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"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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    #1382
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Has anyone been talking about this in real life? This is the first season where it's barely been mentioned. With one friend I meet often, we talked about it more often over the last year than now when it's on.

    That's the complete opposite of my experience. There's a pool going in my office and everything.


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    #1383
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    dsmythy wrote: »
    Don't a number of wights die if a White Walker is killed? Considering the great success the wights were having it would make sense not to allow people a chance to kill so many in one go. I don't think it was a coincidence the storm moved in as the dragons honed in on the White Walkers.

    Exactly, it made sense for them to stay back. They were essentially controlling the deadites, one WW dies and that's all his lot dead too.


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    #1384
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Has anyone been talking about this in real life? This is the first season where it's barely been mentioned. With one friend I meet often, we talked about it more often over the last year than now when it's on.

    A bit. But not everyone sees it at the same time. About half in our office aren't caught up to the current episode. I didn't see till two days later.

    Tying to avoid spoilers is nigh impossible.


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    #1385
    Lor11
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Lor11


    Some of you more knowledgeable people here might be able to answer this, as a dragon rider can Jon control the dragon the same as Dany does. What I mean is that he seemed to be able to steer it but the firing was down to Daenerys command, I presume this is the reason he couldn't light the tench even though he was sitting there.


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    #1386
    homerun_homer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    Lor11 wrote: »
    Some of you more knowledgeable people here might be able to answer this, as a dragon rider can Jon control the dragon the same as Dany does. What I mean is that he seemed to be able to steer it but the firing was down to Daenerys command, I presume this is the reason he couldn't light the tench even though he was sitting there.

    He couldn't light the trench because they couldn't see Davos' signal with the fog. They couldn't see Winterfell and were lost in the air, he hit the trees and bashed into Dany and Drogon. John was using his dragon to spit fire loads in the battle before things took a turn. We just noticed Dany using her command because it was used to heighten the drama when she faced the Night King.


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    #1387
    Lor11
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Lor11


    homerun_homer wrote: »
    He couldn't light the trench because they couldn't see Davos' signal with the fog. They couldn't see Winterfell and were lost in the air, he hit the trees and bashed into Dany and Drogon. John was using his dragon to spit fire loads in the battle before things took a turn. We just noticed Dany using her command because it was used to heighten the drama when she faced the Night King.

    Jon was back at Winterfell before the trench was lit, he saw the buildings through a clearance in the fog and called to Dany to follow him but she didn't hear him and continued to be lost in the fog. wheen the tench is lit Jon is sitting on the wall of the Godswood. Even Davos says after he gives the signal that she (Dany) couldn't see him. I know Jon's dragon was spitting fire but it seemed by me (but might be wrong) that it was only when he was near Dany.


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    #1388
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Has anyone been talking about this in real life? This is the first season where it's barely been mentioned. With one friend I meet often, we talked about it more often over the last year than now when it's on.

    Quite a lot over the entirety of my company.

    It got to the point where we used our internal comms site to create a private group so people could discuss spoilers to keep it out of the main channels.


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    #1389
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    shrewdness wrote: »
    F**k me, it's hard to please everyone eh? I feel like whatever episode was put out, there still would have been a sizeable group of people picking holes in it, such is the best expectation built up over the last couple of years, and various people wanted different things out of the final season.

    Was it perfect? No, definitely not. I certainly disagree with the kneejerk opinions some had about it being the best TV episode they'd ever seen. I thought the writers played it a bit safe with the amount of big characters who survived,. And I'd have liked to have seen more of the Night King in the final season, and the actual White Walkers did effectively nothing in that episode other than look menacing. But all that said, it was an epic episode and I was thoroughly entertained. I understand not everyone will feel the same way, but some of the comments in here are a bit OTT.

    The most sensible post I’ve read.


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    #1390
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Mokuba wrote: »
    At least Arya succeeds with every single thing she does - somebody is allowed success I guess!

    The whole reason she has a list is because she got f*cked over so many times.

    Helpless to save the butchers son
    Watches her father get murdered.
    Watches her friends get murdered.
    Brought to Harrenhall and watched people get tortured.
    Present when her brother and mother get murdered.
    Gets beaten by the waif.
    Goes blind.

    I think she's due a win no?


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    #1391
    PhuckHugh
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭PhuckHugh


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    I find that I am usually in the miniority.

    I was in the minority that read the books long before the TV show.

    I was in the miniority that enjoyed the character episodes.

    And I am in the minority that has invested over 20 years into this series as a reader and fan to be presented with that ridiculous cartoon and call it for the joke of an episode that it was.

    Hardhome- Amazing

    Battle of the Bastards- Amazing.

    The Spoils of War- Amazing

    That. I hated it. I hated hating it but I hated it. The big reveal was that no one was killed and the knight king basically stood around and got shanked by a tree.

    This by a million --- I think it's book readers most put out- most I know that have read the book thought the episode was a big let down.


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    #1392
    PhuckHugh
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭PhuckHugh


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    I find that I am usually in the miniority.

    I was in the minority that read the books long before the TV show.

    I was in the miniority that enjoyed the character episodes.

    And I am in the minority that has invested over 20 years into this series as a reader and fan to be presented with that ridiculous cartoon and call it for the joke of an episode that it was.

    Hardhome- Amazing

    Battle of the Bastards- Amazing.

    The Spoils of War- Amazing

    That. I hated it. I hated hating it but I hated it. The big reveal was that no one was killed and the knight king basically stood around and got shanked by a tree.

    This by a million --- I think it's book readers most put out- most I know that have read the book thought the episode was a big let down.


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    #1393
    J. Marston
    Registered Users Posts: 23,122 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    The whole reason she has a list is because she got f*cked over so many times.

    Helpless to save the butchers son
    Watches her father get murdered.
    Watches her friends get murdered.
    Brought to Harrenhall and watched people get tortured.
    Present when her brother and mother get murdered.
    Gets beaten by the waif.
    Goes blind.

    I think she's due a win no?

    Also stabbed and not just present when Robb and Catelyn were murdered but sees her brother's headless corpse mockingly paraded around with Grey Wind's head stitched in place.


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    #1394
    Mr.Maroon
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭Mr.Maroon


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Ok, so who's left to fight Cersei in King's Landing now?


    Besides the Starks, Targaryens, dragons and assorted associates, there's still a good few Unsullied left I presume. Are the Knights of the Vale still around?

    Also, I'm unsure how many ships Yara Greyjoy has now after being rescued. Just the one she was on, or did she manage to take any more of Euron's fleet with her?

    Will the Dornish Army make an appearance and take their revenge for the murder of Ellaria and the sandsnakes perhaps? I know Varys made a pact with Lady Olenna and Ellaria, but seeing as they're both now dead, I don't suppose that holds up!


    Daario Naharis and the Second Sons - but they're stuck in Meereen.


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    #1395
    Mousewar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    If the ol' Lord of Light only brings back folk for a purpose (and he apparently brought back Beric a whole bunch of times to save Arya so she could kill the Night King) for what specific purpose did he bring back Jon? It's hardly to win the throne - would the Lord of Light care about that? Show really needs to answer that.


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    #1396
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,116 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Mousewar wrote: »
    If the ol' Lord of Light only brings back folk for a purpose (and he apparently brought back Beric a whole bunch of times to save Arya so she could kill the Night King) for what specific purpose did he bring back Jon? It's hardly to win the throne - would the Lord of Light care about that? Show really needs to answer that.

    To keep the zombie dragon occupied while Arya executed her plan:p


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    #1397
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I don't any much of this plot stands up to scrutiny. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.


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    #1398
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mousewar wrote: »
    If the ol' Lord of Light only brings back folk for a purpose (and he apparently brought back Beric a whole bunch of times to save Arya so she could kill the Night King) for what specific purpose did he bring back Jon? It's hardly to win the throne - would the Lord of Light care about that? Show really needs to answer that.

    Well....

    Without Jon being around, there's no retaking Winterfell. Which is the eventual place where the battle goes down.
    There's no chance the wildlings help the Night's Watch and likely flee south to rape and pillage as is their wont.

    In that case there's no safe haven for Bran to enact his trap for the NK, and the dead likely over run Westeros.

    Though, with no Jon, there's no dragon north of the Wall which brings it down and sends the dead through so.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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    #1399
    ogsjw
    Site Banned Posts: 328 ✭✭ogsjw


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    He constantly loses though, he's a bit useless if we're being honest. Well, maybe not useless but not a straight up savage either.
    Should have died way more than the one time he did.

    Clearly you've been watching a different cut to the rest of the world...

    ... EVERYBODY loses some in GOT, that is supposed to be deliberate commentary on reality...


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    #1400
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Mousewar wrote: »
    If the ol' Lord of Light only brings back folk for a purpose (and he apparently brought back Beric a whole bunch of times to save Arya so she could kill the Night King) for what specific purpose did he bring back Jon? It's hardly to win the throne - would the Lord of Light care about that? Show really needs to answer that.

    This is my theory:
    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Just spitballing, but maybe the aim wasn't to get Jon on the Iron throne, just the place where the NK would fall.

    If Jon wasn't resurrected, then he wouldn't have retaken Winterfell and restored it to Stark rule. And Arya wouldn't have had a reason to return and be there when the Night King arrived.

    And another poster pointed out how it was the resurrected Jon who got the North and Dany's armies to join forces against the army of the dead. And it was Jon who had the dragon glass from Dragonstone forged into weapons.

    None of these contributed directly to the defeat of the NK, but they all contributed to making sure someone else was in the right place to do the job.


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    #1401
    ogsjw
    Site Banned Posts: 328 ✭✭ogsjw


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    He constantly loses though, he's a bit useless if we're being honest. Well, maybe not useless but not a straight up savage either.
    Should have died way more than the one time he did.

    Clearly you've been watching a different cut to the rest of the world...

    ... EVERYBODY loses some in GOT, that is supposed to be deliberate commentary on reality...

    ... Which makes Arya even more jarring.


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    #1402
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    About to watch again with my bro who's seeing it for the first time.

    Gonna just take it all at face value and try enjoy the ride.


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    #1403
    homerun_homer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    Lor11 wrote: »
    Jon was back at Winterfell before the trench was lit, he saw the buildings through a clearance in the fog and called to Dany to follow him but she didn't hear him and continued to be lost in the fog. wheen the tench is lit Jon is sitting on the wall of the Godswood. Even Davos says after he gives the signal that she (Dany) couldn't see him. I know Jon's dragon was spitting fire but it seemed by me (but might be wrong) that it was only when he was near Dany.

    You might need to rewatch it. That was later in the episode when Jon was sitting over the Godswood.

    "We need fire, they have it, but instead their dragon GPS has been borked by the ice clouds and they're literally bumping into each other. Down below it's not much better. Ser Davos is trying to guide Daenerys' dragon plane in with two big fire wands but the dragons can't see." from CNet recap.


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    #1404
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    ogsjw wrote: »
    Clearly you've been watching a different cut to the rest of the world...

    ... EVERYBODY loses some in GOT, that is supposed to be deliberate commentary on reality...
    I'm actually not sure what point you're trying to make there.
    I know everyone loses, especially so in this.

    What I'm saying is Jon should have died many times over, not just the once.
    He's being touted as the hero, military leader, great fighter, Azor Azai etc, and people are saying it should have been him that battled the NK.
    Instead the show said: Actually, sometimes the hero loses. Or in Jon's case, a lot.

    Meanwhile, the actual trained assassin of the group got the kill, using her training to sneak by everything, in a place she knows like the back of her hand.


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    #1405
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,581 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    homerun_homer wrote: »
    You might need to rewatch it. That was later in the episode when Jon was sitting over the Godswood.

    "We need fire, they have it, but instead their dragon GPS has been borked by the ice clouds and they're literally bumping into each other. Down below it's not much better. Ser Davos is trying to guide Daenerys' dragon plane in with two big fire wands but the dragons can't see." from CNet recap.


    At 4.59 in this video Jon is shown sitting on a dragon on the wall as the trench was lit. Danaerys was up in the sky on the other dragon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpwFuSiNOGE


    That doesn't answer the question of whether the dragons need Danaerys piloting them/commanding them to produce fire...I can't recall off the top of my head any scene in which a dragon has produced fire without her presence/command.


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    #1406
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    osarusan wrote: »
    At 4.59 in this video Jon is shown sitting on a dragon on the wall as the trench was lit. Danaerys was up in the sky on the other dragon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpwFuSiNOGE


    That doesn't answer the question of whether the dragons need Danaerys piloting them/commanding them to produce fire...I can't recall off the top of my head any scene in which a dragon has produced fire without her presence/command.
    Didn't she burn one of the ships in Mereen to make a point or something?
    Think the three of them flew about and incinerated a ship while she was on land


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    #1407
    homerun_homer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    osarusan wrote: »
    At 4.59 in this video Jon is shown sitting on a dragon on the wall as the trench was lit. Danaerys was up in the sky on the other dragon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpwFuSiNOGE


    That doesn't answer the question of whether the dragons need Danaerys piloting them/commanding them to produce fire...I can't recall off the top of my head any scene in which a dragon has produced fire without her presence/command.

    Well, doesn't that make Jon a right prat for sitting idly by.

    Why is it a big deal if he needs to use a command for the dragon or not? I would presume that him being allowed to ride the dragon grants him the ability to direct it and breathe fire. I don't think the show is out to explain every intricacy of how the dragons or the shows religions (Lord of Light's agenda) work. They didn't provide any further backstory to the knight king, so this certainly won't be expanded upon.


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    #1408
    Lor11
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Lor11


    osarusan wrote: »
    At 4.59 in this video Jon is shown sitting on a dragon on the wall as the trench was lit. Danaerys was up in the sky on the other dragon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpwFuSiNOGE


    That doesn't answer the question of whether the dragons need Danaerys piloting them/commanding them to produce fire...I can't recall off the top of my head any scene in which a dragon has produced fire without her presence/command.

    No I can't either. I am hoping that if Jon does embrace his new found lineage that he might be able to do more with his dragon without danaerys. Neither of them seem to have seen the significance of him being even being allowed to ride the dragon in ep 1 before the bombshell was dropped on Jon.


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    #1409
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,581 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    Didn't she burn one of the ships in Mereen to make a point or something?
    Think the three of them flew about and incinerated a ship while she was on land
    She was piloting one, but all three produced fire.
    homerun_homer wrote: »
    Well, doesn't that make Jon a right prat for sitting idly by.

    Why is it a big deal if he needs to use a command for the dragon or not? I would presume that him being allowed to ride the dragon grants him the ability to direct it and breathe fire.
    I think it's reasonable to ask why Jon is sitting there with his dragon instead of non-stop burning the dead (if he can get it to produce fire, or it can do so by itself, or with some command from an absent Danaerys).


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    #1410
    dusty bin
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭dusty bin


    Lor11 wrote: »
    Jon was back at Winterfell before the trench was lit, he saw the buildings through a clearance in the fog and called to Dany to follow him but she didn't hear him and continued to be lost in the fog. wheen the tench is lit Jon is sitting on the wall of the Godswood. Even Davos says after he gives the signal that she (Dany) couldn't see him. I know Jon's dragon was spitting fire but it seemed by me (but might be wrong) that it was only when he was near Dany.

    Maybe Jon cant get them to breathe fire yet until he learns Valaryian. :D


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    #1411
    Lor11
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Lor11


    dusty bin wrote: »
    Maybe Jon cant get them to breathe fire yet until he learns Valaryian. :D

    Maybe we'll get a "how to Train your dragon" scene in the next episode ðŸ˜


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