"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Necro

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Jon should of been in a position to have the final fight with The Night King it was his story this was set up to be his moment otherwise what was the point in bringing him back ultimately? It wasn't just for Ramsey.

A proper sword fight between both would of been perfectly fitting. You could of had The Night King take charge and it seems like hes about to win THEN have someone come in and help out in some way shape or form.

He was in the perfect position on the battlefield. The Night King pussied out and raised the dead to protect him.

On a rewatch the one thing I have an issue with is the Night King surviving the head on blast of dragonfire. I can't see the point in it given a Valyrian blade to the heart killed him shortly afterwards.

Captain Flaps

Necro wrote: »

He was in the perfect position on the battlefield. The Night King pussied out and raised the dead to protect him.

On a rewatch the one thing I have an issue with is the Night King surviving the head on blast of dragonfire. I can't see the point in it given a Valyrian blade to the heart killed him shortly afterwards.

I reckon it'll turn out that he was a Targaryan back in the day.

facehugger99

I though it was very clever that Arya plunging her Valerian steel dagger into the NK was foreshadowed in the previous episode when Gendry plunged his pork sword into Arya.

Necro

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I do have a problem with the fact that - pretty much like the entirety of S7 - the whole thing was just rushed through to a conclusion considering it's been built up for 8 seasons.

They spent two episodes literally pontificating about the upcoming battle in the final season.

I don't think anything was rushed at all given we waited two years for the final season, two episodes for the battle to actually happen, and the fact that the episode was a feature length one as well.

You can dislike the writing if you like, but rushing things is definitely not what they're doing imo anyways.

How Soon Is Now

is_that_so wrote: »

There are two battles to be wrapped up in 6 episodes and that's one down. The NK scene not really surprising and someone had to get him.

They could of done a lot more with what they had to work with in that episode though.

tritriagain

benny79 wrote: »

Maybe you should watch something else...

I didn't realise this thread was for praise only . I've read the books and enjoyed the TV upto this season but I think this season is disappointing.

Necro

I will say those wishing that the Night King and Jon Snow had a one on one sword fight are making imminently more sense than those wanting some sort of 'psychic plane battle'. That has to be the most bizarre theory I've ever heard.

TerrorFirmer

I meant the last 10 minutes specifically of the episode. As I said, I don't have a problem with the NK dying within those 80 minutes.

How Soon Is Now

Necro wrote: »

They spent two episodes literally pontificating about the upcoming battle in the final season.

I don't think anything was rushed at all given we waited two years for the final season, two episodes for the battle to actually happen, and the fact that the episode was a feature length one as well.

You can dislike the writing if you like, but rushing things is definitely not what they're doing imo anyways.

The battle itself was constantly talked about not the actual White Walkers or The Night King. We got bits and bobs about them really.

is_that_so

Necro wrote: »

They spent two episodes literally pontificating about the upcoming battle in the final season.

I don't think anything was rushed at all given we waited two years for the final season, two episodes for the battle to actually happen, and the fact that the episode was a feature length one as well.

You can dislike the writing if you like, but rushing things is definitely not what they're doing imo anyways.

Episode 2 was a very good precursor to this in its sense of foreboding.

bigslice

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Whatever about the lack of a duel between the NK and Jon, what perplexed me most what that not a single White Walker so much as lifted a finger before being reduced to shattered glass.

Surely at least one duel between one of the Night King's fearsome lieutenants and a member of the main cast like Brienne or Jaime would have radically increased tension.

I don't have a problem with Arya delivering the killing blow. I don't have inherently have a problem with the NK dying, even.

I do have a problem with the fact that - pretty much like the entirety of S7 - the whole thing was just rushed through to a conclusion considering it's been built up for 8 seasons.

I’d have thought a duel between one of the WW and one of the main characters would have been too obvious.

I now imagine that everything is thought out in GOT and it’s not obvious on screen. In past episodes we see the Knight King sending in the WW to battle at Hardhome and been beaten. Next time we see one is when Jon and his mission head north to capture one of the dead. But this WW would appear to have been bait to get the dragon north and to kill for the NK army. None of his WW took part in the later battle either and stood with him as he took out the dragon.

So the NK knew the WW could be killed and the consequences. So he just held them back until the grand entrance and victory looked close. Then they all went in together. Such was his numbers of an undead army who followed his every command, he didn’t need the WW in battle.

If the writers really played up to “fan service”, which appears to be the new cool phrase or go marvel/Disney, then we’d have had a few duels with WW and varying degrees of success!

Necro

TerrorFirmer wrote:

I meant the last 10 minutes specifically of the episode. As I said, I don't have a problem with the NK dying within those 80 minutes.

Ah I dunno, I'd moreso put that down to the TV dramatisation and climax. I dont have an issue with it tbh. Except the dragonfire. Didn't like that bit.

How Soon Is Now wrote:

The battle itself was constantly talked about not the actual White Walkers or The Night King. We got bits and bobs about them really.

I can see why they didn't engage though given Jon Snow smashed one to pieces at Hardhome and Sam killed one with a small dagger.

Ironically the living should have kept their generals safe and well in the Weirwood protecting Bran as well instead of Theon and a few Ironborn.

Drumpot

Im surprised I havent seen anybody mention Bronn. Tyrion and Jamie could be killed in the most horrible way, at least dieing in battle would be honorable. It would be horrible for them to be slain by a hitman. That would be harder to take them either or both dieing in the long night.

Also forgot about the giant bow and arrow Cersei has for the Dragon, dont think that is going to end well.

I think somebody made a good point about the NK. He isnt the main story and in many regards his death is bringing us back full circle where the battle for the throne is the main theme of the show. I think everybody might start turning on each other once somebody wins the throne, would be depressing and quite fitting really.

How Soon Is Now

Necro wrote: »

Ah I dunno, I'd moreso put that down to the TV dramatisation and climax. I dont have an issue with it tbh. Except the dragonfire. Didn't like that bit.



I can see why they didn't engage though given Jon Snow smashed one to pieces at Hardhome and Sam killed one with a small dagger.

Ironically the living should have kept their generals safe and well in the Weirwood protecting Bran as well instead of Theon and a few Ironborn.

I really liked a lot of that last episode i think the ending obviously spoiled a lot of it for me and i didn't like the obvious issue with allowing characters to become immune to death either.


I just felt in general we obviously hyped it for ourselves but it was also marketed as something that was going to be on epic levels but really battle of the bastards was done a lot better as an overall episode.


We all know The Night King had to lose which meant thats the end of the White Walker Night King story so i think we needed more on them not just in this episode but before.



Did the budget stop this?

Tazzimus

Necro wrote: »

He was in the perfect position on the battlefield. The Night King pussied out and raised the dead to protect him.

On a rewatch the one thing I have an issue with is the Night King surviving the head on blast of dragonfire. I can't see the point in it given a Valyrian blade to the heart killed him shortly afterwards.

Valeryian steel is supposed to have been made with spells and dragonfire.

No one actually knew if dragonfire would do anything to him or the other walkers, turns out it doesn't.




For the WW not doing anything:
I took that as NK holding back what keeps his army alive and just using the sheer number of wights to overwhelm everyone, while keeping his elite guys by his side in case he was somehow attacked.

Don't think we've ever seen him do any fighting either, bar throw a few spears, have we?

lawred2

Drumpot wrote: »

Im surprised I havent seen anybody mention Bronn. Tyrion and Jamie could be killed in the most horrible way, at least dieing in battle would be honorable. It would be horrible for them to be slain by a hitman. That would be harder to take them either or both dieing in the long night.

Also forgot about the giant bow and arrow Cersei has for the Dragon, dont think that is going to end well.

I think somebody made a good point about the NK. He isnt the main story and in many regards his death is bringing us back full circle where the battle for the throne is the main theme of the show. I think everybody might start turning on each other once somebody wins the throne, would be depressing and quite fitting really.

yeah but wouldn't that be more like the GOT way of doing it?

Essien

Penn wrote: »

Agreed, and while I hated it at the time, the scene of Arya sneaking through the library was a precursor to her being able to gets past the White Walkers to get at the Night King. The NK caught her because he's obviously quicker than the Walkers etc, but then her fight with Brienne last season was also a precursor to her dagger-swap move.

Not to mention her approaching Jon from behind in the Godswood in SE08 E01. To which he responded:

"How did you sneak up on me?"

How Soon Is Now

Drumpot wrote: »

Im surprised I havent seen anybody mention Bronn. Tyrion and Jamie could be killed in the most horrible way, at least dieing in battle would be honorable. It would be horrible for them to be slain by a hitman. That would be harder to take them either or both dieing in the long night.

Also forgot about the giant bow and arrow Cersei has for the Dragon, dont think that is going to end well.

I think somebody made a good point about the NK. He isnt the main story and in many regards his death is bringing us back full circle where the battle for the throne is the main theme of the show. I think everybody might start turning on each other once somebody wins the throne, would be depressing and quite fitting really.

I just dont see Bronn turning on two people hes had a strong friendship and relationship with for money he doesn't really need at this point.


Plus he has no connection to Cersei that would put her over the brothers.


If he sets out and kills either of them on purpose it would be ridiculous on many levels. By accident who knows....

beauf

Tazzimus wrote: »

Valeryian steel is supposed to have been made with spells and dragonfire.

No one actually knew if dragonfire would do anything to him or the other walkers, turns out it doesn't.




For the WW not doing anything:
I took that as NK holding back what keeps his army alive and just using the sheer number of wights to overwhelm everyone, while keeping his elite guys by his side in case he was somehow attacked.

Don't think we've ever seen him do any fighting either, bar throw a few spears, have we?

GOt doesn't deal with dragon fire or magic consistently or the walkers. For me its a its a flaw in the original books. It has a split personally in that regard.Feels like two different stories and worlds pushed together, not all that successfully.

Necro

Drumpot wrote: »

Im surprised I havent seen anybody mention Bronn. Tyrion and Jamie could be killed in the most horrible way, at least dieing in battle would be honorable. It would be horrible for them to be slain by a hitman. That would be harder to take them either or both dieing in the long night.

Also forgot about the giant bow and arrow Cersei has for the Dragon, dont think that is going to end well.

I think somebody made a good point about the NK. He isnt the main story and in many regards his death is bringing us back full circle where the battle for the throne is the main theme of the show. I think everybody might start turning on each other once somebody wins the throne, would be depressing and quite fitting really.

I think that's exactly what's going to happen actually re: Tyrion. It would be a very GOT-esque type thing to do with the sellsword that Tyrion brought in and rose up till someone else with more coin took him away.

The Dragon-Buster will feature yet too I reckon.

Drumpot

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I just dont see Bronn turning on two people hes had a strong friendship and relationship with for money he doesn't really need at this point.


Plus he has no connection to Cersei that would put her over the brothers.


If he sets out and kills either of them on purpose it would be ridiculous on many levels. By accident who knows....

I agree but it would be totally GOT to do it . . . I would rather he didnt carry out the order and double crossed Cersei.

beauf

Necro wrote: »

I think that's exactly what's going to happen actually re: Tyrion. It would be a very GOT-esque type thing to do with the sellsword that Tyrion brought in and rose up till someone else with more coin took him away.

The Dragon-Buster will feature yet too I reckon.

Bronn isn't always solely motivated by profit. If he was that would be very 2 dimensional character. In GOT the characters are rarely that.

Necro

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I just dont see Bronn turning on two people hes had a strong friendship and relationship with for money he doesn't really need at this point.


Plus he has no connection to Cersei that would put her over the brothers.


If he sets out and kills either of them on purpose it would be ridiculous on many levels. By accident who knows....

Ah no, the narrative with Bronn and Tyrion in particular is 'Remember that if you ever think of betraying me - I can pay more than them.' Yes they were relatively friendly but it was always based on cold hard cash (or coin, depending on how deep into the world we want to go).

Tyrion doesn't have that shield anymore as he's shed the Lannister wealth at this point.

Necro

beauf wrote: »

Bronn isn't always solely motivated by profit. If he was that would be very 2 dimensional character. In GOT the characters are rarely that.

Is he not? We'll agree to differ but that's always been the relationship that I've seen Bronn have with Tyrion in particular.

Jaime it's slightly different, if anything I'd see that as more of a truer friendship than his relationship with Tyrion.

Tazzimus

Necro wrote: »

Ah no, the narrative with Bronn and Tyrion in particular is 'Remember that if you ever think of betraying me - I can pay more than them.' Yes they were relatively friendly but it was always based on cold hard cash (or coin, depending on how deep into the world we want to go).

Tyrion doesn't have that shield anymore as he's shed the Lannister wealth at this point.

Plus they haven't had any wealth for quite some time, not that Tywin was telling people that.
Or at least no way of producing more.

Tacitus Kilgore

Necro wrote: »

The Dragon-Buster will feature yet too I reckon.

Did drogon not incinerate the ballista in the battle of the goldroad?

Necro

Tazzimus wrote: »

Plus they haven't had any wealth for quite some time, not that Tywin was telling people that.
Or at least no way of producing more.

Well yeah, at this point Cersei is funded by stolen Tyrell gold and the Iron Bank rather than her own family's wealth.

Penn

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Did drogon not incinerate the ballista in the battle of the goldroad?

Wouldn't take much to build another. A month or two would have passed since then.

How Soon Is Now

Necro wrote: »

Ah no, the narrative with Bronn and Tyrion in particular is 'Remember that if you ever think of betraying me - I can pay more than them.' Yes they were relatively friendly but it was always based on cold hard cash (or coin, depending on how deep into the world we want to go).

Tyrion doesn't have that shield anymore as he's shed the Lannister wealth at this point.

Ya theres a certain element of money but i think the two of them respected each other also. You can see with both brothers how they came to trust Bronn and he was always there for them as well. It cant all be down to money especially with Jamie.

beauf

Bronn had more lucrative options at times. Choose not to to take them. Especially suicide missions, tasks. I think he just likes a good scrap at heart.