Catholic Ireland dead? **Mod Warning in Post #563**

yagan

So anyway back on topic. It might have been a more focused discussion if the question "is adherence to Roman Catholicism as ubiquitous as it was in the 1980s and before?"

Asking if Catholic Ireland is dead is very binary and doesn't take into account those with no adherence to the RCC but who identify with their parish community.

I'm guessing that most posters with a memory of daily Irish life in the 1980s and before would agree that being even able to discuss faith back then could be problematic.

Edit to expand on the last remark. We were sent off to our secondary school retreat in the 1980s and in the first discussion session the RCC priest leading opened the floor with something like "so what would anyone like to discuss?". No one was offering, so he encouraged us by saying "anything at all lads".

So I took up his offer and asked "what if God doesn't exist?"

"We won't be discussing that here. Anyone else?" Then he himself suggested a topic and off he went meandering for the rest of the session.

The rest of the retreat was about finding ways to sleep with your eyes open.

I have zero nostalgia for that Catholic Ireland.

Eggs For Dinner

Catholic Ireland is far from dead. It's tentacles are still embedded in our government, education and healthcare. It is passing, thankfully, but it will take a few more generations. In the meantime, live your life and love who you want to love

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941170#Comment_121941170

It's already very much a minority cult in terms of practising catholics, as I'm sure you know. Ticking a box on a census form to indicate what your parents inducted you into means very little indeed. Bringing your child out in a nice outfit on a couple of occasions also indicates very little, apart from a cultural desire to conform to local social norms while also showing off within those local social norms(!), and appeal to tradition.

These things are fine if your family believes in them, but these days for many if not most it's a sham and they're living a lie.

Again, that'd be fine too if they want to live a lie… but this outward conformity from half-arsed pseudo-RCCs in the loosest possible definition of that term is used as justification to impose religious instruction on non-RC kids in 89% of our primary schools, which the RCC doesn't pay for but still demands control of.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941422#Comment_121941422

It's hard to imagine a more useless and, frankly, thick, way to determine government policy on eduation than a census which most people will fill in on the basis of what religion they were baptised into, even though many of them no longer have anything or want anything to do with it.

In a supposedly secular state, the education you get isn't controlled by the religious beliefs of your neighbours, anyway.

So according to you we're now back to the childless pensioners in Donegal having an influence on what the parents of newborns in Cork will want for school availability in a few years time. That's utter and complete nonsense.

I'd question how you think that the census results in terms of religion have a relevance in terms of the organisation of our health system? Why would it? Hospitals are there to serve everyone regardless of religion, it's not the 18th century any more.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941931#Comment_121941931

When I was a child the loudest, internal, silent because I couldn't dare express it, laugh, was when a priest told our class with a straight face "the church is the people".

I mean, really?7

I thought lying was a sin.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944984#Comment_121944984

You are more than welcome to do what you want to do.

Problems arise when your co-religionists equate Catholicism with Irishness. Or when we have a supposedly secular state which has religious oaths for important roles of the State, like judges, or the Presidency.

Or when we have 89% of taxpayer-funded primary schools controlled by the Roman Catholic Church, in spite of the vile things they've done and covered up, and in spite of the desire of a huge number of parents for an alternative for their kids.

Fewer than 40% of weddings now take place in a Roman Catholic Church - adults who live freely are increasingly choosing to have nothing to do with that organisation.

But when it comes to enrolling their child in school, they're treated like morons and forced to conform to the status quo.

corks finest

Im happy enough with my RC faith

Thankfully

Iscreamkone

Each to their own and good luck to you

Just refrain from pushing it on those who think it’s just woo and then everyone will be happy.

KevMayo88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024470#Comment_122024470

What an obnoxious comment. Most people of faith go about their beliefs quietly- no need for you to issue a "warning" that previous poster. Nobody is going to crawl into your bed and convert you.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027015#Comment_122027015

Except when there are priests on Prime Time telling gay people that they aren't equal and shouldn't be allowed to get married, or telling women what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies, or having the Catholic ethos taught in school. Or the letters that come in the door, or the knock on the door to tell you about their lord and saviour.

Most people might go about it quietly, the religions themselves do not.

So, please save us the faux outrage there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027015#Comment_122027015

No, they'll crawl into our classrooms and try and convert our kids.

Iscreamkone

Priests should not be allowed to officiate at a ‘legal wedding ceremony’.
The church not allowing gays or divorcees from getting married in a church should disqualify them from legally marrying anyone. Discrimination should not be tolerated by the state.

If you want a church wedding then you would need a registry office wedding also to be legally married.

Also, take the angelus off the national broadcaster.

Hotblack Desiato

Church weddings are dying on their arse anyway, down to about 40% now and still in freefall

Who wants to drag themselves and all their guests to one place for the ceremony and another for the reception?

RTE is still too terrified to touch the Angelus but quite who it is exactly that they're afraid of is a good question

BaywatchHQ

As someone from Ulster we identify with our Catholic heritage more than someone south of border would. This is because we will always want to be different to the Ulster Scots. I am unaware if young people go to mass or not as I don't go, I do feel guilty for not going. I know the Protestant churches still is popular with young people with bible clubs, etc.

People seem to hate the Catholic church because of the mother and baby homes. What I don't understand about this is that you can forgive the British for their years of abuse on you but you can't forgive the church?

BaywatchHQ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933876#Comment_121933876

Liberal ideology promotes sexual degeneracy and promiscuity, you don't even have to be Christian to want to stand up to that. There would need to be many STD clinics built too.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031066#Comment_122031066

The last mother and baby home closed in the nineties. The cover-up of sexual abuse was still being uncovered into the 2000s. There's no indication that the church ever truly changed its attitude towards it. Many of the people responsible for such coverups are in respected positions in the church still, abusers tended to die from old age rather than face justice. The likes of JPII even engaged in such coverups and they made him a saint. So I struggle to see why any Irish person could have any respect for such an organization. Moral arbiters but won't even compensate victims.

Also just to clarify, I don't have any issue with the average Catholic. The organisation I loath and there's a pretty good reason to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031104#Comment_122031104

Just to clarify, are you calling LGBT people "degenerates"? Thankfully most Irish people don't agree with such an idiotic view.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029301#Comment_122029301

That 40% would be so much lower again if couples weren't trying to keep the peace and not offend their parents/grandparents.

How many couples have a church wedding and then never darken the door of a church again (until baptism time when the hypocrisy comes back to the fore).

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031104#Comment_122031104

You do realise that you can have a healthy and varied sex-life and still be safe, right? As long as you ignore the "advice" given to you by "Christian" religions.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031254#Comment_122031254

To be fair, LGBT was never mentioned but, as I said in the previous post, it doesn't matter: you can be straight and still enjoy the bounties of sexual activity. There are safety issues, yes, but now that we've told the church(es) to **** off we can actually pass said safety information on to the next generation.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033013#Comment_122033013

The post they responded to specified this "We are against discrimination of women and the LGBTQ community."…

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031066#Comment_122031066

People hate the Catholic church because it has shown very little remorse for the crimes it inflicted on the population at large. Its the very opposite of what we would expect from an individual who has committed a crime.

Iscreamkone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031104#Comment_122031104

Maybe we could turn the empty churches into STD clinics. They’d be of better use.

Why is the church so interested in sex? Other people’s sexual habits mostly?

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033479#Comment_122033479

Refugee and homeless accommodation would be the christian thing to do with empty churches. Treat others as you would want to be treated and all that.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031066#Comment_122031066

Bashing the Catholic church is both trendy and safe , same folks tend to pull their punches about other middle eastern religions ( I'm not even a believer in god BTW)

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033682#Comment_122033682

Its personal, its our church and its us that were subjected to various forms of abuse by it. Its not trendy - its how people feel about a corrupt money grabbing institution.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031066#Comment_122031066

Yawn. Must be the tenth time, if not more, you've posted the exact same thing across Boards.

RCC, Presbyterians, CoI - all three have you and your neighbours exactly where they want them, mired in mutual suspicion if not outright hatred based on religion, and turning to their church as a mark of identity. Today's collection will be silent… ££££

Your remarks on so-called "morality" are laughable.

And there are many many reasons other than the mother and baby homes to justifiably hate the Roman Catholic Church and what it really stands for - subjugation, abuse, power and financial gain.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033682#Comment_122033682

All three of them have grabbed power for themselves and abused it in the most vile way. But only one of them has done that in this country. So you can change the record.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028340#Comment_122028340

I remember going to a wedding of a friend in France, and they seem to have a divided up the church part and state part of the wedding. First you go to the town hall (or whereever the registry is) do a little cerimony there to stamp the marriage as official. By this stage my friend was already married as far as the French Republic was concerned, but we then all proceeded to the church for a wedding again but this time it was just for religious reasons.

I am convinced if the Church stopped being an official registrar of weddings, their bookings would crater in no time at all. I remember they threatened to do this in the run up to the gay-marriage referendum, but I felt that this was a bluff. They must know damned well that if people have to go to a registrar in addition to a church wedding, then you'll get plenty of people saving time and cash by just doing the registration part, and then the afters.

Also, FFS, RTE really should pull the Angelus. Most other national broadcasters manage a 6 O'Clock News, but RTE have a Six-One News to cater for something that was already a weird oddity by the 90's.

Shoog

It took a hell of a lot of social progress for people to feel comfortable criticizing the church - in the past there would have been consequences for doing so.

Hotblack Desiato

Still are, if you're a teacher not on a permanent contract, or hoping for a promotion.