Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

McMurphy

Heard this being discussed on Newstalk this morning.


Now firstly, I have zero issues with this gender neutral policy craic, be gender neutral - I don't give a chit.

Maybe I'm being hypocritical here, but whilst I think it's been an acceptable practice for girls to be wearing trousers for what seems like years now, (practical in many senses, not only in comfort terms, but also to prevent little peaks up there by teenage lads) I'm just not so sure about lads being allowed to wear skirts to school. (Which is what this school is introducing)

Lads, wear skirts if you like - as stated I don't give a chit. Wear makeup, bras even fake boobs etc if you wish to too.

But in a school?

The absolute perfect ingredients needed to create an environment for unrelenting bullying.

Is this PC gone mad?

ted1

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Heard this being discussed on Newstalk this morning.


Now firstly, I have zero issues with this gender neutral policy craic, be gender neutral - I don't give a chit.

Maybe I'm being hypocritical here, but whilst I think it's been an acceptable practice for girls to be wearing trousers for what seems like years now, (practical in many senses, not only in comfort terms, but also to prevent little peaks up there by teenage lads) I'm just not so sure about lads being allowed to wear skirts to school. (Which is what this school is introducing)

Lads, wear skirts if you like - as stated I don't give a chit. Wear makeup, bras and fake boobs etc if you like.

But in a school?

That's the perfect ingredients to create an environment for unrelenting bullying.

Is this PC gone mad?

Lads have been wearing kilts for years

Deeper Blue

I don't see the point in this, as OP mentioned facilitation of gender neutrality etc is fine but allowing lads to wear skirts is just inviting bullying and harassment. We've all been in schools here and we know exactly how that'd go down.

Insect Overlord

Non-issue.

Reati

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Is this PC gone mad?

No. The problem is people who give a **** what other people wear or do with their lives and need to make a life time crusade to stop people doing it.

If people stopped worrying more about what other people were doing or wearing and focus that energy somewhere useful we might actually get real problems sorted.

Ten of Swords

Nobody is being forced to do anything, they're simply being given options. There will probably be a low uptake in fairness but at least if someone decides to there won't be bureaucratic nonsense and the school know exactly where they stand

Allinall

It'll toughen up the little snowflakes.

If I ever have a boy, I'm going to name him Sue.

chuck eastwood

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Heard this being discussed on Newstalk this morning.


Now firstly, I have zero issues with this gender neutral policy craic, be gender neutral - I don't give a chit.

Maybe I'm being hypocritical here, but whilst I think it's been an acceptable practice for girls to be wearing trousers for what seems like years now, (practical in many senses, not only in comfort terms, but also to prevent little peaks up there by teenage lads) I'm just not so sure about lads being allowed to wear skirts to school. (Which is what this school is introducing)

Lads, wear skirts to school if you like - as stated I don't give a chit. Wear makeup, bras and fake boobs etc if you like.

But in a school?

That's the perfect ingredients to create an environment for unrelenting bullying.

Is this PC gone mad?

Its not a question of PC gone mad but more so discrimination if you seek to stop it. I don't work in a school but my partner does on the social care side of things, last week we attended an open day for our youngest who will be attending primary school and I was blown away with how heavy the exclusivity aspect of the open day is. Parents were invited to speak privately with the principle if there were any gender related issues they felt they might need guidance with and assured that support would be given.
This is not forcing it on anyone or PC gone mad, I just feel it better that it is an open conversation in the event that any of our kids want to discuss why other kids feel this way. Why hide it from them. It will also hopefully lead to a point where young children won't be bullied and feel they need to hide or worse. Genuinely don't see what the problem is here

El_Duderino 09

I imagine almost none of the boys will ever wear a skirt. So what's the problem?

Woke Hogan

Not doing something because you might get bullied is cowardice. Children should be taught to stand up to bullies not bend to their will.

That being said, I doubt many lads will elect to wear dresses to school.

McMurphy

Reati wrote: »

No. The problem is people who give a **** what other people wear or do with their lives and need to make a life time crusade to stop people doing it.

If people stopped worrying more about what other people were doing or wearing and focus that energy somewhere useful we might actually get real problems sorted.

It's teenage kids we're talking about here.

Teenage kids aren't universally recognised for their level headed and reasoned acceptance for how their peers act, behave or dress.

If my own lads decide tomorrow they wanna wear a skirt to school, I'd tell him "work away son" but I'd be preparing myself for the inevitable victimisation and bullying that would be in the post.

glasspicklejar

If wearing trousers or a skirt is more in keeping with you being you, then go for it. Though the better question might be why there's a uniform at all.

biko

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/primary-school-to-introduce-gender-neutral-school-uniform-policy-1.3931242

Primary school to introduce gender neutral school uniform policy
Wicklow school to allow boys wear skirts or girls to wear trousers

Máire Costello, the school principal, said the move was prompted by the school’s student council and had been agreed by the school’s board of management and parents.

“We have children who are questioning their sexual identity. It is happening at an earlier age. We want all our children to have a happy experience in school,” she said.

Pkiernan

Their toilets policy will be interesting

Balanadan

Allinall wrote: »

It'll toughen up the little snowflakes.

If I ever have a boy, I'm going to name him Sue.

There was a male teacher in my school called Suzie. Not sure if that was his real name or a nickname.

namloc1980

“We have children who are questioning their sexual identity. It is happening at an earlier age. We want all our children to have a happy experience in school".

It's a primary school FFS. Let children be children.

Beechwoodspark

Schools should focus on basic education issues. They are already failing in basic areas.

GreeBo

Ugh, just make the uniform trousers only and move on.
The clue is in the name...uniform
"remaining the same in all cases and at all times; unchanging in form or character."

RocketRaccoon

With the week that's in it, isn't it strange for a school to be bringing in something like this which will 100% result in some poor child being bullied?

glasspicklejar

Pkiernan wrote: »

Their toilets policy will be interesting

Only if you think what you wear defines your gender. What if one of the female teachers wears trousers to work one day, should she have to start using the men's staff toilet? I'm sure it will cause some laughs/ confusion the first few days.

New workplaces have non-gendered bathroom facilities. So it's just loads of cubicles. Rather than trying to further bisect Mens/ Womens toilets into Mens(Cis)/ Mens(Trans)/ Womens(Cis)/ Womens(Trans) and all the other ways you could choose to divide things... we'll just roll it up to a single generic bathroom facility that anyone can feel comfortable using. I do hope they keep a urinal facility somewhere. That's like a fast track service at the airport!

Junkyard Tom

If I had a Son and he said he wanted to wear a skirt to school I'd say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgyLQ2jVsuY

d8491prj5boyvg

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Heard this being discussed on Newstalk this morning.


Now firstly, I have zero issues with this gender neutral policy craic, be gender neutral - I don't give a chit.

Maybe I'm being hypocritical here, but whilst I think it's been an acceptable practice for girls to be wearing trousers for what seems like years now, (practical in many senses, not only in comfort terms, but also to prevent little peaks up there by teenage lads) I'm just not so sure about lads being allowed to wear skirts to school. (Which is what this school is introducing)

Lads, wear skirts if you like - as stated I don't give a chit. Wear makeup, bras and fake boobs etc if you like.

But in a school?

That's the perfect ingredients to create an environment for unrelenting bullying.

Is this PC gone mad?

There is a difference between theory and practice that the OP is missing. In theory, lads can wear skirts thanks to the new school rules. This is great for optics - this is a progressive, forward thinking, inclusive school.

In practice, a number of things may happen. Most likely, no lads will wear skirts. Maybe one or two but I would put a good wedge the number is zero. Let's say a few do and genuinely want to. They may or may not get slagged. If they get slagged, they might stop and have the option to go back to trousers. If the threat of slagging is real they probably wouldn't even do it in the first place.

Alternatively, it is a good opportunity for the school to put their money where their mouth is and reprimand the students.

If they don't get slagged, no problem.

In the long term I think the bullying on this issue might die down as the slagging that went on in the past becomes taboo even among the young lads.

tl;dr - it's a non issue.

Peregrinus

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

With the week that's in it, isn't it strange for a school to be bringing in something like this which will 100% result in some poor child being bullied?

Well, there'll be no question of bullying unless a boy actually turns up in a dress, which I suggest is probably not going to happen all that often.

What a rule change like this does is to clarify issues; if a boy ever does wear a dress, or even profess a desire to, and gets bullied for doing so, it's now clearly flagged that the problem that will need to be dealt with in that situation is not the dress; it's the bullying.

Which, I'm sure we'd all agree, is absolutely the right signal to send. Having a rule that boys mustn't dress in a way that might provoke bullying is not all that different from a rule that says that women mustn't dress in a way that might provoke sexual harassment.

whisky_galore

ted1 wrote: »

Lads have been wearing kilts for years

Try wearing one in this country and see how stupid fully grown adults can get, let alone children.

kravmaga

This is ridiculous, the school should concentrate on the curriculum, this will just create another excuse for kids to bully other kids

Calhoun

Wonder if they are allowed wear shorts. Seems pretty odd that it's a skirt or a trousers and no in between.

JohnnyFlash

I’m glad I still have the option to send my kids to schools with a religious ethos. Where the focus is on education, sport, and personal development, and not this ‘woke’ bollocks.

Peregrinus

You don't think St. Bridget's National School in Greystones, attached as it is to the Parish of Holy Rosary and St Kilian, might have a religious ethos at all?

d8491prj5boyvg

Let's think through a likely scenario. This was voted in by a school council. The students themselves voted it in and are therefore actively thinking about gender issues.

Day 1, a boy lands in with a skirt. He's not taking the piss and genuinely feels more comfortable in the skirt. In a school culture where the students have voted in favour of gender neutrality, will this boy get slagged about this revealed preference? This is a mixed school, so not 100% laddish and girls may be more sympathetic to issues of gender. Also, teenage boys like to impress girls. I don't think it will be an issue .

donaghs

GreeBo wrote: »

Ugh, just make the uniform trousers only and move on.
The clue is in the name...uniform
"remaining the same in all cases and at all times; unchanging in form or character."

Shows you how much things are still in a state of flux and confusion. I think most people would be ok with a "gender neutral uniform". i.e. everyone wearing the same thing.
But saying that girls can wear trousers/whatever and boys can wear skirts, is not gender neutral. It reinforces, gender, albeit the idea that its something you can pick, rather than being inherent.

Sounds as much trying to stay on-trend as good intentions. If fashions/culture change, and the idea of "gender difference" comes under attack again, as it was when I was in uni, i guess they just have to keep shifting policies?

weldoninhio

Reati wrote: »

No. The problem is people who give a **** what other people wear or do with their lives and need to make a life time crusade to stop people doing it.

If people stopped worrying more about what other people were doing or wearing and focus that energy somewhere useful we might actually get real problems sorted.

You realise we are talking about UNIFORMS!!!!