Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

briangriffin

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Give over, they'll use the same toilet as the girls, the same way they do at home they probably won't even notice the difference unless they have someone at home ranting about how it's weird or disgusting. Nobody is going to be standing at the door of the loo going "see now that you use this toilet it means boys can be girls"

I suppose it was more the skirts I was talking about there to be fair.

blade1

Will this new dress code apply to teachers as well?
Can the male teachers turn up wearing skirts?

branie2

Just the kids

AllForIt

Why do traditionally women wear skirts and men don't anyway? I've no idea. There's hardly a physical necessity is there? I mean if anyone should be wearing the skirt it should be the men. More wiggle room. Same for bicycles, it's the mens bar that should be lower.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

AllForIt wrote: »

Why do traditionally women wear skirts and men don't anyway? I've no idea. There's hardly a physical necessity is there? I mean if anyone should be wearing the skirt it should be the men. More wiggle room. Same for bicycles, it's the mens bar that should be lower.

Yes, that never made much sense to me. Although, ahem, it can hurt very badly for women too if a certain spot is hit. I know that from bitter experience. The pain. Christ on a... bike.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That seems like perfectly reasonable parenting; listen the child, give them a chance to work through things, allow them to explore and ensure that they are supported at all time in their decisions.

Absolutely. I can’t imagine having a problem with a child wanting to be the opposite gender. It might be phase, it might be forever. Either way is good. I saw an interview with Bono’s daughter Eve where she said she was fully convinced she was a boy for about a year of her childhood.

My parents are very socially conservative generally. But they always, always defended people who believed they were born the wrong gender. I very starkly remember them arguing that people who felt they were born the wrong gender deserved the same basic respect as everyone else. It has always stayed with me because, believe me, they were and are conservative. Examples: they voted against divorce being legalised in 1995 and were not impressed with my sister moving in with her fella in 2006.

ohnonotgmail

blade1 wrote: »

Will this new dress code apply to teachers as well?
Can the male teachers turn up wearing skirts?

is there anything currently preventing the male teachers from wearing skirts?

happydan

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yes, that never made much sense to me. Although, ahem, it can hurt very badly for women too if a certain spot is hit. I know that from bitter experience. The pain. Christ on a... bike.



Absolutely. I can’t imagine having a problem with a child wanting to be the opposite gender. It might be phase, it might be forever. Either way is good. I saw an interview with Bono’s daughter Eve where she said she was fully convinced she was a boy for about a year of her childhood.

My parents are very socially conservative generally. But they always, always defended people who believed they were born the wrong gender. I very starkly remember them arguing that people who felt they were born the wrong gender deserved the same basic respect as everyone else. It has always stayed with me because, believe me, they were and are conservative. Examples: they voted against divorce being legalised in 1995 and were not impressed with my sister moving in with her fella in 2006.

wow, what an idiot : ) : )

Annasopra

happydan wrote: »

wow, what an idiot : ) : )

Why? For listening to children and respecting them?

jackboy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

is there anything currently preventing the male teachers from wearing skirts?

I don't think that question can be answered until it happens. Cant imagine that there are any written down rules to deal with this.

It would likely depend on the teacher and the skirt. Some fat hairy guy who is deemed odd would probably be unlikely to get away with it. A guy that is deemed cool and does it with some style would probably get away with it.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

But you just saud children shouldnt know about trans issues at all which suggests you want an education system that hides their existence away.

The problem, for me, is that 4 year olds are going to be exposed to trans issues.


That's far too young.


We have gone from hiding anything about sexuality from children, and, in so doing, exposed them to appalling levels of abuse - to introducing sexual issues to them at increasingly young ages.


The reality is that now, kids as young as 12 and 13 are sexually active, and the question needs to be asked "How much of an influence has sex education?", on this issue. Because something is causing this relativly new phenomenen, I don't know what it is, but I do know that kids are becoming sexually active at increasingly young ages, it seems to correlate with more open attitudes to sexuality and we need to find out exactly how our kids are being affected, before we push forward any further with "progressive" thinking.


I'm not saying trans issues are responsible, in any way, for increasing levels of sexual activity in children - but I am saying "Hold on a minute - something is changing. Let's find out why, before we decide to wholwheartedly embrace any ideology, whether progressive or conservative!"


In the meantime, what's wrong with girls and boys alike wearing school trousers?

ohnonotgmail

jackboy wrote: »

I don't think that question can be answered until it happens. Cant imagine that there are any written down rules to deal with this.

It would likely depend on the teacher and the skirt. Some fat hairy guy who is deemed odd would probably be unlikely to get away with it. A guy that is deemed cool and does it with some style would probably get away with it.

I cant imagine there are any written down rules either so a male teacher can wear a skirt of they wish. Coolness does not come into it.

donkeykong5

blade1 wrote: »

Will this new dress code apply to teachers as well?
Can the male teachers turn up wearing skirts?

Please delete this. Some one will jump on this bandwagon now. Ha

jackboy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I cant imagine there are any written down rules either so a male teacher can wear a skirt of they wish. Coolness does not come into it.

It will depend on whether the parents and other teachers feel comfortable with that male teacher wearing a skirt. So yeah, coolness will come into it.

ohnonotgmail

jackboy wrote: »

It will depend on whether the parents and other teachers feel comfortable with that male teacher wearing a skirt. So yeah, coolness will come into it.

the opinion of other teachers and parents is irrelevant. If there is no rule against it then they can say what they want.

jackboy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the opinion of other teachers and parents is irrelevant. If there is no rule against it then they can say what they want.

A guy I work with was sent home from work to change because he turned up in shorts. At the same time woman at work are allowed to wear skirts or shorts. No written rules around any of this.

is_that_so

jackboy wrote: »

A guy I work with was sent home from work to change because he turned up in shorts. At the same time woman at work are allowed to wear skirts or shorts. No written rules around any of this.

That's a private company dress code policy. There is more than likely something on dress code written down, even if it does not explicitly mention shorts for men. An MNC company I worked for had casual Friday, which could include shorts.

briangriffin

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Why? For listening to children and respecting them?

That's the new age "woke" parenting strategy I must listen to my child and I must respect what they are saying at all times.

freshpopcorn

briangriffin wrote: »

That's the new age "woke" parenting strategy I must listen to my child and I must respect what they are saying at all times.

At least your not pi**ing in the kettle!

HappyAsLarE

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Why? For listening to children and respecting them?

Kids are wonderfully innocent, immature and a little silly. Why on earth would you listen and respect their wishes? It is irresponsible.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briangriffin wrote: »

That's the new age "woke" parenting strategy I must listen to my child and I must respect what they are saying at all times.

This is the point I don't get: how is ignoring them and not allowing them to voice an opinion helping them learn?

Do you think, either every parent make every decision on hehalf of their child irresepective of the child's wishes; or are they autmatically "woke"?

dodderangler

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is the point I don't get: how is ignoring them and not allowing them to voice an opinion helping them learn?

Do you think, either every parent make every decision on hehalf of their child irresepective of the child's wishes; or are they autmatically "woke"?

Every parent makes their child’s decision until they are a certain age. Clearly you don’t have kids.
Every decision a parent makes against their child’s wishes has a reason. And a child that throws a tantrum or cries over it is not being raised correctly.
My kids never have thrown a tantrum. They’ve never back chatted me either. And they know the house rules.
Simple as! Same way I was raised. With respect! Respect your elders and especially your parents.

briangriffin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is the point I don't get: how is ignoring them and not allowing them to voice an opinion helping them learn?

Do you think, either every parent make every decision on hehalf of their child irresepective of the child's wishes; or are they autmatically "woke"?

Your job is to raise your kids so that they can be as independent as possible as early as possible and go out into the world equipped to deal with both failure and success, they need to be resilient . As an adult you don't ignore your child you engage with them and you explain why they can't have what they want e.g. 2 happy meals on a Friday because you are the adult who loves the child and wants to see them thrive and fulfil their potential.
Kids say stupid things all the time they do stupid things because they are not small adults they are growing immature children you do them no favours by pandering to their every whim, you will not crush your child's spirit by corrected them and creating rules and boundaries for them.

weldoninhio

briangriffin wrote: »

Your job is to raise your kids so that they can be as independent as possible as early as possible and go out into the world equipped to deal with both failure and success, they need to be resilient . As an adult you don't ignore your child you engage with them and you explain why they can't have what they want e.g. 2 happy meals on a Friday because you are the adult who loves the child and wants to see them thrive and fulfil their potential.
Kids say stupid things all the time they do stupid things because they are not small adults they are growing immature children you do them no favours by pandering to their every whim, you will not crush your child's spirit by corrected them and creating rules and boundaries for them.

It is incredibly sad that stuff like the above has to be explained to some people.

TheValeyard

briangriffin wrote: »

That's the new age "woke" parenting strategy I must listen to my child and I must respect what they are saying at all times.

Indeed. My Toddler told me he wanted snails in his weetabix today. Who am I to argue?

Sittingpretty

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is the point I don't get: how is ignoring them and not allowing them to voice an opinion helping them learn?

Do you think, either every parent make every decision on hehalf of their child irresepective of the child's wishes; or are they autmatically "woke"?

Yes! Every parent makes decisions irrespective of the wishes of their children. Have you ever met children? Are you aware of any of the stupid stuff they “decide” for themselves?

My children would be in Spider-Man/batman costumes/pyjamas/naked at school everyday if I were to listen to their every whim.

Jesus.

Brian?

weldoninhio wrote: »

It is incredibly sad that stuff like the above has to be explained to some people.

It doesn't. It's completely disingenuous to say it does.

I agree with all of the above and I still agree that allowing a boy to wear a skirt to school shouldn't be against the rules.

I've already been told my children will grow up unable to deal with adversity because I believe explaining the real world to them is the correct thing to do. Now I get this patronising post about boundaries.

I have extremely strict boundaries for my kids. They just don't extend to the choice of lower body clothing. Unless they want to wear shorts when it's snowing or jeans when it's 30 degrees. Hard, practical boundaries are fine they do way more good than harm. Boundaries about sexuality and gender expression do more harm than good in the long term.

Kids should be allowed to be kids. They should also know that some boys want to wear skirts and some men love other men. It's pretty simple to explain to a child not to judge someone based on this. In fact one of my hard boundaries is I will not tolerate them mocking someone based on race, gender or sexual preference. I have zero tolerance for any kind of bullying. I have zero tolerance for physical violence.

I know it's terribly woke of me to have such a hard line on discipline. But there it is.

Brian?

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Yes! Every parent makes decisions irrespective of the wishes of their children. Have you ever met children? Are you aware of any of the stupid stuff they “decide” for themselves?

My children would be in Spider-Man/batman costumes/pyjamas/naked at school everyday if I were to listen to their every whim.

Jesus.

Listening and allowing are 2 different things. I would always listen and explain why something isn't allowed.

What reason would you give in not allowing a boy to wear a skirt?

weldoninhio

Brian? wrote: »

Listening and allowing are 2 different things. I would always listen and explain why something isn't allowed.

What reason would you give in not allowing a boy to wear a skirt?

It's a female garment.

Brian?

dodderangler wrote: »

Every parent makes their child’s decision until they are a certain age. Clearly you don’t have kids.
Every decision a parent makes against their child’s wishes has a reason. And a child that throws a tantrum or cries over it is not being raised correctly.
My kids never have thrown a tantrum. They’ve never back chatted me either. And they know the house rules.
Simple as! Same way I was raised. With respect! Respect your elders and especially your parents.

They should respect all elders? Always?

That's an absolutely shocking thing to teach children. Children should politely question everything. Politely being the key. Perceived wisdom is the enemy of progress.

I was raised that way and it's served my siblings and I extremely well.

Brian?

weldoninhio wrote: »

It's a female garment.

I didn't know garments had gender.

I assume you mean it's a garment females wear.

When your child asks: " Why do only girls wear skirts", what do you say?