How long before Irish reunification?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

I absolutely will never be cooperating with any agreement that results in NI not existing.

1. So you reject the Good Friday Agreement you claim to have supported?

I would try hard to remain completely peaceful in that scenario but I am honestly not sure I could.

2. What would you fight against/for?

Could you, if UK took over roi again??

Democratically? I'd have to accept it. I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't be fighting against my fellow Irish people if they decided that's what they wanted.

I really couldn’t even guess how many would leave. Don’t know what I would do myself.

Pure colonial mindset - if we're not in charge we're off. Nothing but violent ethnic cleansing would force me away from my home and people.

Let’s say dublin decided tomorrow to announce UI was no longer an option or objective and they said that nationalists had no choice but to get involved in a forum on how roi should cooperate with a uk which would include NI forever?

I'd say to 'Dublin' 'in whose interests are you acting'? And 'how do we get rid of you'?

Two question above for you DC.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Still trying to save yourself on that crutch downcow.

I told you long long ago, nobody finds respectful parades 'offensive'.

The issue is offensive behaviour around those parades...and underhand attempts to parade again where they are not wanted.
Trust is not automatic...you need to earn it.

And what is this nonsense about 'NI disappearing'?

If there is a majority vote for a UI, it becomes 'northern Ireland', a region of the island of Ireland just like 'southern or western Ireland'.
Done and dusted and agreed with the British.

Not the ‘North’. Are you feeling ok Francie. You actually said it.
Oh no I see now. You dropped the capital letters. Hahaha. Your a laugh

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

downcow wrote: »

I don’t feel Irish but am not offended if people refer to me as Irish in good faith. I am very strongly northern Irish, and yes of course my nationality is British and I feel very British during remembrance, Olympic Games etc. But when it is NI specific ie football I just love beating England almost as much I love beating ROI
As to a UI. I guess it would be a great sense of loss. For me not so much the loss of the uk but the loss of NI. I am probably in a small minority of unionists who would give serious consideration to a UI that operates like UK ie I don’t lose my country.
I absolutely will never be cooperating with any agreement that results in NI not existing. I would try hard to remain completely peaceful in that scenario but I am honestly not sure I could. Could you, if UK took over roi again??
I am sure each generation (nationalist and unionist) is getting more open to options their parents would not have considered. So I could see a UI settling down in a couple of generations. I really couldn’t even guess how many would leave. Don’t know what I would do myself.

Could I ask you the same question.
Let’s say dublin decided tomorrow to announce UI was no longer an option or objective and they said that nationalists had no choice but to get involved in a forum on how roi should cooperate with a uk which would include NI forever?

I don't think Dublin would have the only say to announce anything. I'm not a nationalist but would like to see an "Ireland" at some stage in the future but only if there was a 90% majority voting in favour of it.
I'm not too fussed on what flag there is or isn't over my local town hall. I have other concerns at the moment that are more important.
Who would or could you get violent against out of curiosity? London for "selling out" unionists, or Dublin?
This fella sums up nationalism for me. (whether it be British nationalism or any other kind...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Nothing but violent ethnic cleansing would force me away from my home and people.

.

Thankfully my people didn’t go even though the ira tried 30+ years of that

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many Protetestants play the GAA in the 26 counties. Maybe nobody knows, because it's not an issue down south, or is it? I wonder what their experiences are? Again, the fact that they would be Irish, and consider themselves Irish, there's probably no drama, so I wonder would the consider the GAA a sectarian organisation? Doubtful...
But it's bullsh*t that your religion determines the sport you play in a certain part of the island.

Granadino

Granadino wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many Protetestants play the GAA in the 26 counties. Maybe nobody knows, because it's not an issue down south, or is it? I wonder what their experiences are? Again, the fact that they would be Irish, and consider themselves Irish, there's probably no drama, so I wonder would the consider the GAA a sectarian organisation? Doubtful...

I know a few, but then again it’s not bred into protestants to despise the GAA in most Irish counties. In NI it’s the enemy.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I know a few, but then again it’s not bred into protestants to despise the GAA in most Irish counties. In NI it’s the enemy.

That's the difference.

downcow

Granadino wrote: »

I don't think Dublin would have the only say to announce anything. I'm not a nationalist but would like to see an "Ireland" at some stage in the future but only if there was a 90% majority voting in favour of it.
I'm not too fussed on what flag there is or isn't over my local town hall. I have other concerns at the moment that are more important.
Who would or could you get violent against out of curiosity? London for "selling out" unionists, or Dublin?
This fella sums up nationalism for me. (whether it be British nationalism or any other kind...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4

Enjoyed the video.
But tell me this. Why would you want to see an ‘ireland’ at some stage if you are not nationalist?

downcow

Granadino wrote: »

That's the difference.

Granadino. You started off well here lol. But tell me are you agreeing with the poster you responded to who is implyinG that the problem is NI Protestants. That’s a tad simplistic, not to mention sectarian. Surely you and he wouldn’t be sectarian?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Thankfully my people didn’t go even though the ira tried 30+ years of that

Spare me the hyperbole. There were refugee camps set up in the south for Catholic refugees fleeing being burned and shot out of their homes by Protestants. Can you give me even one even remotely analogous example of Protestants fleeing in their thousands?

You can't.

RobMc59

10-15 years

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I know a few, but then again it’s not bred into protestants to despise the GAA in most Irish counties. In NI it’s the enemy.

I have a GAA hat for the team in the area my family originates from but was shocked to discover their playing ground is named after a former IRA chief of staff-hardly likely to attract anyone who has a problem with the IRA.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Granadino wrote: »

This fella sums up nationalism for me. (whether it be British nationalism or any other kind...)

British nationalism is related to imperialism, you know, being where you're not wanted and taking people's resources, whereas Irish/Indian/Arab/African/South American nationalism is anti-colonial. Nationalism can be a force for liberation.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

British nationalism is related to imperialism, you know, being where you're not wanted and taking people's resources, whereas Irish/Indian/Arab/African/South American nationalism is anti-colonial. Nationalism can be a force for liberation.

As I said, I'm not a nationalist.

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

I have a GAA hat for the team in the area my family originates from but was shocked to discover their playing ground is named after a former IRA chief of staff-hardly likely to attract anyone who has a problem with the IRA.

And that‘s fine by me. You’re mixing up your IRA’s anyway.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

downcow wrote: »

Enjoyed the video.
But tell me this. Why would you want to see an ‘ireland’ at some stage if you are not nationalist?

I don't think the current situation is a normal one. I don't think Northern Ireland has ever functioned properly as other western European countries. It doesn't function like England, Wales, or Scotland and never has. It's not a "normal" society. IMO of course. I think 100 years ago, Ireland should have stayed in the UK, all 32 counties, or should have left as 32 counties. So I think something has to give. This staus quo scenario doesn't work. I don't know what the solution is when you have half of NI who don't want to be in a united Ireland and the other half who do.

downcow wrote: »

Granadino. You started off well here lol. But tell me are you agreeing with the poster you responded to who is implyinG that the problem is NI Protestants. That’s a tad simplistic, not to mention sectarian. Surely you and he wouldn’t be sectarian?

I'm not implying the problem is NI Protestants, but you can't deny that hatred of the GAA is bred into many people. I understand it's a totally different scenario in NI. I don't think you get people playing GAA in Limerick because they want to stick it to the "Brits".

Sinbad_NI

Granadino wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many Protetestants play the GAA in the 26 counties. Maybe nobody knows, because it's not an issue down south, or is it? I wonder what their experiences are? Again, the fact that they would be Irish, and consider themselves Irish, there's probably no drama, so I wonder would the consider the GAA a sectarian organisation? Doubtful...
But it's bullsh*t that your religion determines the sport you play in a certain part of the island.

Naming clubs and competitions after INLA and Provos makes it sectarian.
How many protestants do you think that would attract in NI?

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Naming clubs and competitions after INLA and Provos makes it sectarian.
How many protestants do you think that would attract in NI?

None, but do names of GAA clubs in the 26 counties offend Protestants from the south? Or from NI for that matter?

FrancieBrady

Granadino wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many Protetestants play the GAA in the 26 counties. Maybe nobody knows, because it's not an issue down south, or is it? I wonder what their experiences are? Again, the fact that they would be Irish, and consider themselves Irish, there's probably no drama, so I wonder would the consider the GAA a sectarian organisation? Doubtful...
But it's bullsh*t that your religion determines the sport you play in a certain part of the island.

It would not be known how many protestants play GAA because it wouldn't be an issue as said. My children are protestants and are passionate about the GAA.
It does become an issue as soon as you cross the border. For the same reason that some people's stomach's turn when they see a road-sign in Irish.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

I shouldn't be making the mistake of talking about Protestants being offended. I should be talking about unionists, nationalist, loyalists or republicans, not whether your religion will determine if you get offended by a road sign or sport. And that is how f*cked up society is in the 6 counties to be honest.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It would not be known how many protestants play GAA because it wouldn't be an issue as said. My children are protestants and are passionate about the GAA.
It does become an issue as soon as you cross the border. For the same reason that some people's stomach's turn when they see a road-sign in Irish.

And some people’s stomachs turn when they see a union flag or a Protestant about the place.

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Naming clubs and competitions after INLA and Provos makes it sectarian.
How many protestants do you think that would attract in NI?

Like elsewhere there are legacy issues with the GAA because it was seen as part of the enemy. Listen to the many many tales of northern and southern fans of serious and routine small minded petty harassment - from being shot to being held up enroute to games for the 'lols' by the RUC and British. (experienced it many many times)
They also have grounds taken over for military suppression of local communities.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

downcow wrote: »

And some people’s stomachs turn when they see a union flag or a Protestant about the place.

You're talking about certain parts of NI here though. There are union flags on most hotels all over Ireland. They're not put up to mark territory.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

And some people’s stomachs turn when they see a union flag

If that flag is used to taunt or annoy.

or a Protestant about the place.

More nonsense.

downcow

Granadino wrote: »

I'm not implying the problem is NI Protestants, but you can't deny that hatred of the GAA is bred into many people".

I actually do deny that.
Growing up I knew nothing of the gaa and I can assure my parents never mentioned it to me, never mind taught me to hate it.
I soon realised it was the place in my town that the ira formed up in to march through my town on Easter Sunday The same ira who were targeting my friends and neighbours simply because they were Protestant.
It was the place that no local Protestant was allowed to be a member because their family members were in the security forces ( not that they would have wanted to)
It was the place that held Wolfe tonne concerts which resulted in mobs attacking Protestant houses.
It was the place local ira held fundraisers and pr events

As I got older I wanted to challenge my prejudice and was invited to a Tyrone county gaa game. I was asked at the gate to donate to the Columbia 3 (ira men or bird watchers, you decide)

So no I don’t agree that somehow we were taught to hate.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like elsewhere there are legacy issues with the GAA because it was seen as part of the enemy. Listen to the many many tales of northern and southern fans of serious and routine small minded petty harassment - from being shot to being held up enroute to games for the 'lols' by the RUC and British. (experienced it many many times)
They also have grounds taken over for military suppression of local communities.

I accept all of that. Fair comment.

Sinbad_NI

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like elsewhere there are legacy issues with the GAA because it was seen as part of the enemy. Listen to the many many tales of northern and southern fans of serious and routine small minded petty harassment - from being shot to being held up enroute to games for the 'lols' by the RUC and British. (experienced it many many times)
They also have grounds taken over for military suppression of local communities.

So what's their plan... dig in and get further entrenched?Or move forward and be inclusive of everyone?

Thought this was an interesting quote I got from the world of Wikipedia...
according to one sports historian, the GAA "is arguably the most striking example of politics shaping sport in modern history"

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

downcow wrote: »

I actually do deny that.
Growing up I knew nothing of the gaa and I can assure my parents never mentioned it to me, never mind taught me to hate it.
I soon realised it was the place in my town that the ira formed up in to march through my town on Easter Sunday The same ira who were targeting my friends and neighbours simply because they were Protestant.
It was the place that no local Protestant was allowed to be a member because their family members were in the security forces ( not that they would have wanted to)
It was the place that held Wolfe tonne concerts which resulted in mobs attacking Protestant houses.
It was the place local ira held fundraisers and pr events

As I got older I wanted to challenge my prejudice and was invited to a Tyrone county gaa game. I was asked at the gate to donate to the Columbia 3 (ira men or bird watchers, you decide)

So no I don’t agree that somehow we were taught to hate.

Can’t argue with anything you’ve said there. I had the misfortune of getting a few support gigs with the Wolfe Tones years ago way down south. Money was too good to refuse. I didn’t stay for the WT. Utter ****e whipping up the crowd. Music used for all the wrong purposes.

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

So what's their plan... dig in and get further entrenched?Or move forward and be inclusive of everyone?

Thought this was an interesting quote I got from the world of Wikipedia...
according to one sports historian, the GAA "is arguably the most striking example of politics shaping sport in modern history"

After years of inviting the leaders of all parties to the Ulster final, this happened. A first for DUP leader.



I was part of this happening btw. It was marred a bit by some acrimonious bitching by her local DUP brethren, but it was good to see that Rubicon crossed at last.

I think the GAA work hard at inclusivity.

downcow

I wish I knew how to repost a Facebook post here.
My local Chinese takeaway packed with dozens, 50+ local young people in hysterics chanting, ooh a up the Ra with the caption ‘fu*k you Asians’ and references to corona virus. And I can assure you it wasn’t the local loyalist band were in.
If anyone can tell me how to post a video I’ll put it up for yous.
Lovely people in a small town where the have hammered the Protestant community for 50 years egged on by the shinners

downcow

This might work for you.
I was in this Chinese takeaway two hours earlier and missed the welcoming party
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2525445437584908&id=100003584291049&sfnsn=scwspwa&d=w&vh=i&extid=Oc19tZZgWm9QHjvC