Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Paul Smeenus

Why? How good should a team be, who had to fire their head coach and get another in at short notice, who has had a short tour to SA and two away games to French teams in Europe?

I mean, did he think Murphy would rock up and all would be fixed? Did he think Richie's five weeks at the tiller would have us firing on all cylinders again? Does he feel our new coach hasn't used those five weeks to the utmost?

I doubt a month and a half ago Richie Murphy could have picked Izzy or Andy Warwick out of a line-out. We had an emergency coaxh-ectony, fired the CEO amongst complete carnage, and Ferris' point is what? These players can play better than this?

Wow. What insight. He can just take the rest of the season off commentary, safe in the knowledge that we'll scrape some wins but mostly be crap. Thanks Stevie.

awec

One thing that became abundantly clear this weekend is that Lowry is a liability at 15. He is just far too small. Any half decent side will just land the ball on him and they'll win it more often than not purely by having a taller chaser.

Doak is not the answer at 10, and Flannery isn't good enough to overtake Doak. Without a 10 signing we are pissing into the wind next season.

We cannot afford to carry Lowry at 15 and Doak at 10, it is killing us.

Utah_Saint

Lowry should be a winger only from now on.

I suspect we could see a Leinster 10 make the move up North. Not sure which one but it makes the most sense considering they have a large group fighting for 1 spot

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021392#Comment_122021392

That would make sense. It's a way to get more opportunities. Not sure who, but it's definitely an option for someone like Tector. Maybe HB?

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021392#Comment_122021392

Lowry should be playing in the AIL….not the URC. He is a nippy but not very fast little guy…..and that's it. He can't catch securely and he is in modern terms a tiny, weak rugby player who can't kick other than kicking the ball wildly and uncontrollably. Likewise, he may be fearless but that is no reason to be a pro player.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022010#Comment_122022010

I'd take Byrne in a heartbeat, but Tector makes no sense to me. He's maybe 5th choice at Leinster. Why would we sign a 5th choice 10 just because he is IQ. He will never play for Ireland.

If we can't sign one of Leinster's 3 International out halves (and we've no divine right to do so) then we should be able to sign a NIQ 10.

The fact is that unless there is dramatic development in Doak or Flannery at 10 by next season we will struggle to finish in the top 10 in the URC next season and then financially we will truly be snookered unless we can sign someone else.

Shehal

And with Kitshoff leaving there is now funds available for a FH, so Ulster should stop f**king around signing players they dont need and focus the money on players who'll make a difference…

Paul Smeenus

So we're getting rid of Kitshoff, Ewers, Addison and Burns, our first choice ten, at the end of the season to make ends meet.

Leinster are signing Jordie Barrett on a short term contract for a laugh.

I've never bought into the paranoia about how Dublin-centric the IRFU is, but it's getting hard to say there isn't a tonne of evidence staring us in the face.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023462#Comment_122023462

I accepted long ago that the playing field isn’t level, we’ll never catch up with them so long as they’re so heavily subsidised. four proud provinces my hole.

In reality there’s no real difference between Leinster and the big spending English and French teams, only difference is where the money comes from. We can’t compete with this. Apparently we’re supposed to be happy to see them do well though. 🤷‍♂️

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023462#Comment_122023462

Don't get this take. Leinster have a load of centrally contracted player. The other provinces have so few. When Ulster or whoever have a load of international players on central contracts, they'll be affording high quality players. Tbf, I don't like this signing. I wouldn't care what province he went to.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023547#Comment_122023547

Well done on totally missing the point. Leinster have been dominating central vontract numbers for years now and how likely is that to change any time soon and theyre then able to afford evenmore of these signings

bingobango12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023462#Comment_122023462

I’m coming in peace here and know Ulster supporters aren’t like Munster who seem to think the whole world is against them. But it wasn’t long ago since Ulster had Coetzee, Leali'ifano and an expensive Charles Piutau (maybe Pienaar too but not sure if he was still there with the others).

Ulster seem to be in a poor place financially at the moment, from their own mis management. Leinster have something like 13000 season tickets holders, likely stronger sponsors and sell out the Aviva 3/4 times every season. Not sure why Leinster should be punished because Ulster can’t manage their finances & Connacht/Munster can’t produce players in important positions season after season.

I do feel sorry for you lot this season as it has all seemed to go wrong and will be losing players next season but again, this isn’t Leinsters fault or any type of agenda to make Leinster brilliant and everyone else useless.

Dubinusa

Was there complaining when Piennar was signed? Or Kitshoff? Or RG for Munster? Honestly, I wish Leinster didn't sign Barrett. He's not needed. I don't see any point of provinces complaining. It is what it is. If players won't move away from Leinster, what's the answer?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023540#Comment_122023540

if there is one area that Ulster have absolutely always been on a level playing field, it’s expenditure on overseas signings.

The gap is in everything else.

Paul Smeenus

I think the point is every other province is tightening it's belt and worrying about the future and it seems like the IRFU is putting all it's eggs in the Leinster basket. Now that feels unfair, but that's a fairly childish response, so let's leave that to one side. I actually don't think that it will get the best out of Irish rugby. At some stage Leinster will get another coach like Matt O'Connor and the international team won't be able to rely on the other provinces. It seems like a genius move when Leinster are flying high, but I think it would be much better for Irish rugby's wider health if they worried more about improving the lots of the other provinces.

Also worth bearing in mind that the idea that Ulster is off running riot by themselves is quite a misnomer. Nucifora signs off on all signings (God knows he's blocked enough of them) and our useless CEO wasn't appointed by anyone in Belfast, but at the central IRFU office in Dublin. So the idea that the IRFU didn't greenlight everything Ulster has done is demonstrably false. Not that we've covered ourselves in glory, for sure, but we're just a branch of the IRFU.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023673#Comment_122023673

When good things happen: "isn't the Irish system under Nucifora excellent? Our setup is the envy of the world!"

When bad things happen: "woah, hold the phone, this is Ulster's fault and nobody else's!"

The one super-province has obviously been the desired IRFU model for a while now. On the same day that they announce signing Jordie Barrett they also announce that yet another one of their players is getting centrally contracted. 🤷‍♂️

We can but hope that Humphreys tears this charade to pieces.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023540#Comment_122023540

It will never be level. Not a hope. Leinster produce more and better players.

Dubinusa

That is true. Massive waste of funds spent on Vermuellen, Piatau and now Kitshoff. Not forgetting Piennar of course or Williams. All fairly expensive signings.

Dubinusa

Your points are true, but short of forcing Leinster to send young talent elsewhere, how does it change? If you look at Munster over the last 5 years or so, they've bought in, DDA; Snyman, Nankivill and Fekitoa. None being cheap? Ulster are a mess right now and cutting funding but that's not on Nucifora. The players are not performing. A 2 time world cup winner has not had any impact. Vermuellen was a bust, imo. The answers are many and not nor should not be laid at Leinsters doorstep.

Paul Smeenus

If the IRFU don't help out the other provinces more, perhaps even -whisper it! -disproportionately, then they'll regret it because it'll be a shambles when Leinster's star starts to wane, unless you think they'll be this strong forever.

The phrase Leinster fans love to reach for is "punishing". Why should we "punish" Leinster? It's not about Leinster, it's about making sure the future of Irish rugby is bright, because with this lopsided model, if something happens to Leinster, the whole house of cards comes crashing down. There are already many rules and circumstances put in place by the IRFU to balance the needs of the provinces (not one of which runs at a profit, it's worth remembering) with the needs of the international team.

It wasn't that long ago Leinster narrowly beat us at home in a European QF, and we're moving further and further away from being that level. And we are the IRFU, as much as Leinster is.

Paul Smeenus

And Ulster don't have the tax break to entice players to stay. And Southern teams don't have 20% VAT on ticket prices - we know it's not a level playing field, Dub. We know.

Pete_Cavan

Maybe the IRFU are hoping to force Frawley or H.Byrne to move to another province by putting better players ahead of them at Leinster. I mean, maybe they think they are actually doing everyone else a favour here...

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023729#Comment_122023729

The likes of Pienaar, Williams, Afoa and Muller were worth every penny.

The signings since haven't been and that's a problem.

But all this doesn't change the fact that Ulster need an out half desperately, otherwise I fear we will go into a death spiral next season.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023892#Comment_122023892

No matter what financial situation Ulster are in, I don't remotely understand the logic behind not allowing them sign a 10. Doak and Flannery is simply not enough, even if they were good enough.

Wegians89

wrong thread

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023851#Comment_122023851

Ok

Dubinusa

Well, I hope one of the Leinster 10's move.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023876#Comment_122023876

The problem seems to be less about getting players to go there than getting them to stay and play like they mean it.

Maybe it would be better if the central contracts were split evenly between the provinces and players had to move to get them?

I also don't understand the budget thing. When that half million went down the pan after the La Rochelle fiasco last year, why didn't the IRFU eat they loss directly instead of tanking Ulster's budget? If it's all ultimately coming out of the same pot, Ulster being gutted over an event like that is punishment for nothing.

RichieRich_89

What would be fair? The other Provinces allowed 4 NIQs compared to Leinster's 2 or 3? Ulster and Munster consistently not making Euro quarter finals isn't good for Irish rugby.

Paul Smeenus

I don't think we should change the number of NIQs - given our financial state at the moment, it wouldn't be world-beaters we're recruiting anyway.

Maybe they could have given us the money for Billy Burns. Not a CC, but some kind of financial aid that would have meant we didn't have to let our first-choice ten go simply because we couldn't afford him. The season before, we had to let Rob Lyttle - an excellent winger - go and just keep on Sexton and Moxham, because we could offer them less of a salary.

To be clear - it's not about NIQs. It's the fact that we've had to let go core members of our squad, who want to stay and play for us, because we can't afford to offer them a fair salary. All while following our IRFU-agreed business plan.

D4 aren't "suddenly getting involved". Were not an outpost on the moon. They've been part of Ulster Branch decisions every step of the way. The only hope is that Humphreys is more concerned about a wider spread of resources than Nucifora was.