Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

Faugheen

Brian? wrote: »

If you're different: shut up about it. That's great advice. Have you any guidelines on which differences you don't want to hear about?

This thread is about to peak any minute now.

Just needs a good ol bit of traveller bashing and we’re laughing.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

Just needs a good ol bit of traveller bashing and we’re laughing.

how would the travellers deal with a young buck who told his folks at 8 he was a girl and needed to wear a skirt?

gwan.

MrFresh

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Out of the 620 posts so far, hormone therapy or any sex change type posts have been completely minimal, probably around 1%, so I think you can let it go unless you want to talk about that?

You still haven't answered my query about your Wonder Woman costume. Do you think your parents should have removed it from you and told you you were wrong to wear women's clothes?

Deleted User wrote: »

how would the travellers deal with a young buck who told his folks at 8 he was a girl and needed to wear a skirt?

gwan.

Ah right, you prefer we act to the same standard as travellers. Good to know.

MrFresh

MrFresh wrote: »

Ah right, you prefer we act to the same standard as travellers. Good to know.

jesus mary and joseph i never for a second intimated that the travellers would have a separate set of standards than """"us"""", whoever you think that latter constituency might enumerate

you want to be more careful, so you do.

My 5 year old grandson overheard this being discussed on the radio on his way home from school the other day.

This is a child who endeared himself to the teachers by taking a stand against bullying in his first week at school.

His response?
" Boys wearing dresses? That's ridiculous!" - in an outraged tone of voice.

I reassured him by telling him he wouldn't have to wear a dress, and he informed me that he wasn't going to, anyway.

We've never discussed gender issues with him. I was very surprised at how strongly he reacted. He seemed to take it as an attack on his identity.

My question is - if a 5 year old reacted that strongly ( and he's a very kind- hearted, easy going child) - how are 12 and 13 year olds going to react when they're undergoing puberty, and asserting their masculinity?

With severe bullying, imho, for the unfortunate lad wearing the dress....

B0jangles

It's honestly amazing to get this insight to what it was like back in the 1920's when women started wearing trousers.

VicMackey1

There is a push to take away mens masculinity because it is "toxic". Just type "men can" into google and read the autocompletes!

MrFresh

Deleted User wrote: »

jesus mary and joseph i never for a second intimated that the travellers would have a separate set of standards than """"us"""", whoever you think that latter constituency might enumerate

you want to be more careful, so you do.

Disingenuous outrage aside, what was your point in raising the issue of travellers.

MrFresh

MrFresh wrote: »

Disingenuous outrage aside, what was your point in raising the issue of travellers.

thread is full of disingenuous outrage

and youd need to ask the poster that raised the question of travellers why they did so.

Mad_maxx

happydan wrote: »

Any 'progressive parent', who has not raised teenagers yet, should just shut up on this topic, and be very thankful their own parents were not so stupid, and had the common sense to treat kids as kids and not pander to their every populist nonsense ideology or phase.

Parent be parents ffs.

There will always be some nut job kids (who will become nut job adults) ... it's always been that way, leave them at it. If you are different, by very definition you are a minority, embrace it ... and shut up.

Indeed, you have a better chance of making it in media or entertainment

victor8600

VicMackey1 wrote: »

There is a push to take away mens masculinity because it is "toxic". Just type "men can" into google and read the autocompletes!

You do know that the Google search auto-complete is personalized? Whatever you get depends on your previous searches and the personal profile Google has on you.

VicMackey1

victor8600 wrote: »

You do know that the Google search auto-complete is personalized? Whatever you get depends on your previous searches and the personal profile Google has on you.

I don't think that is correct! Open to correction though! Maybe someone else can test it.

I type "men can" followed by a space and get

men can have babies
men can get pregnant
men can have babies now
men can have periods
men can cook

victor8600

VicMackey1 wrote: »

men can have babies
men can get pregnant
men can have babies now
men can have periods
men can cook

Ok, I did get those too among other suggestions.

OMM 0000

B0jangles wrote: »

It's honestly amazing to get this insight to what it was like back in the 1920's when women started wearing trousers.

That's not a fair comparison.

No one here is saying adult men cannot wear dresses.

In fact, people have been saying the opposite - when you're an adult, go do whatever you want.

The issue here is these are children being told gender doesn't exist or is a construct. And what makes it doubly worse is it's a tax funded school pushing this agenda.

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Let's pretend the school is really able to stamp out bullying. (It won't be able to, but let's pretend).

Now back to the question I asked:

What do you think is going to happen on his journey to/from school?

If he's like the majority of 4-12 year olds in my area he'll be accompanied door to door by his parents either walking or in the car. I don't know that there are that many kids under the age of 12 in the greater Dublin area who are allowed to take public transport or make their own way to school anymore.

The attitudes in this thread are why any boys who opt to wear a skirt will be bullied. Little kids don't know or care when other kids are "different" or "weird" they learn that from the adults around them. So if the adults around them are saying this idea of boys wearing a skirt is ridiculous, or disgusting or weird or wrong, then kids will hear that, take it on and bully that child. Kids don't lick this stuff off stones.

ohnonotgmail

OMM 0000 wrote: »

And what makes it doubly worse is it's a tax funded school pushing this agenda.

every national and secondary school in the country receives the same amount of tax funding.

Brian?

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

If he's like the majority of 4-12 year olds in my area he'll be accompanied door to door by his parents either walking or in the car. I don't know that there are that many kids under the age of 12 in the greater Dublin area who are allowed to take public transport or make their own way to school anymore.

The attitudes in this thread are why any boys who opt to wear a skirt will be bullied. Little kids don't know or care when other kids are "different" or "weird" they learn that from the adults around them. So if the adults around them are saying this idea of boys wearing a skirt is ridiculous, or disgusting or weird or wrong, then kids will hear that, take it on and bully that child. Kids don't lick this stuff off stones.

I’d like to thank this more than once.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Deleted User wrote: »

My 5 year old grandson overheard this being discussed on the radio on his way home from school the other day.

This is a child who endeared himself to the teachers by taking a stand against bullying in his first week at school.

His response?
" Boys wearing dresses? That's ridiculous!" - in an outraged tone of voice.

I reassured him by telling him he wouldn't have to wear a dress, and he informed me that he wasn't going to, anyway.

We've never discussed gender issues with him. I was very surprised at how strongly he reacted. He seemed to take it as an attack on his identity.

My question is - if a 5 year old reacted that strongly ( and he's a very kind- hearted, easy going child) - how are 12 and 13 year olds going to react when they're undergoing puberty, and asserting their masculinity?

With severe bullying, imho, for the unfortunate lad wearing the dress....

I find that young kids just tend to laugh.

They call things exactly as they see them. They haven't developed social decorum and the ability to tell white lies yet.

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

If he's like the majority of 4-12 year olds in my area he'll be accompanied door to door by his parents either walking or in the car. I don't know that there are that many kids under the age of 12 in the greater Dublin area who are allowed to take public transport or make their own way to school anymore.

The attitudes in this thread are why any boys who opt to wear a skirt will be bullied. Little kids don't know or care when other kids are "different" or "weird" they learn that from the adults around them. So if the adults around them are saying this idea of boys wearing a skirt is ridiculous, or disgusting or weird or wrong, then kids will hear that, take it on and bully that child. Kids don't lick this stuff off stones.

Can you admit the kids are going to get bullied? (Forget for a moment who's to blame for the bullying.)

I feel like some people are bending over backwards to pretend the kids will be grand.

MrFresh

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Can you admit the kids are going to get bullied? (Forget for a moment who's to blame for the bullying.)

I feel like some people are bending over backwards to pretend the kids will be grand.

Where you also against gay adoption for the same reason?

B0jangles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

That's not a fair comparison.

No one here is saying adult men cannot wear dresses.

In fact, people have been saying the opposite - when you're an adult, go do whatever you want.

The issue here is these are children being told gender doesn't exist or is a construct. And what makes it doubly worse is it's a tax funded school pushing this agenda.

Really? I thought the school was just making it possible for the kids to choose whether to wear trousers or a skirt. Are they required to make a declaration about their gender identity as well?

Did you know that up until the late 19th/early 20th century little boys generally wore dresses, sometimes right up til the age of 8?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)

You really should ask youselves why the idea of boys wearing skirts is so disturbing. Society coped with the change from all children wearing dresses, to trousers for boys, skirts for girls, to trousers for boys and girls and skirts for girls only.

I think it can probably cope with trousers and skirts for boys and girls just as easily.

OMM 0000

B0jangles wrote: »

Really? I thought the school was just making it possible for the kids to choose whether to wear trousers or a skirt. Are they required to make a declaration about their gender identity as well?

Did you know that up until the late 19th/early 20th century little boys generally wore dresses, sometimes right up til the age of 8?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)

You really should ask youselves why the idea of boys wearing skirts is so disturbing. Society coped with the change from all children wearing dresses, to trousers for boys, skirts for girls, to trousers for boys and girls and skirts for girls only.

I think it can probably cope with trousers and skirts for boys and girls just as easily.

They're also removing boys and girls toilets so everything will be gender neutral.

This isn't a fashion thing.

B0jangles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

They're also removing boys and girls toilets so everything will be gender neutral.

This isn't a fashion thing.

My own primary school had unisex toilets too, and that's more than a few years ago yet we all managed to survive somehow.

OMM 0000

B0jangles wrote: »

My own primary school had unisex toilets too, and that's more than a few years ago and we all managed to survive somehow.

Was it a large public school which removed boys and girls toilets as part of a gender neutral policy?

B0jangles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Was it a large public school which removed boys and girls toilets as part of a gender neutral policy?

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Can you admit the kids are going to get bullied? (Forget for a moment who's to blame for the bullying.)

I feel like some people are bending over backwards to pretend the kids will be grand.

I mean nobody can say for certain that anything will or won't happen, but I would say based on the bile and disgust being spouted here, then unfortunately there are going to be kids of intolerant parents who will perpetuate the idea that "Timmy is a freak cos he's in a dress" and take that out on poor Timmy.

Nobody is saying the kids will be grand, they're saying that stopping kids being themselves out of the fear of bullying is stupid, kids are who they are and should be allowed to be who they are and schools and parents should come down like a ton of bricks on bullies. There should be a zero tolerance approach taken. It should be make clear to all parents that school is an inclusive and tolerant place and any form of discrimination on the basis of any of the 9 grounds will not be tolerated and if you're not happy to agree to that you may take your child and register them for school somewhere else.

OMM 0000

B0jangles wrote: »

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

So your school had boys and girls toilets, removed them, and told the kids their gender is irrelevant so they should all use the same toilet?

Somehow I think that's quite a bit different from the little school in the middle of nowhere you went to.

MrFresh

B0jangles wrote: »

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

A lot of right wing folk seem to think gender neutral toilets mean you have to expose yourself to other people using the restroom.

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

It should be make clear to all parents that school is an inclusive and tolerant place and any form of discrimination on the basis of any of the 9 grounds will not be tolerated and if you're not happy to agree to that you may take your child and register them for school somewhere else.

Schools already do this.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

B0jangles wrote: »

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

Unisex toilets or changing rooms do have a higher possibility of abuse, although I wouldn’t say that’s a big issue in primary schools.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html