Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

B_ecke_r · 20-06-2019 10:49AM

joe40 wrote: »

I heard of a story in England when one of the gutter press there, news of the world I think, were on about naming paedophiles. A Paediatrician was attacked...

Pretty sure I read that that was made up

fryup · 20-06-2019 10:51AM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

One issue that's been really hitting me over the last couple of days is that Ana was hard of hearing or partially deaf

maybe that's why she was targeted by bullies? the fact she was tall & good looking and couldn't hear properly some children might have perceived that as being snotty or stand-offish ...you know the way some kids are ..jealous/bitchy

AudreyHepburn · 20-06-2019 10:54AM

inthehat wrote: »

Why would innocent boys have any fears of being wrongly named?? The 2 convicted boys are in custody. If a boy with a similiar name is walking around free then obviously it cant be him.

Because the baying mob don’t actually care about justice or whether they are targeting the right person. They are out for blood.

Greyfox · 20-06-2019 10:57AM

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Have you played this game?

Play the game for an hour, than come back to me and tell me that the content and the way the game draws you in to kill more violently is not f**ked up and would be damaging for a young impressionable mind.

I have played the game myself. I don't see how it could be considered damaging, the violence was very fake and nothing like real life violence. There's been billions of games released over the last few decades and theres never been a proven link between real violence and a game. linking the 2 is nonsense particularly when theres a lot worse things out there that can actually influence kids

spurious · 20-06-2019 10:57AM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Absolutely spot on. I'd imagine some kids are behind the sending of pics, thinking it's funny and unaware of consequences.

Almost as if their parents had not given them a sense of right and wrong.

Nerdlingr · 20-06-2019 10:58AM

Lucuma wrote: »

The same evening. The park ranger said that Boy A's hair was a mess and he looked scuffed up and had blood on his tshirt etc. It was the same evening.
Before his Mammy had a chance to bleach the blood stains off his clothes that night!

Did that actually happen? Never saw it reported.

Lucuma · 20-06-2019 10:59AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Did that actually happen? Never saw it reported.

She said that she 'soaked' them overnight to get the stains out. That was her evidence, one of the first days of the court case

Lucuma · 20-06-2019 11:02AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Did that actually happen? Never saw it reported.

'He told her he had left Boy B just a few minutes earlier and was walking through the park when he was grabbed from behind, brought to the ground and beaten by two youths. He knocked one of them down with a kick, leaving his attacker bloody in the face.

She told the court: “From what I remember, he said they ran away.” He didn’t recognise his attackers and said they didn’t speak. She added her son had taken Jiu Jitsu lessons since he was about 10 years old.

She later took him to Garda HQ in Phoenix Park to do an EvoFit of his attackers.

Boy A’s mum confirmed she washed her son’s clothes the following day and soaked his T-shirt overnight. Apart from the blood stains, she said they were “scruffy and dirty looking”. Scuffs across the middle of the hoodie were consistent with him having been beaten on the ground. They were gravelly marks rather than grass stains.'

Grayson · 20-06-2019 11:02AM

fryup wrote: »

maybe that's why she was targeted by bullies? the fact she was tall & good looking and couldn't hear properly some children might have perceived that as being snotty or stand-offish ...you know the way some kids are ..jealous/bitchy

Kids are assholes. Any excuse would have been needed. And it's wrong to focus on just her and ask why bullying happened. In every class in every school around this country there's probably a kid who's bullied. There will be nominally a different reason for it in every case but the main reason is asshole kids.

Bullying needs to be tackled in schools. I keep seeing people online saying parents are the best people for it but they're not. They don't witness it and as far as they're concerned their kids are angels. And if parents were great at this as a group, then we wouldn't have bullies in the first place. I'm sure some parents are great, but as a group they're not.

And why should they be. They've never had any training in this stuff. They don't know about the dynamics of a playground. They don't understand cyberbullying.

We need to teach kids about respect from a young age. they need to learn about consent, equality fairness and all that stuff. Because we can't reply on a group of people, who have the best intentions and aims, not to mention a lot of love for their kids, to just wing it and hope for the best.

20-06-2019 11:04AM

Driving through town last night I saw scores of young people dolled up obviously heading out to celebrate end of exams. Mini skirts, make -up. fake tan etc (no prob with that, I did it all myself to some extent in my day

).

But all the girls looked like clones of each other. Same long poker straight hair, same daft eye-brows, same fake colour from top to toe. I just thought how hard it must be for a girl to be even remotely different. It's like a rite of passage - "we must all conform ".

The guys all looked like themselves, just well spruced-up.

tayto lover · 20-06-2019 11:05AM

Force Carrier wrote: »

They looked at statistics with "middle school" kids in america after wide spread use of smart phones became ubiquitous in 2008 and noticed a significant increase in self harm rates in boys and girls - and particularly in girls. Social network apps put a lot of pressure on kids and there is a lot of online bullying. Not that these issues haven't always been there but the technology exacerbates them. And there is no upside to the phones anyway. They aren't needed and bring no benefit.

I think in a few years schools everywhere will ban phones and jam phone signals.
Whatever laws need to change will be changed.

In our local Youthreach the youngsters have to hand in their phones in the morning. They are put in an envelope with their names on it, kept locked in a locked press in the office and not returned until classes end.
Anyone caught with a phone in their possession having failed to hand it in is suspended and their parents notified.
I think this is a good system.

JuneMoon7 · 20-06-2019 11:06AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I knew of a bullying case in a small school in the country.
11 girls in 5th class. One girl being victimized and bullied by the other ten.
One of the girls has a birthday party, all invited except the bullied girl.
During the party each girl in turn phones the bullied girl to gloat and tell her how much fun they’re all having. 10 phone calls to this poor girl who has to go and sit in that classroom with these bullies on the following Monday.
School did fcuk all about it either.

Youngsters can be very cruel. We should never forget it.

Absolutely. That is a terrible story, poor girl. And as for teachers..a child should never have to pluck up the courage to tell a teacher they are being bullied. In most cases they wont have the nerve to do it. teachers should have the emotional intelligence and basic common sense to pick up on it. They should be approaching the child, not the other way around. That said, i would like to think that if/when children do reach out to a parent or teacher, that SOMETHING is being done. It is every bit as much the teachers responsibility as anyone's to put an end to a child's suffering.

Greyfox · 20-06-2019 11:07AM

MrFresh wrote: »

Yeah, that's the point. That's why we have a justice system, to reduce the possibility of getting the wrong person.

I'm not saying mob mentality is ok, I'm saying its completely understandable when our justice system fails

Nerdlingr · 20-06-2019 11:07AM

Lucuma wrote: »

She said that she 'soaked' them overnight to get the stains out. That was her evidence, one of the first days of the court case

F*ckin hell. :eek:
That does not look good, knowing what we know now.
But I wonder when Boy A actually came clean to the parents. That night, next day ???
If your son come in all bloody and say he's been beaten up by two strangers, the first thing you would probably do is get him out of the clothes. I dont know if you would be thinking "i better keep these as is, just in case we need DNA " etc.

Her actions of washing the clothes looks like she was implicit in a cover-up, but it could be innocent enough.

castletownman · 20-06-2019 11:09AM

The thing I can't help thinking about is whether her birth parent(s) know of Ana's faith.

How heartbreaking must it be for them to be under the assumption that she is living a better life in Ireland than they could have offered her, and to maybe pluck up the courage in a few years to make contact with her only to discover what happened.

JuneMoon7 · 20-06-2019 11:10AM

beggars_bush wrote: »

what could the school do about a party outside of school?

EDIT, also why do 5th class girls need phones?

Because the majority of the bullying would have been taking place where they were all together the most; in the classroom. if the entire class of little so and sos were engaging in this victimization and exclusion, you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to notice it.

SirGerryAdams · 20-06-2019 11:11AM

There's about a 15 minute difference from when Boy A was spotted on CCTV returning home to Boy B being spotted on CCTV returning home.

Does anyone with local knowledge know if this looks like Boy B didn't stay the whole duration that Boy A did?

joe40 · 20-06-2019 11:13AM

inthehat wrote: »

Driving through town last night I saw scores of young people dolled up obviously heading out to celebrate end of exams. Mini skirts, make -up. fake tan etc (no prob with that, I did it all myself to some extent in my day ).

But all the girls looked like clones of each other. Same long poker straight hair, same daft eye-brows, same fake colour from top to toe. I just thought how hard it must be for a girl to be even remotely different. It's like a rite of passage - "we must all conform ".

The guys all looked like themselves, just well spruced-up.

You are seeing the girls who went out and are into that. Nothing inherently wrong but there are plenty of girls not into that scene at 15.
My Daughter finished her junior cert this week. She is not a loner has friends and does activities but zero interest in the teenage disco scene.

But I agree there is pressure on girls to conform to a certain look on nights out. For vulnerable girls with low self esteem this could be very challenging.

SirGerryAdams · 20-06-2019 11:15AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

F*ckin hell. :eek:
That does not look good, knowing what we know now.
But I wonder when Boy A actually came clean to the parents. That night, next day ???
If your son come in all bloody and say he's been beaten up by two strangers, the first thing you would probably do is get him out of the clothes. I dont know if you would be thinking "i better keep these as is, just in case we need DNA " etc.

Her actions of washing the clothes looks like she was implicit in a cover-up, but it could be innocent enough.

Boy A never came clean. To this day he says he was beaten up by two guys. Little scum.

Neyite · 20-06-2019 11:15AM

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

There's about a 15 minute difference from when Boy A was spotted on CCTV returning home to Boy B being spotted on CCTV returning home.

Does anyone with local knowledge know if this looks like Boy B didn't stay the whole duration that Boy A did?

Wasn't it different CCTV's though? One was the BMX track and there was another one. So you'd probably have to factor in the walking distance from the crime scene to where each was seen on the CCTV. It may be a shorter or longer time frame.

I'm personally thinking that B was there until the very end. The disclosure to the psychologist would make me think that.

dickangel · 20-06-2019 11:18AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Because without seeing the correct child’s face it would be easy for people to assume it’s the innocent boy that’s being referred.

A little logical thinking please. Trial and sentence by social media should never be acceptable.

Maybe you should read the rest of the conversation.

TheAsYLuMkeY · 20-06-2019 11:20AM

Greyfox wrote: »

I have played the game myself. I don't see how it could be considered damaging, the violence was very fake and nothing like real life violence. There's been billions of games released over the last few decades and theres never been a proven link between real violence and a game. linking the 2 is nonsense particularly when theres a lot worse things out there that can actually influence kids

I take your point seeing as I said play the game and then comment, but may I offer one further comment on it.

In isolation it would not be a cause, as part of a whole series of negative influences I think it contributes when the person is so young.

What age were you when you played it?

I was late 20’s early 30’s, at the time I played, I would probably of held the same opinion as you, but for a period of time now (years) I have not partook in games of that nature, horror movies etc and I find now if I do look at horror for example that at the time years ago I would have found tame, it puts me on edge.

You can become desensitised to the games and movies and not see the extremity of them if you are always playing and looking etc, you kind of accept it as normal and tame.

Take a long break from it and return to it and you see it entirely differently.

Nerdlingr · 20-06-2019 11:20AM

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Boy A never came clean. To this day he says he was beaten up by two guys. Little scum.

Not to the public, but i wonder did he tell the folks.

dickangel · 20-06-2019 11:23AM

gozunda wrote: »

Exactly and that's the tie. He used the defence that he wasnt there and that has failed.

It is clear that both he and Boy B were there from the evidence and Boy B's own testimony.

You said

Why did Boy A not implicate Boy B?
Boy A's defence that he wasnt there was never going to stand up in court in light of the forensics

Ok we'll try again but slowly this time. Boy A could have made any number of remarks to implicate or shift blame to Boy B without admitting he was there such as "Boy B used to always talk about killing her" or "Boy B was obsessed with her." He could have even said he had an active plan to do it. Boy B was happy to do that to Boy A but for whatever reason Boy A didn't retaliate despite being read the transcripts.

SirChenjin · 20-06-2019 11:23AM

Boy B's family 'forced into hiding' according to the news. Hmm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0620/1056478-kriegel-case-court/

fryup · 20-06-2019 11:23AM

Greyfox wrote: »

I have played the game myself. I don't see how it could be considered damaging, the violence was very fake and nothing like real life violence. There's been billions of games released over the last few decades and theres never been a proven link between real violence and a game. linking the 2 is nonsense particularly when theres a lot worse things out there that can actually influence kids

it desensitises kids to violence.....there's definitely a lot more aggression/bad behaviour out there than a generation ago

ohnonotgmail · 20-06-2019 11:24AM

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I take your point seeing as I said play the game and then comment, but may I offer one further comment on it.

In isolation it would not be a cause, as part of a whole series of negative influences I think it contributes when the person is so young.

What age were you when you played it?

I was late 20’s early 30’s, at the time I played, I would probably of held the same opinion as you, but for a period of time now (years) I have not partook in games of that nature, horror movies etc and I find now if I do look at horror for example that at the time years ago I would have found tame, it puts me on edge.

You can become desensitised to the games and movies and not see the extremity of them if you are always playing and looking etc, you kind of accept it as normal and tame.

Take a long break from it and return to it and you see it entirely differently.

people have been bashing each others heads in since the dawn of time. the problem is people. some people are just evil little ****s.

SirGerryAdams · 20-06-2019 11:24AM

Regarding Boy B and people saying he mightn't have known.

I'll give an example of when I was around that age. Me and my cousin went cycling and I gave him a bike with faulty brakes. We went down a hill and he fell off the bike, hit his head and had a massive cut and needed stitches.

I was ****ting it and was worried sick all evening for doing such a bad thing.

Boy B went home after at least knowing Ana came to harm and acted like normal.

I'd have loved to have heard from Boy B's parents as to whether they noticed he was acting strange or off that day when he came back. If not, they were either lying or else Boy B was acting normal in which case he knew full well what the plan was.

And if I was Boy B's parents, I'd be asking serious questions (while Ana was still a missing person) to him about what happened as he was the last person to see Ana.

Debub · 20-06-2019 11:25AM

Twitter and Facebook (for WhatsApp) called to be in the Criminal Court today for circulating the identities of the 'Boys' on social media

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/kri%C3%A9gel-case-facebook-and-twitter-summoned-to-court-over-photos-1.3931319

tayto lover · 20-06-2019 11:25AM

Neyite wrote: »

Wasn't it different CCTV's though? One was the BMX track and there was another one. So you'd probably have to factor in the walking distance from the crime scene to where each was seen on the CCTV. It may be a shorter or longer time frame.

I'm personally thinking that B was there until the very end. The disclosure to the psychologist would make me think that.

Plus he was able to point out to detectives the room Ana’s body was found in.
It was a different room to where he handed over Ana to Boy A and where the assault began.
He hung around for sure enjoying his plan hatching out.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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