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Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

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    #722
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,991 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    No. Children should know and respect people, including trans people as individuals when they come across them, not as causes that everything has to resolve around especially given their tiny numbers.
    But you just saud children shouldnt know about trans issues at all which suggests you want an education system that hides their existence away.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #723
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Why not just abolish the uniform altogether and let them be whoever they want to be.


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    #724
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,991 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Surely it should be a more or less non issue until puberty??


    Im indifferent to this rule,their kidz let em wear what they want....ffs theyll grow up quick enough

    It is already an issue there are many children who identify as transgender in Ireland already. The Minister even wants law reform on it.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/ireland-s-trans-children-i-didn-t-know-what-trans-meant-i-just-felt-that-i-was-a-woman-1.3636882?mode=amp

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/ireland-s-transgender-children-1.2171777?mode=amp

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/healthandlife/identity-politics-why-transgender-children-need-legal-recognition-871956.html

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #725
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    But you just saud children shouldnt know about trans issues at all which suggests you want an education system that hides their existence away.

    I'm not suggesting hiding anybody away. I just don't think their numbers merits giving priority to them. Doesn't seem to matter how many girls are uncomfortable sharing toilets with boys so long as a one in the blue moon trans kid, who's more a kid than a trans kid at that age, is the one that's looked after. The school may not even have such a kid but everyone must kowtow to them anyway and traipse off to the unisex bathrooms just in case like.


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    #726
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    It is already an issue there are many children who identify as transgender in Ireland already. The Minister even wants law reform on it.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/ireland-s-trans-children-i-didn-t-know-what-trans-meant-i-just-felt-that-i-was-a-woman-1.3636882?mode=amp

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/ireland-s-transgender-children-1.2171777?mode=amp

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/healthandlife/identity-politics-why-transgender-children-need-legal-recognition-871956.html

    Tbh the laws there seem relatively ok??

    Whats the need for reform,dont see whats wrong with needing a heavy medical involvement in the process?


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    #727
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    SirGerryAdams wrote: »
    The modern world is all about telling kids whatever they think is ok. You're not allowed tell them they're wrong anymore.

    A boy could come out and say he wants to be a tree and the modern reaction is "that's fine! You can be a tree!". In reality it should be "A tree is an inanimate object and you are not a tree."

    Kids are impressionable as ****. If a mother told her son as a child that he's a girl, he'd eventually believe it.

    Same with sports days/football games with no winners or losers. There is a generation of pansies being reared that will have no idea how to deal with the real world.


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    #728
    Nikki Sixx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Nikki Sixx


    They need to get rid of the board of management in this school, utter gobsh1tes.


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    #729
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Same with sports days/football games with no winners or losers. There is a generation of pansies being reared that will have no idea how to deal with the real world.


    Those games tend to be for very young kids with the goal of getting them interested in the sport and exercise in general. I've never heard of them past primary school.


    Why is it the same people who are demanding "let kids be kids" are the ones insisting kids shouldn't be allowed wear different clothes or play a game with out forcing competition on them?


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    #730
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Thats bizarre. You want to basically hide the existence of trans people and pretend to children they dont exist.

    As a percentage of the Irish population they barely do exist. It's like 0.001% of the population or something.


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    #731
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Same with sports days/football games with no winners or losers. There is a generation of pansies being reared that will have no idea how to deal with the real world.

    What's a pansie?


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    #732
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Those games tend to be for very young kids with the goal of getting them interested in the sport and exercise in general. I've never heard of them past primary school.


    Why is it the same people who are demanding "let kids be kids" are the ones insisting kids shouldn't be allowed wear different clothes or play a game with out forcing competition on them?

    Competition gets you interested in sports. Not participation medals. On any school playground you'll see kids racing each other, playing basketball or football to win. Competitiveness is ingrained in people. Whats the point in playing, if not to win.


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    #733
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    klaaaz wrote: »
    What's a pansie?

    a weak, effeminate, and often cowardly man.


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    #734
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    a weak, effeminate, and often cowardly man.

    So according to you anyone who is effeminate is a weak coward, no wonder men's health is in the doldrums trying to meet that strict criteria of masculinity.


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    #735
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    klaaaz wrote: »
    So according to you anyone who is effeminate is a weak coward, no wonder men's health is in the doldrums trying to meet that strict criteria of masculinity.

    No, thats according to the first definition of pansie that came up on google. It also doesn't say that anyone who is effeminate is a weak coward. But you know that and just wanted to twist it to your definition. Well done. :rolleyes:


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    #736
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Suckit wrote: »
    Why not just abolish the uniform altogether and let them be whoever they want to be.
    Getting rid of uniforms altogether is a different arguement. The wearing of uniforms at schools has benefits. Its a leveller and greatly reduces stress levels for pupils in schools.

    In the real world of work, adults cannot wear what they want. If a hairy legged man turned up to work in a skirt and heels he would be immediately sent home from most modern workplaces. Most workplaces have some kind of uniform or at least guidelines on what is acceptable to wear. Children wearing uniforms prepares them for this.


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    #737
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Competition gets you interested in sports. Not participation medals. On any school playground you'll see kids racing each other, playing basketball or football to win. Competitiveness is ingrained in people. Whats the point in playing, if not to win.


    Fun? While you're looking up words you should look that up to.


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    #738
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    No, thats according to the first definition of pansie that came up on google. It also doesn't say that anyone who is effeminate is a weak coward. But you know that and just wanted to twist it to your definition. Well done. :rolleyes:

    So a pansie is not a weak coward after all, just an effeminate person. What's wrong about a person being effeminate?


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    #739
    happydan
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭happydan


    klaaaz wrote: »
    So a pansie is not a weak coward after all, just an effeminate person. What's wrong about a person being effeminate?

    nothing, if they are feminine


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    #740
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,991 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    klaaaz wrote: »
    What's a pansie?

    A homophobic term designed to shame men or boys who display any feminine traits

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #741
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,991 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I'm not suggesting hiding anybody away. I just don't think their numbers merits giving priority to them. Doesn't seem to matter how many girls are uncomfortable sharing toilets with boys so long as a one in the blue moon trans kid, who's more a kid than a trans kid at that age, is the one that's looked after. The school may not even have such a kid but everyone must kowtow to them anyway and traipse off to the unisex bathrooms just in case like.

    Acknowledging and discussing the existence of trans people is hardly about giving priority. Why are you suggesting trans children dont exist?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #742
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Why are you suggesting trans children dont exist?

    She isn't. Re-read her post.

    She's saying they're rare. Which is true.


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    #743
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Nikki Sixx wrote: »
    They need to get rid of the board of management in this school, utter gobsh1tes.

    Apparently they don't though because none of the parents at the school actually have a problem with it, just a few brave anonymous phone callers and a rake of people on boards who don't seem to want to live and let live.


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    #744
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Acknowledging and discussing the existence of trans people is hardly about giving priority. Why are you suggesting trans children dont exist?

    I'm getting a bit sick of the needs of girls, you know she of the many in numbers, being ridden roughshod over because of the needs of the trans persons, you know they of the rare numbers in any school, never mind in primary schools. There is now and always will be far more girls in that or any school that need the privacy of a girls bathroom than there will ever be transpersons but never mind the girls, everything must be changed for the exception or the possibility of the exception. Far better, imo, to let the toilets the way they are and have an additional closed cubicle for anyone that wants to use that.


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    #745
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Fun? While you're looking up words you should look that up to.
    When I was a kid those that didn't make the panel of 25 just stopped playing, a complete lost generation in my eyes that would love to play for fun.


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    #746
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I'm getting a bit sick of the needs of girls, you know she of the many in numbers, being ridden roughshod over because of the needs of the trans persons, you know they of the rare numbers in any school, never mind in primary schools. There is now and always will be far more girls in that or any school that need the privacy of a girls bathroom than there will ever be transpersons but never mind the girls, everything must be changed for the exception or the possibility of the exception. Far better, imo, to let the toilets the way they are and have an additional closed cubicle for anyone that wants to use that.


    From a local paper today:


    yjaAqZA.jpg


    No-one's privacy is being denied them.

    Happy?


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    #747
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I'm getting a bit sick of the needs of girls, you know she of the many in numbers, being ridden roughshod over because of the needs of the trans persons, you know they of the rare numbers in any school, never mind in primary schools. There is now and always will be far more girls in that or any school that need the privacy of a girls bathroom than there will ever be transpersons but never mind the girls, everything must be changed for the exception or the possibility of the exception. Far better, imo, to let the toilets the way they are and have an additional closed cubicle for anyone that wants to use that.

    I don't understand this preciousness over the privacy of womens bathrooms, like you're in a cubicle anyway it is private. it's as private in a cubicle in a large communal bathroom as it is in a single toilet unit. Public toilets are still public toilets. I've seen women go into mens and I've seen men go into womens (with their young daughters) and the sky hasn't fallen in


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    #748
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    B0jangles wrote: »
    From a local paper today:


    yjaAqZA.jpg


    No-one's privacy is being denied them.

    Happy?

    Yeah, that's fairly ok.


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    #749
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Same with sports days/football games with no winners or losers. There is a generation of pansies being reared that will have no idea how to deal with the real world.

    It’s thought that leaving the competition element out of primary school football in other, stronger footballing nations is what helps develop good footballing skills. When the need to win isn’t there, children are more willing to work on developing skills rather than winning at any cost. And when the day comes to compete, they have a good grounding.


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    #750
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,991 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I'm getting a bit sick of the needs of girls, you know she of the many in numbers, being ridden roughshod over because of the needs of the trans persons, you know they of the rare numbers in any school, never mind in primary schools. There is now and always will be far more girls in that or any school that need the privacy of a girls bathroom than there will ever be transpersons but never mind the girls, everything must be changed for the exception or the possibility of the exception. Far better, imo, to let the toilets the way they are and have an additional closed cubicle for anyone that wants to use that.

    Thats ridiculous. You are presenting a case that accomodating the needs of trans pupils take away from other pupils. It doesnt. Anyway yes of course I agree with your suggestion re 3 toilets. Boys/Girls and gender neutral. Great idea.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #751
    happydan
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭happydan


    this time next year perhaps there will be a discussion around how absurd it is that my dog,
    who identifies as gender neutral by the way ( based on its behavior and my super modern progressive attitude) , still has to go in the streets and I have to pick up after him / her / it , when theres a perfectly good gender neutral species neutral jacks down the road. its on the way ... lots of dog owners seem to have blurred lines around animals versus humans already, you know the ones ... act like they gave birth to the thing rather than bought it.


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