Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199936#Comment_122199936

Quite a lot to unpack there Paul.

The first point about out half makes sense, but we'll only know if it was the correct move if Morgan turns out to be a good player. I still wonder was signing Prendergast on loan for a year, therefore affording time for Ulster to really scour the market for a 10 an option. Given the number of IQ 10s at Leinster I don't see how the IRFU can insist on NIQs at other provinces if those guys won't move. But if Morgan turns out to be a good player then all is good.

The point about Leinster schools having massive budgets is an interesting one. Aren't these rugby school fees down there ridiculous, 40k a year or something nuts like that? Our education system is obviously different so the money just isn't going to be there to go beyond a Head Coach. Even the likes of Inst and Methody can't remotely compete with that and in many respects they punch way above their weight in how they do against Dublin schools.

I'm not totally sold on how they are building up our young players so much. Ferris, Trimble and Bowe were all playing for Ireland at 20/21. The current youngsters are nowhere near that level. But we'll see. Ireland are a better team now than they were in the mid noughties when those guys broke through so it's harder to get into the team.

Also interesting about TV audiences going up. The URC has really developed in the last two years. Take the Welsh and Zebre out and you've a really competitive league. Ive more faith in Zebre improving than the Welsh. The league is better than the Premiership now, quite comfortably IMO. The next round of TV Rights could be interesting and might lead to a financial boost.

As for fans not renewing...well I could have understood that sentiment in Feb/Mar...but things are definitely moving in the right direction, and anyone who was at the Leinster game last week would surely want more of that. Obviously we don't play Leinster in the sun all the time, but experiences like that will have people coming back.

Paul Smeenus

Agreed, there's a touch of "why, these youngsters right here now are the best ever!" about bigging up the current crop, but the honesty about missing a generation of talent was a mea culpa I was glad to hear.

I like Richie and Hugh. We have a patchy squad, but Richie's desire to have the players enjoy themselves is a direct opposite to Dan.

There was also a load of flannel that I didn't bother summarising

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200004#Comment_122200004

40k a year for a private school? the amount of incorrect information fired around is incredible

Not sure why a Ulster Q&A is talking about Leinster schools model, what difference does it make to Ulster what Leinster are doing? did they also have a Q&A session on Connacht and Munster?

Paul Smeenus

Wow. Defensive much?

Leinster's pathway is the envy of pretty much every other club rugby team in the world. The Ulster CEO was explaining that there are structural reasons Ulster can't replicate that pathway, so we have to find our own way to excel. Ulster needs to work out what's best for our own situation and strengths.

Is that alright? Do you approve? What address would you prefer the Ulster CEO wrote to you at, to ask your permission to mention your beloved Leinster, Random Internet Guy?

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200894#Comment_122200894

FaIr enough, a quick Google reveals I was wildly wrong about school fees in Dublin...my bad...just repeating what somebody (from Dublin ironically) told me.

I suppose the reason Leinster was brought up was because you have a very successful school and academy set up. Rather than taking the hump maybe take it as a compliment.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200894#Comment_122200894

Well, Fettes College in Edinburgh is £14,700 per semester for boarders so £44,100 per academic year. 51,800 Euro. Gordonstoun, near me is £53,115 per year for boarding students. My drinking buddy has 2 children there. 62,400 Euro.

Perhaps whoever made the remark was assuming the fees would be similar. I understand that private fees in Ireland at places like St Columba's, Clongowes Woods, Glenstall are about half these sums.

bilston

Things might get even harder Academy wise in Ulster if the Tories miraculously win the General Election and Northern Irish 18 year olds have to choose between a year in the army or community service !

Paul Smeenus

Ulster should volunteer to have youngsters play as their community service. Bound to uncover some rough diamonds.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203272#Comment_122203272

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203273#Comment_122203273

The annual fees flowing into Dublin schools from the parents of pupils doesn't tell the full story.

They get money from other sources too.

salmocab

on the kit deal, I understand from someone in Leinster that Castore gave a ridiculously good deal way more than anyone else was offering so I would say it’s safe enough to assume Ulster got a good deal off them too.

ljsulster

Ulster CEO said it was the best kit deal Ulster has ever had

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203273#Comment_122203273

Columba's is supposed to be the most expensive at around €27k a year, but wouldn't be a renowned rugby producing hotbed - only player I can think of in the past 20 years of note is Ian McKinley.

The 7 day boarding fees in places like Clongowes, Blackrock & Glenstal would be in line with what you're saying.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204149#Comment_122204149

Is that unique to schools in Dublin/Leinster do you think?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205274#Comment_122205274

Yes.

I'm not talking about some local business buying a few kits here.

Deramore

The grammar schools are finding it increasingly difficult to get teachers to train teams and parents might need to start paying. Coleraine Grammar hired Kieran Campbell as DoR and I think the money for him was mostly raised by the parents

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205653#Comment_122205653

And you're speaking from what position of authority on this?

There are relatively expensive private schools in Ulster and Munster too, and the parents of the kids going there are wealthy. In some cases they are donating above and beyond school fees to the school. To suggest otherwise is complete nonsense.

Deramore

There is one private rugby playing school in Ulster, and the parents only pay fees, which are £3,470 per year.

Paul Smeenus

(15-9) Ethan McIlroy, Mike Lowry, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O’Connor (C), Cormac Izuchukwu, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andy Warwick, Scott Wilson, Harry Sheridan, Matty Rea, Nathan Doak, Jude Postlethwaite, Stewart Moore.

Good team. There's some weaknesses in the Munster team - centres, hooker - but home advantage will be massive. Think we should come away with an lbp for being within seven.

Utah_Saint

Is Izzy being seen as a 6 from now on, with Sheridan a 2nd rower?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206056#Comment_122206056

Posted this previously, but will post again here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032830#Comment_122032830

Deramore

those fees are all wrong and i don’t know where you got them. For reference, I have kids in a grammar school in Ulster and know parents from some of the schools mentioned. Are you taking prep fees or something? For example, BRA is £140 per year plus optional £300 https://www.belfastroyalacademy.com/parents/fees

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206326#Comment_122206326

Yeah, those figures are nonsense. I went to Inst and didn't have to pay fees, as I got the 11+. A friend's son is at Methody, and they don't have fees.

Except for Campbell, that figure might be right.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206326#Comment_122206326

Not 100% sure where I originally saw some of these (suspect it was here: https://www.mytopschools.co.uk/belfast-royal-academy/ ), and it does look like the BRA fee is wrong, but the other fees are right:

Royal School Dungannon - https://www.royaldungannon.com/boarding-fees/

Campbell College - https://www.campbellcollege.co.uk/admissions/fees

The RBAI fees page keeps crashing, but multiple sources suggest the fees they're in the range I outlined: https://www.mytopschools.co.uk/royal-belfast-academical/

Royal School Armagh - https://royalschool.com/admissions/fees-bursaries/

Paul Smeenus

So what I wonder is, what number of lads at Inst (RBAI) passed their 11+ and don't pay fees.

Deramore

Armagh says not chargeable to UK or Irish passport holders. RBAI is about a grand but it’s not compulsory. Campbell is £3470. I’m guessing this is all some effort on your part to show that the fee paying schools aren’t a massive advantage to Leinster. Don’t know why some Leinster fans are so defensive about it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206544#Comment_122206544

Once again, you're not presenting an accurate picture. I'm giving you the actual fees pages from the relevant schools to support my point here.

Royal School Armagh says tuition fees aren't charged to UK & Irish passport holdings, but there is no such qualification alongside the boarding fees (which were the ones I posted).

The Campbell boarding fees equally are exactly what I posted.

You're comparing apples with oranges here by comparing the 7-day boarding fees for Leinster schools to day pupil fees for Ulster schools - when the day pupil fees in Leinster are broadly in line with the Ulster fees.

I’m guessing this is all some effort on your part to show that the fee paying schools aren’t a massive advantage to Leinster. Don’t know why some Leinster fans are so defensive about it

It's people here who keep bringing it up, and lying about it effectively, and implying Leinster is the only place in the world that has boarding schools, or school fees, or excellent quality rugby facilities.

Deramore

not talking about boarding fees, obviously you have to pay to board. I doubt there’s more than a couple of hundred kids boarding in all of ulster, probably not many more in Leinster. It’s the thousands of fee paying day pupils where Leinster have the advantage. Fee paying day pupils outside of Campbell don’t exist up here. It’s ok to admit that this a massive advantage to Leinster. We don’t mind, we wish we were rich too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206760#Comment_122206760

Well the goalposts keep moving - the original claim was there were no fee paying schools in Ulster, and now it's been diluted down to just talking about day fees.

The rugby facilities in the main Ulster rugby schools are still excellent, and the quality of coaching appears very good. Most of these schools still seem to go on tours/trips to play teams overseas etc. The notion that the likes of St Michael's are being coached by Andy Farrell and have gold plated rugby balls while the poor lads in the likes of Campbell etc are stuck with nothing more than a battered old Gilbert ball is a complete nonsense.

Paul Smeenus

Look, I had 14 points I took from the Ulster CEO fan forum, and shared them on here for those that hadn't heard it.

Clo-Clo was straight in to police the solitary point that referenced Leinster, and went full Will Smith - "keep my province's name out of your mouth!"

We'd already moved on to whether the current generation in the Academy was being over-hyped.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207047#Comment_122207047

As an outsider looking it, I was very interested in those points mentioned by the CEO. Thanks for sharing