanmc


    ZiabR wrote: »
    Its not a straight forward process though.

    1) You hand in your application which a standard Garda must go through and ensure that all information has been entered correctly. Once they are happy, they sign, date and stamp the form.

    2) It is dropped on the superintendents desk and they must sign off and stamp the form to approve the application.

    3) Once the super has signed the application it would have normally gone back to a Garda to be entered into pulse, but this process has changed. It is now entered into pulse by civilian staff. These civilian staff look after everything from firearm applications to Garda vetting applications to the Garda information Centre and about another 7 roles. So they are busy people.

    4) Once they have entered your application into pulse it gets fed into a central database and the grant letter OR licence is printed in Dublin and then posted from Dublin to the applicant.

    All in all, your application or substitution hits approx 4-5 different people before you receive it. This is why they take so long and it all shows just how broken and over complicated the process is.

    All of that sounds reasonable.

    However, it's part 1 that seems to take the most time. My last new application was stuck in part 1 for 12 weeks. Once it got to the Supers office it seemed to trundle along at a right old pace.

    I understand that these Sergeants are busy doing other real police related work and doing the FCA1 admin tasks are very low on their priority of things to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    alanmc wrote: »
    However, it's part 1 that seems to take the most time. My last new application was stuck in part 1 for 12 weeks.

    The solution to this one is easy and it is what I did with my Application and Substitutions. You ask the Guard to sign and stamp the form in front of you in the station. If questioned why, you state that you want to make sure you have entered everything correctly and that the Guard is happy with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭ alanmc


    ZiabR wrote: »
    The solution to this one is easy and it is what I did with my Application and Substitutions. You ask the Guard to sign and stamp the form in front of you in the station. If questioned why, you state that you want to make sure you have entered everything correctly and that the Guard is happy with it.

    But the Garda at the desk doesn't send it straight to the Super. The FO has to breathe on it somewhat before it gets to the Supers office. I've been lucky once where the FO was just passing when I was handing in an application. But other than that, it just goes in his/her in-tray and sits there for a potentially long time.

    I had a conversation with the FO the last time when my application was at the 3 month time limit. He was adamant that the 3 month clock only starts when it leaves his desk and makes its merry way upstairs and that there was no limit on how long it could sit in his in-tray. This is clearly a measure to fudge the statistics.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    3 months sitting in a tray. Sorry I wouldn't be accepting that. I would assume after the 3 months that my application has been denied (since this is the max time limit) and I would be looking to appeal it. For far to long, applicants have been given the run around and fed bullsh*t excuses as to why applications take so long. We are doing nothing wrong and infact, we are making the effort to do everything by the book. Yet we are punished for conforming to the law.

    Its just not good enough.

    EDIT - What part of the country are you in?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭ alanmc


    Well I only found this out when I went in after 11 weeks or so. I kicked up a fuss then. And it was done just inside the 3 month deadline .... just.

    I agree with you, it's not good enough. But I'm not prepared to start causing a riot until they fail to decide on my application in time. They have the 3 months to do it, so I'll give them that leeway. And I'm not swallowing the "clock only starts when it reaches the Supers office". It makes very little sense.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭ Sika98k


    ZiabR wrote: »
    You have been dealing with the same station for the past 10+ years? I don't understand how it is acceptable to have a renewal take 8 months? We all know that once your licence expires that you are legally in possession of an unlicensed firearm. Now, normally you should take your firearm to an RFD and have them store it until your licence renewal is granted.

    I did exactly that. That’s my major gripe. My firearms sat in a strong room and my licences were backdated so that theoretically as I see it they were done in time. I was denied the use of them but still had to stump up the €€s for my 3 year licence which expires in 21/2 years .

    Maybe I am being cynical here, but did you have a run in with a Gard in the past? What reason did they give to explain the delay?
    No, I get on quite well with him. Reason ? No reason. No apology. I’ve considered writing to the Superintendent but as a possibly wiser friend said “ an ounce of grief to AGS will bring a ton of it back on you”.


  • Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭ freddieot


    Sometimes, not always, it's the sheer stupidity of the system that causes delays. The FO has to work with that as well and I've sensed my own local guys get just as pissed off with it as I have from time to time when things went 'slowly'.

    Complaining to the Super (I've done it once when it was really warranted and I perceived it to be personal - but it actually was not vindictive, just admin nonsense) is to be avoided as it just creates tension with the people you have to deal with on a regular basis, often as I've said, they are also pissed off with some part of the system. You may need their help again with something so don't burn bridges unless really necessary.

    That said, sometimes it's unavoidable but I generally would not complain unless I thought I was being singled out or picked on. By the way as many of you know I've spent days in court when it was necessary so I'm not saying let them away with everything and anything.

    My shortest renewal = one week (308), longest 3months (.40)
    Shortest new app = one week (.40),
    Longest 5.5 months (12g) (yes I know the limit is 3 but I knew it was coming - just ***ked up in transit \ production by the system). I suppose I could have demanded a refusal letter in that case as it was beyond the 3 months and went to court but I waited the extra few weeks for the system to go through the motions.

    We need the system changed. We all know that but in fairness let's not take a punish the messenger approach and start roasting the FO or ordinary Guards that are just as irritated as we are. Many of them are only given a few hours a weeks to sort our firearms issues and are working in other units the rest of the time. Most think it's ludicrous nonsense that we have to wait months to renew certs or for someone with a 308 to wait months for an additional .22, 243 or something like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,902 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    Slightly OT...
    But!
    Please tell me I'm not the only who for a split second when they see this thread pop up on the friend page...

    Thinks it's about quick draw? Or some crazy Irish 3 gun proposal?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    banie01 wrote: »
    Slightly OT...
    But!
    Please tell me I'm not the only who for a split second when they see this thread pop up on the friend page...

    Thinks it's about quick draw? Or some crazy Irish 3 gun proposal?

    I am not sure what you mean? Can you clarify?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    The above posts make for interesting reading. I am not for one minute suggesting that I am going to complain. I am only in week 4 of a like for like 12g sub. Should it be done by now? Yes. Am I going to kick up a fuss that it's not done? No.

    I will ask the guard who is looking after it for me for an update, but that's only because I know them. I wouldn't ask otherwise.

    I agree, that if you start complaining and threatening AGS, it is likely to cause problems down the line. I have a one gun licence and have no intention of ever owning more than one gun. My sport is OT and Sporting Clay so the one gun is all I need. My main gripe is that I am now without a gun at all and cant shoot over the holidays. It sucks, but it is what it is.

    The likelihood of anything happening next week is slim given its the last week before xmas. Fingers crossed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Gorgeousgeorge


    ZiabR wrote: »
    The above posts make for interesting reading. I am not for one minute suggesting that I am going to complain. I am only in week 4 of a like for like 12g sub. Should it be done by now? Yes. Am I going to kick up a fuss that it's not done? No.

    I will ask the guard who is looking after it for me for an update, but that's only because I know them. I wouldn't ask otherwise.

    I agree, that if you start complaining and threatening AGS, it is likely to cause problems down the line. I have a one gun licence and have no intention of ever owning more than one gun. My sport is OT and Sporting Clay so the one gun is all I need. My main gripe is that I am now without a gun at all and cant shoot over the holidays. It sucks, but it is what it is.

    The likelihood of anything happening next week is slim given its the last week before xmas. Fingers crossed.

    Olympic trap and sporting Clay's?? Def need 2 different guns. Also have one for skeet just in case. More the merrier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Olympic trap and sporting Clay's?? Def need 2 different guns. Also have one for skeet just in case. More the merrier.

    Honestly, I couldn't justify buying a second gun. I shoot 95% Sporting, and only dabble in a little OT with my brother sometimes. 5% of my shooting time for me wouldn't equate to purchasing a gun for OT.

    That being said, you are right, and if I was to get into OT a little more then buying a second gun would be the way to go. For now, I will make do with the one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭ The pigeon man


    I'll always wonder about the good reason for having multiple firearms that serve the same purpose.

    I have two very similar shotguns for the same purpose. The reason I gave for the second one was in case of the first one breaking down or needing maintenance. It also turns out that having the two is advantageous if there are delays with licensing, so I'll have at least one shotgun in my possession.


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Gorgeousgeorge


    I'll always wonder about the good reason for having multiple firearms that serve the same purpose.

    I have two very similar shotguns for the same purpose. The reason I gave for the second one was in case of the first one breaking down or needing maintenance. It also turns out that having the two is advantageous if there are delays with licensing, so I'll have at least one shotgun in my possession.

    I was only messing a couple of posts up but the general jist would be different clay games require different shotguns. 26 inch open choke for skeet, 30 inch mc for sporting and a big aul 32 inch fixed choke trap gun for abt/dtl/ot. Alk the above have different stock dimensions etc sk that helps


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,902 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    ZiabR wrote: »
    I am not sure what you mean? Can you clarify?

    Both are shooting disciplines where being quick is an advantage.
    "Getting quicker" is the title of the thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭ The pigeon man


    banie01 wrote: »
    Both are shooting disciplines where being quick is an advantage.
    "Getting quicker" is the title of the thread.

    We are talking about how the processing time for firearms license applications has gotten quicker.

    For me it has been very slow. Over three months from my application to the granting of the license.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    We are talking about how the processing time for firearms license applications has gotten quicker.

    For me it has been very slow. Over three months from my application to the granting of the license.

    What really confuses me is the following. Delays with Licencing and Applications were primarily down to "normal" guards or the FO only been given a few hours a week to sort application etc. Because the guards were doing more than looking after the firearms side of things, wait times could be either fast or long, with no consistency. Often firearms applications were dropped down the pecking order.

    The solution was to take all guards off desk duty and put them back onto the road due to guard numbers being so low. Then a civilian staff were hired to look after all data input and application processing. You would think that hiring a team of people to just focus on data processing would mean that wait times would plummet. The exact opposite seems to have happened.

    Wait times are now higher than before which makes no sense whatsoever. It is bonkers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    Anyone get their licence or sub in the past 2-3 weeks? Notice any differences with the wait times?


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Gorgeousgeorge


    ZiabR wrote: »
    Anyone get their licence or sub in the past 2-3 weeks? Notice any differences with the wait times?

    got one on the 23rd. chap i sold a gun to privately has been waiting for his sub 9 weeks now. tullamore i believe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    got one on the 23rd. chap i sold a gun to privately has been waiting for his sub 9 weeks now. tullamore i believe.

    The one you got on the 23rd, was that a sub or new? And how long were you waiting for it? I am into week 6 I believe of a like for like sub.

    After forking out for my annual club membership, insurance and competition entries and I still have no gun to shoot. Frustrating to say the least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Gorgeousgeorge


    ZiabR wrote: »
    The one you got on the 23rd, was that a sub or new? And how long were you waiting for it? I am into week 6 I believe of a like for like sub.

    After forking out for my annual club membership, insurance and competition entries and I still have no gun to shoot. Frustrating to say the least.

    it was a substitute, 6 weeks in total. i fully understand and with a lot of the winter leagues in balheary courtlough and balivor kicking off again this weekend you are at a major loss of shooting time. i dont know where the hold up is but for me at least its not with the fo or the super as i know for a fact that the sub was processed and signed off within a week/10 days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    it was a substitute, 6 weeks in total. i fully understand and with a lot of the winter leagues in balheary courtlough and balivor kicking off again this weekend you are at a major loss of shooting time. i dont know where the hold up is but for me at least its not with the fo or the super as i know for a fact that the sub was processed and signed off within a week/10 days.

    Tell me about it, I was really hoping to get out over Xmas to practice with the new gun before the winter league started etc. I 100% agree with you about the hold up. I too know for a fact that its not with the FO or the Super. The FO signed off on my application there and then and passed it to the Super who had it signed within 2 weeks. The delay is with the processing of the form on pulse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭ EoghanS


    ZiabR wrote: »
    The one you got on the 23rd, was that a sub or new? And how long were you waiting for it? I am into week 6 I believe of a like for like sub.

    After forking out for my annual club membership, insurance and competition entries and I still have no gun to shoot. Frustrating to say the least.

    Im in the same boat (sort of) club fees due next 2-3 weeks and no word regarding my app.


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭ EoghanS


    ZiabR wrote: »
    The one you got on the 23rd, was that a sub or new? And how long were you waiting for it? I am into week 6 I believe of a like for like sub.

    After forking out for my annual club membership, insurance and competition entries and I still have no gun to shoot. Frustrating to say the least.

    Im in the same boat (sort of) club fees due next 2-3 weeks and no word regarding my app. :mad:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ ZiabR


    EoghanS wrote: »
    Im in the same boat (sort of) club fees due next 2-3 weeks and no word regarding my app. :mad:

    A new application and your first or a sub?

    New applications can take a little longer, 6-10 weeks, its the sub wait times that make no sense whatsoever.


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