Death knell for petrol and diesel cars?

cournioni

The One Doctor wrote: »

Diesel is polluting on a personal level. In a city, emissions are concentrated and people's health is affected in the long run. Children are much more likely to have respiratory problems.

The irony about all this is that the Greens were the party that made the diesel so popular. Their shortsighted policies caused a lot of health problems for people in towns and cities

The end will come for diesels. Diesels are more expensive than petrols over the long run anyway. €1000 injectors, DMF, DPF, ad blue, turbos, pump problems...

Transferring pollution from an exhaust pipe doesn't solve the issue. You will still have pollution somewhere and if that is from a power plant it most likely will not be localised anyway! You will have issues on some level. Consumption is the major issue and that won't stop while the population keeps growing.

What do you think will happen when extra capacity will be required from power stations if EV's ever become the norm? What makes you think that the infrastructure will ever be in place to service them? We can barely build roads or rail ffs!

€1000 is for a set brand new injectors (which more often than not is not a requirement). There are a few workshops that repair them with genuine parts for a fraction of that price.

GreeBo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You can't state and EV will be cheaper in the long run, you don't know Depreciation rates on current cars when the next crop start coming next year and you also don't know the cost of Electricity in the future. There's also insurance costs which I think could be off the wall once EV accidents are an every day thing.

Well I know what the running costs for a 10 year old diesel are compared to a new EV.

Why will insurance costs be more for an EV than an ICE?

BarryD2

InTheShadows wrote: »

People need to read up on how much damage a new car does to the environment in terms of production be it EV, hybrid, petrol or diesel. My 11 year old I30 Diesel which we bought brand new will be kept by us for another 10 years at the very least. It's the people who don't go out and change car every other year that are really doing the planet a service.

And up to government policy to acknowledge and support this - instead of skewing the market and encouraging churning of the fleet as they've done in the past.

GreeBo wrote: »

Well I know what the running costs for a 10 year old diesel are compared to a new EV.

Not quite, you know the current running costs of a new EV. No way in the world that these will remain as they are, the only way is up.

lalababa

Eric Cartman wrote: »

GreeBo wrote: »

There will be thousands of second hand electric cars by then...whats the issue?

Unlike ICE cars, when they get to about 10 years old , the cost of replacing the battery makes them almost a writeoff. As they get cheaper it will make them worth scrap

That's only a popular unversed in car economics point of view. For the last 2/3 decades most ICE cars are of a quality that PROPERLY SERVICED will last 20+years . Even on this small Island nation (ie rust).
Now you take out all the servicing and problems going along with combustion engines and you are left with a even more long lasting setup. After 10 yrs when the battery is shot, you stick in a new (probably better) pack for 5k and motor on for another 10yr.s. this is the mechanical and economical reality. It is NOT the actual reality however as average Joe bloggs does not want to be seen in an old car.

knipex

unkel wrote: »

EVs are largely charged at night. Up to 75% of Ireland's night time electricity supply is from wind. This percentage increases every year. Should be up to 100% within the next few years (on a windy night of course)

That's because night time demand is low. Add 1 million EV's plugging in and that changes, demand rises and the percentage of electricity generated by wind drops like a stone..

You cannot have a reliable, demand led electricity system based on wind power. Its not physically possible unless you have terrawatt hours of storage

elperello

What will happen to all the diesel and petrol cars which are still being sold today?
The people who are buying them today for 30k + are hardly going to be tempted by a scrappage deal of 1.5k in three years time.

bear1

I wonder how much energy will be needed in order to crush all the cars that will then become eventually unsellable.
While I think we should be moving away from fossil fuels on a whole but to outright ban the sale of them in just over a decade is a bit unfair.
10 years ago they preached how diesel was the way forward, everyone went and bought them to just have 200e motor tax.
Now we are being told we need to have electric cars and there's nothing we can do about it.
Watch the tax on anything possible be increased to pay for all of this.

elperello

elperello wrote: »

What will happen to all the diesel and petrol cars which are still being sold today?
The people who are buying them today for 30k + are hardly going to be tempted by a scrappage deal of 1.5k in three years time.

Are garages going to stop selling petrol and diesel ?
I dont think so

knipex

8-10 wrote: »

These lazy myths are tiresome. It is demonstrably not shifting the burden equivalently onto power plants.

https://knowledge.insead.edu/blog/insead-blog/the-four-most-prevalent-myths-about-electric-cars-10381

Electric cars is the future and I can't wait to trade up my hybrid to full electric. Never going back.

No offense but that link is a joke.

Concern about pollution from disposal of batteries.

Current cars have batteries too.

GreeBo

BarryD2 wrote: »

Not quite, you know the current running costs of a new EV. No way in the world that these will remain as they are, the only way is up.

THey have a long, long way to go to reach the fuel costs of Petrol or Diesel.

And even if they did, maintenance etc are all cheaper due to less moving parts.

GreeBo

BrownFinger wrote: »

Are garages going to stop selling petrol and diesel ?
I dont think so

They already make more from their shops and delis than they do from fuel.

If an EV owner has to spend 10 mins charging, what do you reckon they will do with that time? My money is on their money being spent in the shop.

Hence garages are going to devote more infra to EV charging than petrol pumps.
its only a matter of time.

elperello

BrownFinger wrote: »

Are garages going to stop selling petrol and diesel ?
I dont think so

I'd say you are right.
Petrol will still be needed for lawnmowers, outboard engines etc.

I was more thinking of where will the actual cars end up.
If the scrappage isn't near the market value of the car they might be exported to Africa.

ThunbergsAreGo

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

You are right Paddy. But this will change attitudes towards Diesels in particular. That parity in the price of diesel and petrol can be brought in with the stroke of a pen. I can see some headline grabbing politician bringing that in sooner rather than later. Also the push towards electric cars will happen sooner than they are saying. I feel they are flying a kite to see people’s reaction. With the recent popularity of the Green Party, all these ideas can be fast tracked.

What is this popularity, they got 8%!

ThunbergsAreGo

BrownFinger wrote: »

Are garages going to stop selling petrol and diesel ?
I dont think so

I actually hadnt thought of the impact of that on the industry, likely lead to a number of job losses

Micky 32

Had a spin in a Tesla electric car couple weeks back. Getting in it i was just underwelmed thinking how boring the drive would be..

Afterwards i was left scratching my head staring into space and questioning myself was that actually an EV! It felt like a 300bhp car!

Leonard Hofstadter

Danzy wrote: »

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You can't state and EV will be cheaper in the long run, you don't know Depreciation rates on current cars when the next crop start coming next year and you also don't know the cost of Electricity in the future. There's also insurance costs which I think could be off the wall once EV accidents are an every day thing.

The last Toyota Diesels are being sold now, the largest car maker in the world, out of that business in last year.

All their Petrols to be hybrid, very shortly.

The Govt announcement on cars is a moot point, the car companies are walking away from Electricity and Diesel.

Toyota are still making diesels, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, all they've done is stop making them for passenger cars. All of their commercial vehicles and SUVs, like the Land Cruiser, will continue to be available with diesel. They still make their own diesels by the way.

lalababa

Micky 32 wrote: »

Had a spin in a Tesla electric car couple weeks back. Getting in it i was just underwelmed thinking how boring the drive would be..

Afterwards i was left scratching my head staring into space and questioning myself was that actually an EV! It felt like a 300bhp car!

Ha..ha.. yeah like we all live in an episode of top gear! Why would anyone need more than 100BHP or 90 or 80 ect. on a public road? Unless pulling a big heavy trailer? What are you going to do with a 300BHP car on a public road? Beat everyone off the lights?? Doing so might actually fall into careless driving category. As harsh acceleration can be dangerous.

Mike9832

GreeBo wrote: »

Did you actually look at the spec though?
The "most basic" has pretty much what would be top spec in a non EV.

The tech is going to continue to evolve, if you continue to wait you will have paid for a couple of new EVs in running costs on your diesel.



EV's are already viable for people outside of cities.
60KM is nothing to an EV these days.
Kona and Nero do over 400KM to a charge.

It wont be forcibly be taken off you, it will be priced away from you.

A 180km range Ioniq for €31,000 is not the solution to replace Octavia diesel's as someone previous suggested.

Kona and Niro are mad money

Until manufacturers stop with the rip off prices, electric is a waste of time

I can't understand how a bloody Kona is €50,000 ( less €10,000 grants to bring it to €40,000 otr )

It's not perfect, but to estimate what an EV should cost for now

ICE version top spec + battery cost

A petrol Kona is €28,000 for an amazing spec + €10,000 for a battery brings it to €38,000, less €10,000 grants brings it down to €28,000

How in the hell can Hyundai keep a straight face charging bloody €40,000 for one after grants, laughing all the way to the bank

Goverment announcements like this are music to the ears of autogiants, going to fleece people changing over to electric

Really hate incentives, grants , goverment interference

Let the market decide

Are the goverment going to lower electricity unit cost now that diesel and petrol will be going up?

****

Micky 32

lalababa wrote: »

Ha..ha.. yeah like we all live in an episode of top gear! Why would anyone need more than 100BHP or 90 or 80 ect. on a public road? Unless pulling a big heavy trailer? What are you going to do with a 300BHP car on a public road? Beat everyone off the lights?? Doing so might actually fall into careless driving category. As harsh acceleration can be dangerous.

I have a 300bhp diesel car and there's no way i'm swapping it for a 100bhp one it's much more fun to drive. I hope that doesn't upset you too much or give you sleepless nights :rolleyes:

Anyway you missed the point of my post.

Danzy

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Toyota announced they are pushing their fully electric range forward by 5 years 2 weeks or so ago? Not walking away

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-electric/toyota-speeds-up-electric-vehicle-schedule-as-demand-heats-up-idUSKCN1T806X

Typo meant petrol and diesel.

Diesel is dead to big car makers and petrol isn't far behind.

Danzy

BrownFinger wrote: »

Are garages going to stop selling petrol and diesel ?
I dont think so

No but car manufacturers will stop making vehicles for them in any meaningful numbers.

lalababa

lalababa wrote: »

100BHP or 90 or 80

80BHP
80......GTFOH

InTheShadows

People are living in cloud cookoo land if they think Ireland has the infrastructure to deal with charging for all these proposed EV's.

tiberium

AMKC wrote: »

I fixed your post for you. It is no new gas boilers from 2025 but there will still be plenty of houses out there with both oil and gas boilers. I would say it will take another decade or two before there is no gas or oil boilers in any houses.

Also I think its great. I never liked diesel cars they are dirty but petrol were not too bad. I do think it will be great if there is a million electric cars on the roads in the next decade and less petrol as well as dirty diesel cars.

Where did you get that information the diesel is dirty? Older generation, yes.
But on new EURO6 diesel you can try to wipe the inner side on the outlet of the exhaust pipe and your tissue paper will remain clean...EURO6 is almost puffs out nothing...
Electric cars manufacturing process causes much more pollution and CO2 emissions (especially the battery) plus EVs has totally short range, too long to charge and too expensive.
The government are using the climate change to just push more taxes on us and does that brainlessly.

jon1981

jon1981 wrote: »

I wonder what the plan is for buses, trucks, vans, plant equipment...etc.

125,000 new cars sold last year in Ireland. Hitting 1m e-cars by 2030 is ambitious given the price point and lack of options such as reasonably priced SUV and MPV.

Try getting something like a V70 in an EV.

This would cause so much less issue if they said, no cars registered after 2025 will be allowed into XYZ.
It brings it in quicker and anyone buying a car after 2025 will buy EV, driving the EV 2nd hand market, allowing for less well off people to afford an EV easier in time for 2030

is_that_so

InTheShadows wrote: »

People are living in cloud cookoo land if they think Ireland has the infrastructure to deal with charging for all these proposed EV's.

It doesn't but part of the plan is to have it.

lalababa

I'm sorry. I just don't know how you can use all 300BHP on a public road. Is there a car computer app. that can measure it?

Micky 32

lalababa wrote: »

I'm sorry. I just don't know how you can use all 300BHP on a public road. Is there a car computer app. that can measure it?

Yes you can if you want to, quite handy for overtaking, i also like the feel of the acceleration, i love it Also more power especially torque makes the car more relaxing to drive without having to drive fast. When i get into my fathers 100bhp car i find the car more work and tiring to drive on a long drive.

But once again you're missing the point of my post about the Tesla. The point was EV's can be good.

jmayo

GreeBo wrote: »

So you are confirming that your old diesel is polluting and costing you more and more to keep on the road.

I dont think anyone said you have to buy a new car every few years and as for the gizmo comment :rolleyes:

And do you think that marvelous new EV, hybrid, whatever car is magically constructed without any pollution ?
And if it is electric or hybrid then where does all that lithium magically appear from ?

BTW how often do you replace your car ?

And yes you can make all the snide rolleyes you like, but if you just replace your fully functioning tablet, and especially your phone, just to get the latest one you are bloody well polluting the planet for no reason.

Likewise with the eejits running out to buy the likes of a new fridge with a bloody tablet.

Micky 32 wrote: »

Had a spin in a Tesla electric car couple weeks back. Getting in it i was just underwelmed thinking how boring the drive would be..

Afterwards i was left scratching my head staring into space and questioning myself was that actually an EV! It felt like a 300bhp car!

Well it does have around 12kg of lithium.

Of course the mining and refining of that has no pollution effects according to some round here. :rolleyes:

Danzy

InTheShadows wrote: »

People are living in cloud cookoo land if they think Ireland has the infrastructure to deal with charging for all these proposed EV's.

It isn't that big of a project over a decade.

The wider market will dictate though, we can stick with nearly all Diesel and Petrol and fall behind or pull the finger out and keep going.