Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston

Jones carries quite well...I'd like to see him get a few more chances...but not at the expense of David McCann

Paul Smeenus

Yeah, I think that's where we are. I think he and Timoney came to Ulster at the same time - I certainly think of them as contemporaries. And in Coeztee's long injury absences, Timoney got in and Jones didn't.

I'd rather have Jones than Clive Ross or Mike McComish, but now we actually have young lads potentially breaking through, Jones has gotten less gametime than either of them did.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's where we are. I think he and Timoney came to Ulster at the same time - I certainly think of them as contemporaries. And in Coeztee's long injury absences, Timoney got in and Jones didn't.

I'd rather have Jones than Clive Ross or Mike McComish, but now we actually have young lads potentially breaking through, Jones has gotten less gametime than either of them did.

Little harsh on Ross, albeit he wasn’t a world beater. Not sure Jones has had enough time to prove he’s a step up on Ross, he’s definitely more mobile. But Ross could carry and he did make a match wining turnover resulting a kick for goal in one of his last appearances.

Paul Smeenus

Yeah - Ross was grand. No world-beater but never let us down. Not everyone can be Stephen ferris or Chis Henry.

But I think Jones could be / could have been a bit more handy.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

But I think Jones could be / could have been a bit more handy.

Agree, never really got the opportunity. Though think the boat has now sailed. He’s tad light for no8 and similarly seems to be an issue for our backrowers. Bar Sean Reidy who punches well above his weight.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-transition-defence-france-5262928-Nov2020/

Am enjoying the responses to this article so far...

I think there was literally more criticism of Stockdale flying out of the line to successfully intercept against Wales and score a try in the 2018 Six Nations than there has been of Sexton flying out of the line, missing his bloody tackle and giving the French a git-wrapped opportunity in our last game.

Burkie1203

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-transition-defence-france-5262928-Nov2020/

Am enjoying the responses to this article so far...

I think there was literally more criticism of Stockdale flying out of the line to successfully intercept against Wales and score a try in the 2018 Six Nations than there has been of Sexton flying out of the line, missing his bloody tackle and giving the French a git-wrapped opportunity in our last game.

I think Sexton identified that there was forwards on the outside and hoped by flying up he would either intercept or force the player in possession to truck it up

Paul Smeenus

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I think Sexton identified that there was forwards on the outside and hoped by flying up he would either intercept or force the player in possession to truck it up

You're literally proving my point. I don't think if it had been Stockdale, there'd be posters talking about what he'd "hoped" would happen. They'd be tearing strips off him for getting the call wrong, leading to a French try.

I don't think any player abandons the defensive line hoping that a try will be scored against them. I imagine they all intend to force a play that will stop the opposition's attack. How fortunate for Sexton that he's assesed on his intentions, rather than whether he can pull these decisions off.

Paul Smeenus

Didn't want to sound narky but you're literally doing precisely what I was complaining about.

launish116

Worth a read!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-stats-irfu-s-young-talent-pathway-is-bearing-fruit-in-the-pro14-1.4406610

Stewart Moore only under 23 to have played all games so far this season.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Worth a read!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-stats-irfu-s-young-talent-pathway-is-bearing-fruit-in-the-pro14-1.4406610

Stewart Moore only under 23 to have played all games so far this season.

It's interesting, but this lazy "Ah, I'll just look at this season in Pro14" approach completely warps a proper understanding of far along our <24s actually are.

Utah_Saint

launish116 wrote: »

Worth a read!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-stats-irfu-s-young-talent-pathway-is-bearing-fruit-in-the-pro14-1.4406610

Stewart Moore only under 23 to have played all games so far this season.

Lyttle still only 23. Feels like he's been around for ages. He had a bad run with injuries. Hopefully he can put that all behind him.

bilston

Its definitely one of the encouraging things about the start the provinces have made to the season. Our young players are completely dominating the Pro 14. That's got to be a positive sign for the future for Ireland.

launish116

bilston wrote: »

Its definitely one of the encouraging things about the start the provinces have made to the season. Our young players are
completely dominating the Pro 14. That's got to be a positive sign for the future for Ireland.

Encouraging indeed, we have still a bit to go, though for once the players are there!

Next season really could see the flood gates open for young players switching provinces.

bayern

launish116 wrote: »

Encouraging indeed, we have still a bit to go, though for once the players are there!

Next season really could see the flood gates open for young players switching provinces.

that's a leap to make, provincial loyalty remains despite the IRFU's attempts to undercut it.

and given the finances, we could see a lot of older more expensive players retire/move on.

kingofthekong

launish116 wrote: »

Encouraging indeed, we have still a bit to go, though for once the players are there!

Next season really could see the flood gates open for young players switching provinces.

I wouldnt say floodgates but more likely guys from leinster system or age grades being filtered out to other provinces

launish116

bayern wrote: »

that's a leap to make, provincial loyalty remains despite the IRFU's attempts to undercut it.

and given the finances, we could see a lot of older more expensive players retire/move on.

I’m all for provincial loyalty.

This season already has had a few controversial academy/junior player move.

Also mentioned we have had a lot of young players presently getting game time and a lot of it. That’s great while Ireland camps running etc. When the seniors return, will those same young players be happy fighting for scraps again.

As you say finances are going to play a lot going forward. High paid seniors may move on/retire. This is were IFRU may interject and assist with more and more inter-provincial moves.

It’s coming wether we like it or not.

Only plus side I see is Ulster’s age bracket means, retaining a lot of players feasible (apart from centre).

kingofthekong

launish116 wrote: »

I’m all for provincial loyalty.

This season already has had a few controversial academy/junior player move.

Also mentioned we have had a lot of young players presently getting game time and a lot of it. That’s great while Ireland camps running etc. When the seniors return, will those same young players be happy fighting for scraps again.

As you say finances are going to play a lot going forward. High paid seniors may move on/retire. This is were IFRU may interject and assist with more and more inter-provincial moves.

It’s coming wether we like it or not.

Only plus side I see is Ulster’s age bracket means, retaining a lot of players feasible (apart from centre).

Interesting to see what happens with Ulster at center with: Hume, marshall, Moore, Mcloskey and Hyde

wonder if Mcloskey is eyeing up potential big money contracts abroad given lack of Ireland involvement

Hume, Moore and Hyde are all quality and I'm intrigued to see how that battle plays out

launish116

kingofthekong wrote: »

Hume, Moore and Hyde are all quality and I'm intrigued to see how that battle plays out

Could throw Curtis into that category also, if he can get fit and throw the Concussion issues.

Could easily see Ulster fighting to keep McCloskey at the expense of Marshal.

Paul Smeenus

I know McCloksey gives us go-forward, but Marshall is a better defender, much better defensive organiser, better with boot and can play 12 or 13.

Burkie1203

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

You're literally proving my point. I don't think if it had been Stockdale, there'd be posters talking about what he'd "hoped" would happen. They'd be tearing strips off him for getting the call wrong, leading to a French try.

I don't think any player abandons the defensive line hoping that a try will be scored against them. I imagine they all intend to force a play that will stop the opposition's attack. How fortunate for Sexton that he's assesed on his intentions, rather than whether he can pull these decisions off.

Well most people have pre determined ideas of how a player will have played and dont bother looking at what actually happened.

bilston

kingofthekong wrote: »

Interesting to see what happens with Ulster at center with: Hume, marshall, Moore, Mcloskey and Hyde

wonder if Mcloskey is eyeing up potential big money contracts abroad given lack of Ireland involvement

Hume, Moore and Hyde are all quality and I'm intrigued to see how that battle plays out

McCloskey is essential to Ulster until such times as ee uncover at least one and preferably two big ball carriers in the pack.

launish116

Zebre will be on a slight high from almost turning over the Scarlets and Nagle will have a stormer against us no doubt. So what team we hoping for?

1. O’Sullivan
2. Andrew
3. Milasinovich
4. Treadwell
5. Carter
6. Rea Snr
7. Reidy
8. Allison
9. Cooney
10. Lowry
11. Faddes
12. Marshall/Stewart (could really do with a rest)
13. Hume
14. Lyttle
15. McIlroy

16. Mcburney
17. Mcgrath/McCall
18. Moore/O’Toole (if fit)
19. O’Connor
18. Murphy
19. McCann
20. Mathewson
21. Madigan

Would love a 6/2 split but have concerns that Marshall/Faddes/Hume aren’t fully fit, leading us to a conservative bench. Not sure I’d risk Coetzee if he has a niggle from last week. Without McCloskey, Rea really needs to step up.

*6 day turn around to Scarlets game, following week.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Zebre will be on a slight high from almost turning over the Scarlets and Nagle will have a stormer against us no doubt. So what team we hoping for?

1. O’Sullivan
2. Andrew
3. Milasinovich
4. Treadwell
5. Carter
6. Rea Snr
7. Reidy
8. Allison
9. Cooney
10. Lowry
11. Faddes
12. Marshall/Stewart (could really do with a rest)
13. Hume
14. Lyttle
15. McIlroy

16. Mcburney
17. Mcgrath/McCall
18. Moore/O’Toole (if fit)
19. O’Connor
18. Murphy
19. McCann
20. Mathewson
21. Madigan

Would love a 6/2 split but have concerns that Marshall/Faddes/Hume aren’t fully fit, leading us to a conservative bench. Not sure I’d risk Coetzee if he has a niggle from last week. Without McCloskey, Rea really needs to step up.

*6 day turn around to Scarlets game, following week.

If we've six days until the Scarlets, we've got to let youngsters have a shot at Zebre. Wouldn't start Cooney if Mathewson is fit, nor Reidy. Nor Carter - if he is indeed in any way part responsible for our turnaround in set pieces, save him for the Scarlets.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

If we've six days until the Scarlets, we've got to let youngsters have a shot at Zebre. Wouldn't start Cooney if Mathewson is fit, nor Reidy. Nor Carter - if he is indeed in any way part responsible for our turnaround in set pieces, save him for the Scarlets.

Tricky one isn’t it.

Still need a team back bone there. Zebre could still be a banana skin. Might be a game of who needs rest and who can we rotate without completely changing the team.

6 day turn around might force Dans hand more than we’ve seen!

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-transition-defence-france-5262928-Nov2020/

Am enjoying the responses to this article so far...

I think there was literally more criticism of Stockdale flying out of the line to successfully intercept against Wales and score a try in the 2018 Six Nations than there has been of Sexton flying out of the line, missing his bloody tackle and giving the French a git-wrapped opportunity in our last game.

Will be interesting to see the narrative if the Irish lineout malfunctions this evening.

Hope it goes really well as I think we have a really strong tight 5 this evening

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

Will be interesting to see the narrative if the Irish lineout malfunctions this evening.

Hope it goes really well as I think we have a really strong tight 5 this evening

I think we know exactly who will get the blame.

If it's better, it'll be down to POM and Kelleher.

Paul Smeenus

Heineken Champions Cup Fixtures announced

Friday 11 December 2020
Ulster Rugby vs. Toulouse, 8pm at Kingspan Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 19 December 2020
Gloucester Rugby vs. Ulster Rugby, 3:15pm at Kingsholm Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 16 January 2021
Ulster Rugby vs. Gloucester Rugby, 1pm at Kingspan Stadium (Channel 4)

Sunday 24 January 2021
Toulouse vs. Ulster Rugby, 3.15pm (UK / Irish time) at Stade Ernest Wallon (BT Sport)

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Heineken Champions Cup Fixtures announced

Friday 11 December 2020
Ulster Rugby vs. Toulouse, 8pm at Kingspan Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 19 December 2020
Gloucester Rugby vs. Ulster Rugby, 3:15pm at Kingsholm Stadium (BT Sport)

Saturday 16 January 2021
Ulster Rugby vs. Gloucester Rugby, 1pm at Kingspan Stadium (Channel 4)

Sunday 24 January 2021
Toulouse vs. Ulster Rugby, 3.15pm (UK / Irish time) at Stade Ernest Wallon (BT Sport)

Then throw in between them matches

December 26th Connacht v Ulster
January 2nd Ulster v Munster
January 9th Leinster v Ulster

That’s a serious 7 weeks of continuous rugby.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Then throw in between them matches

December 26th Connacht v Ulster
January 2nd Ulster v Munster
January 9th Leinster v Ulster

That’s a serious 7 weeks of continuous rugby.

Oof