Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

Danzy

McCarthy6251 wrote: »

By the way, only about a million all-electric passenger cars are being exploited all over the world.

Bhp, the mining giant, predict that half of cars sold globally by 2030 will be Electric, an estimate they revised up from a short while ago.

drunkmonkey

lalababa wrote: »

I am not happy with my 109BHP car ATM, I really really have to work hard to pass anything out or beat the crowd to the lights, and then double the work beating them away from the lights. Me right foot is f**ked I tell you, and the poor car is stressed out. I think you have me coverted and I will get a 300BHP next time round. And the next time after that sure I'd want a 400BHP. But seriously in what legal/safe driving situation can you actually use all 300BHP? Could you use them if perhaps you are in too high a gear when overtaking? But that wouldn't work 'coz you'd be well over the speed limit if using all those horses in a high gear.

I think you should go test drive something with at least 200bhp. 109bhp would scare me to overtake in these days. 300bhp doesn't equal 300mph.

lalababa

lalababa wrote: »

I am not happy with my 109BHP car ATM, I really really have to work hard to pass anything out or beat the crowd to the lights, and then double the work beating them away from the lights. Me right foot is f**ked I tell you, and the poor car is stressed out. I think you have me coverted and I will get a 300BHP next time round. And the next time after that sure I'd want a 400BHP. But seriously in what legal/safe driving situation can you actually use all 300BHP? Could you use them if perhaps you are in too high a gear when overtaking? But that wouldn't work 'coz you'd be well over the speed limit if using all those horses in a high gear.

We have a 215 bhp at home and would see no problem at all with more.
Motorway driving is so much easier when there is still power to be had in 6th gear. Getting up to speed in a quick and safe manner is also not a bother (even if someone, in front, in their 1.4L 109BHP take longer than the merging lane to do so, and enters at 80kmh).

Load the car with 5 adults and all the golf kit in the back and still no drop off in necessary power.

So, while I don't have a 300bhp machine I can easily, safely, and legally use 215 and would not have an issue with more.

uck51js9zml2yt

GreeBo wrote: »

Well, EV is an option, if you can afford it and for 40KM commute, you can pickup a used leaf for cheap.

When the charge points aren't there for a family car, it's not an option.

zilog_jones

adocholiday wrote: »

I have a 60km commute each way to work, I drive a 2010 diesel car and I intend on driving it until it's dead. I was going to upgrade to an electric when I moved but price, lack of charging options where I work, and the fact that the tech is evolving at a rapid pace completely put me off. 31k for the most basic Hyundai Ioniq electric is madness IMO.

The price isn't that bad at all if you were going to buy a new car anyway. You need to look at the TCO - you'd easily save thousands a year on running costs doing that mileage with an EV versus a new diesel or petrol car.

cournioni wrote: »

Transferring pollution from an exhaust pipe doesn't solve the issue. You will still have pollution somewhere and if that is from a power plant it most likely will not be localised anyway! You will have issues on some level. Consumption is the major issue and that won't stop while the population keeps growing.

Large scale power generation is much more efficient than millions of individual ICEs running about the place - an EV powered entirely by coal power (which is not the case in Ireland) is still producing less CO2 than an ICE car.

Treatment of emissions at a large scale is more effective. The big fossil-fuelled power plants are not in densely populated areas. Renewable power generation will be increased anyway. You can even produce your own electricity, and there will be more incentive to do that when they bring in feed-in tariffs (which is part of the plan).

is_that_so

Mike9832 wrote: »

Government should lead by example here

Gardaí, Defence, Emergency services, basically the whole lot should be moving to EV if they are so suitable

Charge points to be installed at all those premises

Think 99% of Government fleet is diesel/petrol

Some clever lot

And when should all of that happen? Next Monday?

BarryD2

GreeBo wrote: »

Well, EV is an option, if you can afford it and for 40KM commute, you can pickup a used leaf for cheap.

I can understand your enthusiasm for EV cars but not your apparent blind belief! Can't help feeling that one would have to be a dealer or have skin in the game in some way to be so gung ho, when the current shortcomings are obvious and future potential policy and taxation arrangements are so opaque?

Maybe that's where we are headed but just can't see it happening in the sort of time scales mooted.

Micky 32

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think you should go test drive something with at least 200bhp. 109bhp would scare me to overtake in these days. 300bhp doesn't equal 300mph.

I wouldn't bother he/she is just trolling...:p

samih

BarryD2 wrote: »

I can understand your enthusiasm for EV cars but not your apparent blind belief! Can't help feeling that one would have to be a dealer or have skin in the game in some way to be so gung ho, when the current shortcomings are obvious and future potential policy and taxation arrangements are so opaque?

Maybe that's where we are headed but just can't see it happening in the sort of time scales mooted.

Maybe like myself GreeBo is just a happy EV driver. I personally can't see a single shortcoming for driving an EV for a 80 km commute over a diesel if you can can charge the car privately where you normally park overnight. Not only are the energy costs a small fraction but the performance and comfort would probably be better than a same class conventional car. And any current generation EVs can easily do two return 80 km return trips, i.e. don't even necessarily need to be charged every night (in case you are a two car family for example).

Mike9832

is_that_so wrote: »

And when should all of that happen? Next Monday?

Should already be happening

Skatedude

samih wrote: »

Maybe like myself GreeBo is just a happy EV driver. I personally can't see a single shortcoming for driving an EV for a 80 km commute over a diesel if you can can charge the car privately where you normally park overnight. Not only are the energy costs a small fraction but the performance and comfort would probably be better than a same class conventional car. And any current generation EVs can easily do two return 80 km return trips, i.e. don't even necessarily need to be charged every night (in case you are a two car family for example).

And that's the elephant in the room, the majority of people cant charge at home,

drunkmonkey

Skatedude wrote: »

And that's the elephant in the room, the majority of people cant charge at home,

and that's exactly why public/shared transport should be the number one issue when it comes to transport. Instead we've dirty Dublin polluting the whole country and making up laws to fix a Dublin problem and enforcing them on the whole country. The M50 should be turned into an electric train line.

samih

Skatedude wrote: »

And that's the elephant in the room, the majority of people cant charge at home,

This is my only reservation and that's why I explicitly mentioned it. You don't necessarily need to charge at home though but you absolutely do need a parking space where you normally park to have a socket nearby. Even a regular 3 pin socket 8 hours a day is enough for roughly 100 kilometers of driving a day. If you normally drive less than that daily you can share the sockets.

is_that_so

Mike9832 wrote: »

Should already be happening

There's always a timescale but first it needs a plan. 2-5 years I would say.

bonkers67

drunkmonkey wrote: »

and that's exactly why public/shared transport should be the number one issue when it comes to transport. Instead we've dirty Dublin polluting the whole country and making up laws to fix a Dublin problem and enforcing them on the whole country. The M50 should be turned into an electric train line.

The main problem is agriculture. I don’t think there’s too much of that happening in our cities.

jmayo

bonkers67 wrote: »

The main problem is agriculture. I don’t think there’s too much of that happening in our cities.

Yeah the problem is our most successful indigenous Irish owned industry that will never leave to find another low tax compliant cheap labour site and provides much needed jobs and export revenue.

Sure lets fook it up. :rolleyes:

BTW people here have mentioned how one can charge your car overnight at home.

But have they thought how people in apartment blocks and townhouses will manage where they don't have parking spot outside their front door ?

How much will it cost to put charge points in apartment block parking spaces and who would pay for it ?
And they have to be ones that only the parking spot holder would have keyed access to so not your usual bog standard cheap solution.

Bobeagleburger

Agriculture is a huge contributer. Hardly a shocking revelation.

sk8board

Until now the government didn’t have to lead the change, as viable electric cars weren’t available. Easy to side-step the issue.

Now that there are a couple of viable EV options for sale, the greens did well in European elections and people start to see that they could be a viable alternative, then the Government will start to fly kites like this for the next while.
Today’s announcement has no dates and no costings. It’s just a kite.

We are decades away from the national fleet being electric. It’s simply not physically possible to do it sooner, much as we might like it

Mike9832

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah the problem is our most successful indigenous Irish owned industry that will never leave to find another low tax compliant cheap labour site and provides much needed jobs and export revenue.

Sure lets fook it up. :rolleyes:

BTW people here have mentioned how one can charge your car overnight at home.

But have they thought how people in apartment blocks and townhouses will manage where they don't have parking spot outside their front door ?

How much will it cost to put charge points in apartment block parking spaces and who would pay for it ?
And they have to be ones that only the parking spot holder would have keyed access to so not your usual bog standard cheap solution.

How much will it cost the ESB to upgrade the electric network?

You can't charge 950,000 electric cars on current network

That will cost billions upon billions to upgdade

Imagine a big estate or apartment blocks charging 800 electric cars a night at 7kW for 8 hours straight lol

Government talking garbage as usual that will cost the tax payers billions

meeeeh

Or will it be? There are some figures which should make for at least concerning reading, if not outright worry when it comes to electric cars, and one of those came from the company that made the first ever car - Mercedes-Benz. Launching its new EQC all-electric crossover this past week, Mercedes casually mentioned that after 200,000km of daily use, an electric car’s total well-to-wheel emissions will have fallen to 60 per cent of those of a petrol-engined car, or 30 per cent if all of the juice going into the batteries comes from renewable sources.

This is from an article I posted earlier. It would be stupid of governments to accelerate the scrappage of ice cars considering how long it takes to make significant dent in emissions in comparison to ICE cars.

corcaigh07

Dreading the next budget, all a ply to dramatically increase motor tax and bump up tax on fuel also. The lucrative cc tax pre 2008 is weakening and the government have to replace it.

Tolls might go up too.

jmayo

Mike9832 wrote: »

How much will it cost the ESB to upgrade the electric network?

You can't charge 950,000 electric cars on current network

That will cost billions upon billions to upgdade

Imagine a big estate or apartment blocks charging 800 electric cars a night at 7kW for 8 hours straight lol

Government talking garbage as usual that will cost the tax payers billions

Hey this is Leo the lovely we are talking about.
Lots of fluff but no real costings and when someone does come up with figures, it comes back as billions.

But hey they will find the money and there will be no cuts to anything else.

Sound familiar to the childrens hospital, national broadband plan ?

Johnboy1951

I guess I should wait another half dozen years before thinking about changing to a BEV ........ from
https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Climate%20Action%20Plan%202019.pdf
Page 91

By the middle of the 2020s EVs will reach TCO-parity with diesel and petrol engines. This means that when a consumer factors in both up-front cost and ongoing running cost, it will be as cheap to have an EV as a petrol/ diesel vehicle.

Agent_47

What I saw yesterday was a Taxation plan not a climate plan, no plan to deal with Agri (45% CO2 contributor) , air transport and industrial emissions.

FG plan to scare people into electric cars and raise property taxes.

This house won't be voting for Greens or Blue shirts in any general election.

Agent_47

Agent_47 wrote: »

What I saw yesterday was a Taxation plan not a climate plan, no plan to deal with Agri (45% CO2 contributor) , air transport and industrial emissions.

FG plan to scare people into electric cars and raise property taxes.

This house won't be voting for Greens or Blue shirts in any general election.

Climate change is the great gravy train for Governments. Just a great excuse to collect revenue.

I'm not going to stop eating beef, it has to come from somewhere, if not from Ireland it will come on filthy oil burning ships from somewhere else and God knows what the quality of it will be but oh the Government won't care because they can boast about how Ireland's Farming community produce less Co2.

The Government would be far better off to give farmers grants to plant real hardwood forest, proper forest not tiny woods scattered here and there, get other farmers to plant forest and merge on different lands with other farmers to make proper big forest people can actually enjoy.

Ireland has shocking little real natural forest and most of what's there is grown to cut down and crappy pine trees, make these new forests protected and turned into parks with real native hardwood trees. There offsets Co2 if people are so concerned but the benefit would be having real forests that are protected for People to enjoy.

Air travel via fossil fuels can't be avoided, there is no alternative and none on the radar.

InTheShadows

Honestly i think politicians live in a complete bubble. A half decent EV costs what 30k euro?? but yet you can buy a perfectly good car that will last for another 10 years for 3k euro. Do they think money grows on trees or something.

InTheShadows

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Dreading the next budget, all a ply to dramatically increase motor tax and bump up tax on fuel also. The lucrative cc tax pre 2008 is weakening and the government have to replace it.

Tolls might go up too.

I think they will tax diesels out of existence tbh. I'm dreading it also as my car has at least another 10 good years left in her i look after it like a baby.

geminiman63

Just wondering here, where do hybrids stand in the grand scheme of things ?

galwaytt

unkel wrote: »

Yes. In some other countries it's much earlier. In Norway it's only 5 years away. And only 3 years away for taxis.



EVs are largely charged at night. Up to 75% of Ireland's night time electricity supply is from wind. This percentage increases every year. Should be up to 100% within the next few years (on a windy night of course)

Ireland has used almost zero coal to generate electricity for nearly a year now...

Any comparisons with Norway are completely bogus: they have a surplus of (hydro) electricity. Their electricity is only 5c/unit. They subsidise EV on the back of a cash pile earned on the back of - shock: oil......which has put them in the envious position of the world's largest cash pile.

the incentives for EV are now being unwound with what's nicknamed 'the Tesla tax'
EV incentive's of low tax, use of bus lanes, free parking, tax credits, free ferries etc have lead to the pendulum swinging too far....

By all means buy EV if it works for you, but comparing the Irish and Norwegian economies is bonkers.

Agent_47

Deleted User wrote: »

Climate change is the great gravy train for Governments. Just a great excuse to collect revenue.

The Government would be far better off to give farmers grants to plant real hardwood forest, proper forest not tiny woods scattered here and there, get other farmers to plant forest and merge on different lands with other farmers to make proper big forest people can actually enjoy.

Ireland has shocking little real natural forest and most of what's there is grown to cut down and crappy pine trees, make these new forests protected and turned into parks with real native hardwood trees. There offsets Co2 if people are so concerned but the benefit would be having real forests that are protected for People to enjoy.

Air travel via fossil fuels can't be avoided, there is no alternative and none on the radar.

Very valid point, only hardwood forest of note near me is Mullaghmeen, shocking poor. too much short sightedness blights Ireland.