Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Stop moaning ffs

My da mentioned earlier he was reading that the DUP have told Leo they’re open to the checks being done at ports here.
That moves things along somehwat.
Can’t get a hold of him to ask where he heard it

First Up

Front page of Sunday Times.

gooch2k9

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

My da mentioned earlier he was reading that the DUP have told Leo they’re open to the checks being done at ports here.
That moves things along somehwat.
Can’t get a hold of him to ask where he heard it

From the snippet not behind the paywall it just seems another attempt to sideline Brussels, make it an Ireland-UK negotiation only.

Stop moaning ffs

gooch2k9 wrote: »

From the snippet not behind the paywall it just seems another attempt to sideline Brussels, make it an Ireland-UK negotiation only.

I’d agree we need to stay within the Eu lines but this kind of is an internal matter. And if it’s going to open a door to progress this nonsense even a bit we should be open to it.
It makes sense and probably a precedent for us and the DUP agreeing on something

declanflynn

Maybe after a no deal Brexit the brexiteers in Ulster can move home to england and pick the fruit that the eastern europeans used to pick

declanflynn

There are many advantages of a no deal brexit for ireland

Capt'n Midnight

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

My da mentioned earlier he was reading that the DUP have told Leo they’re open to the checks being done at ports here.
That moves things along somehwat.
Can’t get a hold of him to ask where he heard it

Checks on UK goods or EU goods ? :pac:

Unless they also allow checks to be done in UK ports, Larne could still be a back door into the EU in the absence of border checks.

Stop moaning ffs

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Checks on UK goods or EU goods ? :pac:

Unless they also allow checks to be done in UK ports, Larne could still be a back door into the EU in the absence of border checks.

I didn’t write the article nor the idea.

gooch2k9

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’d agree we need to stay within the Eu lines but this kind of is an internal matter. And if it’s going to open a door to progress this nonsense even a bit we should be open to it.
It makes sense and probably a precedent for us and the DUP agreeing on something

It's not for us to make moves to progress this. We didn't ask for this. What we have asked for and received is solidarity from our fellow EU members. They're not going to be too supportive if we go off on a solo run on something that affects the entire single market. The UK have been told often enough, by both Barnier and the Irish government, that the negotiations are between the UK and EU.

If the DUP are open to this and it solves the impasse, let Johnson/Hunt take it to the EU negotiating team next week.

Lackadaisical

It's not just Ireland they try to isolate and discuss things with. The German government has had refer them back to Barnier multiple times over the last few years and I've seen similar attempts to do the same with several other countries.

Stop moaning ffs

gooch2k9 wrote: »

It's not for us to make moves to progress this. We didn't ask for this. What we have asked for and received is solidarity from our fellow EU members. They're not going to be too supportive if we go off on a solo run on something that affects the entire single market. The UK have been told often enough, by both Barnier and the Irish government, that the negotiations are between the UK and EU.

If the DUP are open to this and it solves the impasse, let Johnson/Hunt take it to the EU negotiating team next week.

Of course.
But of it keeps the wheels of it all turning govt here should absolutely raise it.


I’m probably shell shocked hearing the DUP are up for anything especially within this context but it’s encouraging

gooch2k9

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Of course.
But of it keeps the wheels of it all turning govt here should absolutely raise it.


I’m probably shell shocked hearing the DUP are up for anything especially within this context but it’s encouraging

Agreed, so long as it's via proper channels. They've been trying this divide and conquer tactic for nigh on three years now. It would be an awful shame to let it work now.

I'm not surprised the DUP have spoken up. They must feel the wolves circling after the past week in Westminster.

Stop moaning ffs

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Agreed, so long as it's via proper channels. They've been trying this divide and conquer tactic for nigh on three years now. It would be an awful shame to let it work now.

I'm not surprised the DUP have spoken up. They must feel the wolves circling after the past week in Westminster.

The lights changed ages ago.
The DUP didn’t see it and now know they’re about to pay a prove fatal to their existence and principles.

declanflynn

declanflynn wrote: »

Maybe after a no deal Brexit the brexiteers in Ulster can move home to england and pick the fruit that the eastern europeans used to pick

Unionists are of Scottish descent, it's Scotland they'll be going to, not England.

Jizique

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unionists are of Scottish descent, it's Scotland they'll be going to, not England.

Just in time for Scottish independence - where then? Bolton? Stoke? Clacton-on-Sea?

Jizique

Jizique wrote: »

Just in time for Scottish independence - where then? Bolton? Stoke? Clacton-on-Sea?

Nowhere, they're already at home, but their ancestry is Scottish

Strazdas

Jizique wrote: »

Just in time for Scottish independence - where then? Bolton? Stoke? Clacton-on-Sea?

I've always thought Scottish independence would be a catastrophe for NI unionism / loyalism. So much of their relationship with England mirrors that of the Scots and for Scotland to withdraw from the UK would be an absolute hammer blow.

First Up

Strazdas wrote:

I've always thought Scottish independence would be a catastrophe for NI unionism / loyalism. So much of their relationship with England mirrors that of the Scots and for Scotland to withdraw from the UK would be an absolute hammer blow.

Not so sure; the allegiance to the UK reflects more their hatred if ROI than anything else. They would settle for a union with Scotland or a go it alone full independence long before a UI.

An Claidheamh

First Up wrote: »

Not so sure; the allegiance to the UK reflects more their hatred if ROI than anything else. They would settle for a union with Scotland or a go it alone full independence long before a UI.

Scotland would not accept a union them though

First Up

An Claidheamh wrote:

Scotland would not accept a union them though

There could be a lot of moving parts to this before the dust settles but if Scotland wasn't up for it, then full independence ("our wee country") would be the unionist preference.

Mr.Nice Guy

Senator Neale Richmond pointing out a home truth for Jacob Rees-Mogg:

https://twitter.com/nealerichmond/status/1150477822110130176

Strazdas

First Up wrote: »

Not so sure; the allegiance to the UK reflects more their hatred if ROI than anything else. They would settle for a union with Scotland or a go it alone full independence long before a UI.

But a disintegrating UK would be disastrous in terms of NI unionism. The union of England and Scotland predated the addition of Ireland by 100 years - the rump UK state couldn't even use the union jack as flag any longer if Scotland left.

Scotland wouldn't want to be in a union with them and independence is a non runner.

First Up

Strazdas wrote:

Scotland wouldn't want to be in a union with them and independence is a non runner.

I wouldn't be confident they won't give it go. The expression "Our Wee Country" is in wide circulation up north. As I said, there's a lot of moving parts in this.

declanflynn

Imagine the face on Arlene when boris tells her no more cash for N.I.

Water John

On an earlier theme, we import wheat from the UK for flour milling. In fact most of this TMK comes from Eastern Scotland. We'll have a word with Nicola.

Declan, Arlene will be....ashen faced!!!

Strazdas

First Up wrote: »

I wouldn't be confident they won't give it go. The expression "Our Wee Country" is in wide circulation up north. As I said, there's a lot of moving parts in this.

It could definitely work if say 80% of the population were in favour of independence but the figures are nothing like that

First Up

Strazdas wrote:

It could definitely work if say 80% of the population were in favour of independence but the figures are nothing like that

Depends on the other options available. The status quo isn't one of them.

reslfj

First Up wrote: »

I wouldn't be confident they won't give it go. The expression "Our Wee Country" is in wide circulation up north. As I said, there's a lot of moving parts in this.

Independent countries need to pay for themselves. NI gets around £10bn a year from London or around £8bn/yr in cach, I think, without defence, the Queen...

This is very much money for a small and weak economy. Why does it seem all realism have evaporated?

I believe the GFA will be difficult to fit into a NI seeking independence, too?

Lars

Strazdas

reslfj wrote: »

Independent countries need to pay for themselves. NI gets around £10bn a year from London or around £8bn/yr in cach, I think, without defence, the Queen...

This is very much money for a small and weak economy. Why does it seem all realism have evaporated?

I believe the GFA will be difficult to fit into a NI seeking independence, too?

Lars

Indeed, doesn't the GFA allow for only two options....remaining in the UK or joining the Republic? It makes no reference to independence for NI.

Lackadaisical

First Up wrote: »

I wouldn't be confident they won't give it go. The expression "Our Wee Country" is in wide circulation up north. As I said, there's a lot of moving parts in this.

It'd be a *bit* hard to do considering they haven't managed to maintain a government very successfully.

It's been suspended for about 7 years in total and it's only been in operation for barely 20 years.

There's very little to devolve power to when they can't get their act together on keeping the system running.

I mean if the EU were to say grant it special status, who'd be responsible for that? Most states in federal/quasi federal countries like say Spain or Germany have functioning governments.

It would be very odd if it were depending on Westminster to legislate on its behalf while the UK was outside the EU and Northern Ireland had some status within the EU and the UK.