Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Hands Like Flippers

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

It is. Although Sexton's not much younger than McIlroy, in fairness.

Jordi Murphy weakest backrow. Again.

Both Sexton and McIlroy same age, 2000 birthdays.

kingofthekong

Mcann really should be getting gametime agasint Zebre ...


J.Murphy offers not a single thing that Mcann couldnt be delivering for Ulster ...hes no longer at the same level

bilston

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Both Sexton and McIlroy same age, 2000 birthdays.

Interesting nonetheless that McIlroy is ahead of Sexton in the pecking order.

Of course Sexton seemed to miss a lot of last season due to injury and playing 7s, while McIlroy was playing for the Ireland U20s etc.

Is McIlroy not really a 15? I've only ever seen him play wing whether for Ulster or Ireland U20s, but have a feeling he playes FB at school maybe?

Utah_Saint

bilston wrote: »

Interesting nonetheless that McIlroy is ahead of Sexton in the pecking order.

Of course Sexton seemed to miss a lot of last season due to injury and playing 7s, while McIlroy was playing for the Ireland U20s etc.

Is McIlroy not really a 15? I've only ever seen him play wing whether for Ulster or Ireland U20s, but have a feeling he playes FB at school maybe?

Hopefully its just a case of sexton getting up to speed on 15's. Would like to see him get a run soon.

launish116

bilston wrote: »

Interesting nonetheless that McIlroy is ahead of Sexton in the pecking order.

Of course Sexton seemed to miss a lot of last season due to injury and playing 7s, while McIlroy was playing for the Ireland U20s etc.

Is McIlroy not really a 15? I've only ever seen him play wing whether for Ulster or Ireland U20s, but have a feeling he playes FB at school maybe?

Maybe more rounded player? His skills in the air looked good. Did McIlroy move to fullback when Lyttle came on? Wouldn’t mind him getting more time there.

Really feel like that was a chance missed to let more academy players have ago. Murphy really is a ghost of his former selve.

Fingers crossed Marty Moore hasn’t crocked himself.

Paul Smeenus

I thought Gilroy went back to 15?

I do think Dan is just focussing on racking up the points while we can. Having so few players away is a real opportunity to out-muscle other teams. I think some of the heavily loaded teams have been about getting the TBP - 5 points rather than 4. We know Dan is pragmatic - giving young players first caps away to Leinster, when we don't expect to win etc. So we might actually see McCann or ReaJea togging out in games that Dan is confident we'll win but doesn't expect us to get close to a TBP.

It's been really noticeable that we have been making a clear effort to keep battering away at try lines with the forwards at the start of this season - to just keep going rather than than switching to the backs, as we would usually do, when enough opposition players are pulled into the ruck/tight defence. I said it last night - I think there's a clear element of setting ourselves specific ways to play or goals within the game, in order to improve them. The most gratifying thing last night was the accuracy we showed - the thing that always let us down pre-McFarland (or perhaps pre-Soper / Roddy Grant?) We used to get turned over reasonably regularly hammering at the opposition line under Kiss et al - we are much more ruthless and efficient there now.

I think the constant going to the scrum at the end of the first half against the Blues was part of that - "you forwards keep going 'til youse come away with a try." In a European game, that ball comes out to a clever line by one of the backs. These games are viewed as an opportunity to try things out.

We'll stop getting it all our own way soon enough - especially over the inter-pros at Christmas. Then, I expect to see our ridiculous points lead over the Ospreys eaten away a bit. And Glasgow will certainly improve. But can they really close that gap?

Paul Smeenus

Also, there won't be a rusty third choice player in the squad. Shanahan, Johnston, Jones, Milasinovich, Warwick/McCall, Timoney, Gilroy, Faddes - all getting gametime. They might not be fantastic, but everyone's going to have at least a couple games under their belt any times they're needed.

I don't think Dan is "building" this season the way the intention was last season (with us over-achieving). I think he wants us to stay in touch with Leinster and have a proper rattle this season.

launish116

Was also thinking is McIlroy getting exposure both on merit and to test our current resources, planning for potential departures/negotiations for next season likely beginning?

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Was also thinking is McIlroy getting exposure both on merit and to test our current resources, planning for potential departures/negotiations for next season likely beginning?

We know we're losing Ludik at the end of the season. So that's a fullback down for next season.

If Addison recovers, he'll be in and around the Irish squad. Lowry might be similarly called up (wider squad certainly), or may be lining out more at ten. So it might be that we need a full-time second choice FB.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

We know we're losing Ludik at the end of the season. So that's a fullback down for next season.

If Addison recovers, he'll be in and around the Irish squad. Lowry might be similarly called up (wider squad certainly), or may be lining out more at ten. So it might be that we need a full-time second choice FB.

Possible Faddes also

Maybe a case of see how McIlroy is now so we know what we need next season.

Realistically if that was the case with both Faddes/Ludik gone and McIlroy being found to be an able replacement. it would have a significant impact financially.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Possible Faddes also

Maybe a case of see how McIlroy is now so we know what we need next season.

Realistically if that was the case with both Faddes/Ludik gone and McIlroy being found to be an able replacement. it would have a significant impact financially.

Well Madigan and Mathewson will have finished as well.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Well Madigan and Mathewson will have finished as well.

Would they warrant an extension? Even to give young guns another year to develop.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Would they warrant an extension? Even to give young guns another year to develop.

It's a simple question, but there's so many factors in the answer.

Firstly, there's the stark new realities of post-(hopefully!) Covid finances. They have the potential to lay waste to teams. We should be sheltered, to a degree, by the IRFU, but there's just simply not going to be the same money about.

We might need to lose players we'd ideally to otherwise keep. We might need to lose players we feel we need, because we simply can't afford them. Academy players are going to become more and more crucial, simply because they are more affordable than Irish journeymen.

We have had a bit of a clear-out. There's not too many players not pulling their weight; who aren't contributing.

If we need three players in each position in the front row, do we lose one of Kane or Milasinovich, one of McCall or Warwick? Bear in mind, O'Toole and quite possibly O'Sullivan are likely to start featuring in Irish squads in the next year or so. Also - when does McGrath's central contract run out?

Ludik will be gone - Faddes might have to follow, as I'd say he's on very decent money. Who else could we lose out of the backs? Gilroy? Curtis, if he can't get fit? Regrettable, but Hume and Moore are properly jostling for the midfield now.

John Andrew has been putting in some excellent performances - at the start of the season I'd have said he was under pressure, but he's comfortably been better than McBurney. Herring's not getting any younger, so we might need to retain both - we got rid of Zack McCall last season.

So where do cuts come from? We can't spare any second rows, unless they decide O'Connor Jnr won't break through. In backrow, Jordi Murphy can go, but I don't know when his contract is up. Jones seems to be getting a crack of the whip now - otherwise I'd have wondered about him moving on.

We don't have any amazing talent at nine or ten that are currently breaking through. Much closer at ten, where we have Johnston and potentially Lowry. So if I had to keep one, I'd keep Mathewson. But Madigan has played a pivotal role in winning us a semi-final.

The one easing factor in all this is that the majority of teams in Britain and Ireland will be in the same boat, financially.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Firstly, there's the stark new realities of post-(hopefully!) Covid finances. They have the potential to lay waste to teams. We should be sheltered, to a degree, by the IRFU, but there's just simply not going to be the same money about. We might need to lose players we'd ideally to otherwise keep. We might need to lose players we feel we need, because we simply can't afford them. Academy players are going to become more and more crucial, simply because they are more affordable than Irish journeymen.

Couldn’t agree more, really not sure people are grasping how much COVID is going to devastate the league and financially effect teams. Academy players are really going to become a serious commodity and even more important the right players join and get the chance to progress within.

If we need three players in each position in the front row, do we lose one of Kane or Milasinovich, one of McCall or Warwick? Bear in mind, O'Toole and quite possibly O'Sullivan are likely to start featuring in Irish squads in the next year or so. Also - when does McGrath's central contract run out?

McGrath is signed up to 2022, but I fear he’s going down the Murphy route. Could see Warwick being let go and more emphasis on fast tracking Reid (tbf Munster loan is hopefully to accommodate that). Don’t see any of the tight heads going anywhere.

Ludik will be gone - Faddes might have to follow, as I'd say he's on very decent money. Who else could we lose out of the backs? Gilroy? Curtis, if he can't get fit? Regrettable, but Hume and Moore are properly jostling for the midfield now.

Faddes also 30 now, normally IRFU only hand out short contracts. He’d maybe want one more big cash contract elsewhere. Both Gilroy & Curtis signed up to 2021, though Dan hasn’t been scared to tear up contracts. I do think there is more to McIlroy being fast tracked, value for money and gives us an idea who’s going to meet the cut for next season.

John Andrew has been putting in some excellent performances - at the start of the season I'd have said he was under pressure, but he's comfortably been better than McBurney. Herring's not getting any younger, so we might need to retain both - we got rid of Zack McCall last season.

Not sure on either Andrew or McBurneys contracts. Though been a little disappointed with McBurney this season, hasn’t built on the hype and Andrew has been very good. If the academy hookers were maybe a year or two older, could of seen a cut for McBurney.

So where do cuts come from? We can't spare any second rows, unless they decide O'Connor Jnr won't break through. In backrow, Jordi Murphy can go, but I don't know when his contract is up. Jones seems to be getting a crack of the whip now - otherwise I'd have wondered about him moving on.

Murphy signed up until 2022.

Timoney was signed up in 2018 so could be inline for a cut. Think this really depends how McCann/Rea/Allison push on this season. Realistically if there gonna step up, I’d be wanting them to get his game time.

Jones showed up well last night, albeit against Zebre. Though I think Rea Snr has the physical edge and Jones has skill/mobility. He just needs to add a couple more kgs.

Personally I’d keep O’Connor jnr, took Alan a season or two hit his consistent peaks. If he can match Alan be solid enough squad player. Wouldn’t mind seeing him at blindside.

We don't have any amazing talent at nine or ten that are currently breaking through. Much closer at ten, where we have Johnston and potentially Lowry. So if I had to keep one, I'd keep Mathewson. But Madigan has played a pivotal role in winning us a semi-final.

Harsh on Madigan but if it’s a choice between him and Mathewson. Mathewson maybe takes it. I’d trust Lowry/Johnston/Curtis at 10 more than unknowns at 9 after Shanahan.

The one easing factor in all this is that the majority of teams in Britain and Ireland will be in the same boat, financially.

True and I think we’re in a far better position than we realise. Include IFRU financial backing. The Academy genuinely starting to get its act together. We now have home grown talent at a fraction of the cost wanting to stay and play for Ulster. Also foresee NIQs being curtailed and more a focus on skill up an promote from within.

If even McCann/Rea/McIlroy push on and make squad player level by end of the season. Financially that could make a massive difference.

bilston

One thing I've been wondering about the Academy is how will the intake happen next year?

There is no schools or club rugby being played, if that remains the case how will Kieron Campbell know who to select? I'm sure they know who the players to watch would have been this year at U18 level, but a lot can happen at that age. Likewise players in the sub academy like Jude Postelwaite who we spoke about last week aren't getting the chance to play AIL, so again how will Ulster make an assessment on them. Have all A games be scrapped as well? There was one and then the 7s tournament, where Ulster went well.

Hopefully the situation improves after Christmas, but the way the vaccines seem to be working I don't see life returning to normal before late Spring so it will be interesting to see how it works.

The Lost Sheep

bilston wrote: »

One thing I've been wondering about the Academy is how will the intake happen next year?

There is no schools or club rugby being played, if that remains the case how will Kieron Campbell know who to select? I'm sure they know who the players to watch would have been this year at U18 level, but a lot can happen at that age. Likewise players int he sub academy like Jude Postelwaite who we spoke about last week aren't getting the chance to play AIL, so again how will Ulster make an assessment on them. Have all A games be scrapped as well?

Hopefully the situation improves after Christmas, but the way the vaccines seem to be working I don't see life returning to normal before late Spring so it will be interesting to see how it works.

Pick wider group at a sub academy level and assess players after theyve played. If no rugby this season or very little then very hard to pick players based on little rugby this season and 3/4 of last season.

We dont know about A games as their schedule is a bit all over shop and games have been added/removed late all the time...

launish116

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Pick wider group at a sub academy level and assess players after theyve played. If no rugby this season or very little then very hard to pick players based on little rugby this season and 3/4 of last season.

We dont know about A games as their schedule is a bit all over shop and games have been added/removed late all the time...

Would like to think IRFU would try and get some provincial A & U20 games going. The lack of AIL & A games is surely a concern even for the current academy players, especially the players not getting senior game time.

On the other hand, for our forwards it’s the perfect opportunity to have a perlonged pre-season and try build some timber.

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Would like to think IRFU would try and get some provincial A & U20 games going. The lack of AIL & A games is surely a concern even for the current academy players, especially the players not getting senior game time.

On the other hand, for our forwards it’s the perfect opportunity to have a perlonged pre-season and try build some timber.

This would explain why Ulster loaded their 7s team with Academy players so they would get game time.

Did the other provinces do the same?

I seem to remember thinking Ulster had generally stronger squads that the other provinces

Squidgy Black

bilston wrote: »

This would explain why Ulster loaded their 7s team with Academy players so they would get game time.

Did the other provinces do the same?

I seem to remember thinking Ulster had generally stronger squads that the other provinces

Pretty much all did. Leinster's was basically whoever was available from the academy that wouldn't be in the wider squad and then the sub-academy. With the occasional senior player who needed game time getting an appearance in the earlier rounds, like Johnson/Shanahan but round 3 at least was all academy/sub academy for the 4 provinces.

launish116

bilston wrote: »

This would explain why Ulster loaded their 7s team with Academy players so they would get game time.

Did the other provinces do the same?

I seem to remember thinking Ulster had generally stronger squads that the other provinces

Can’t say I know the other squads to well. Last season our A’s were definitely stronger than we’re used to. Potentially in general we probably have the most rounded/talented intake across the board. Not sure we deliberately fielded a stronger squad. Squad injury profile also likely helped.

Leinster, keeping in mind a lot of their squad were replacing seniors called up to Ireland. They were always gonna struggle.

Paul Smeenus

I think our squad was significantly stronger.

Don't really mind if McGrath isn't amazeballs, if we're still effectively getting him for free. If he's reliable while Reid comes through, that's good enough. Did I imagine it or is Milasinovich supposed to be an ambi-prop as well? Is that even safe these days?

Hadn't even thought about the issues facing sub/Academy intake. Will be a real test for a newly improved, fit-for-purpose body.

Burkie1203

Rumours Coetzee is going to the Bulls next summer

launish116

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Rumours Coetzee is going to the Bulls next summer

Saw that rousing it’s head again on Twitter. He’s in contract till 2022. Supposedly it was being arranged but fell through before start of season.

launish116

Injury update

Ulster Rugby has no fresh injury concerns arising from the game against Zebre.

Jack McGrath (back) and Tom O’Toole (ankle) have now reintegrated into team training following their recent injuries, and it is hoped both will be available for selection over the next 1-2 weeks.

James Hume is currently rehabilitating a groin injury sustained in the game against Dragons.

Louis Ludik sustained a concussion in the recent game against Cardiff and is following the graduated Return to Play process.

Angus Curtis (knee), Rob Baloucoune (hamstring), and Will Addison (back) continue to rehab their longer term injuries.

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Injury update

Ulster Rugby has no fresh injury concerns arising from the game against Zebre.

Jack McGrath (back) and Tom O’Toole (ankle) have now reintegrated into team training following their recent injuries, and it is hoped both will be available for selection over the next 1-2 weeks.

James Hume is currently rehabilitating a groin injury sustained in the game against Dragons.

Louis Ludik sustained a concussion in the recent game against Cardiff and is following the graduated Return to Play process.

Angus Curtis (knee), Rob Baloucoune (hamstring), and Will Addison (back) continue to rehab their longer term injuries.

Good news on McGrath and O'Toole and hopefully Hume won't be out for too long

Utah_Saint

launish116 wrote: »

Injury update

Ulster Rugby has no fresh injury concerns arising from the game against Zebre.

Jack McGrath (back) and Tom O’Toole (ankle) have now reintegrated into team training following their recent injuries, and it is hoped both will be available for selection over the next 1-2 weeks.

James Hume is currently rehabilitating a groin injury sustained in the game against Dragons.

Louis Ludik sustained a concussion in the recent game against Cardiff and is following the graduated Return to Play process.

Angus Curtis (knee), Rob Baloucoune (hamstring), and Will Addison (back) continue to rehab their longer term injuries.

#

How bad was Baloucoune's injury?

bilston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

#

How bad was Baloucoune's injury?

Very bad I think...could be career altering for a winger

launish116

Utah_Saint wrote: »

#

How bad was Baloucoune's injury?

Bad I thought, hamstring torn from bone like O’Connels supposedly.

Paul Smeenus

Yeah - will be galling if he doesn't come back the same. Good news on O'Toole though.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yeah - will be galling if he doesn't come back the same.

Indeed, looked to have a very big future. Always came across very grounded and hard working!

Good news on O'Toole though.

Could really do with him this week. Let Milasinovich start and O’Toole bench. Let Moore have a well deserved rest, he’l be needed for Edinburgh.