How long before Irish reunification?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There's a lot to wish for change in this State right now, but don't make out like you're living in The Gambia or Mauritania.

Also, I said the border poll wouldn't happen til at least 2030. Goodness knows what timeframe would be put on the eventual reunification thereafter. 20 years may be a good shout! 2040 for all!

Statements like this are helpful. If the shinners had the balls to be more honest about the realty it would be even more helpful. I still think UI in the next 50 years is no chance but hey I can’t speak for following generations and if they want it then I’d wish them well with it

downcow

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Personally I'd get rid of everything sectarian. OO and glorification of terrorists would be two obvious things that fall under that banner.

You seem intent to keep the two communities apart, I get it, that's SF party line.
I just don't see how you can bring a country and his divided people together like that.

Surprisingly I would agree somewhat with Francie that we can’t just bin all this history.
I disagree with him though about the solution. I think the solution is that we need to be less easily offended.
I am sure I am looking at this through prejudiced glasses but I believe republicans have a more difficult journey that unionists on this one. I actually believe unionist are little interested about eg what gaa clubs are called. This stuff is being raised because they are fed up with what they see as hypocrisy and inequality around these issues
I do agree with you sinbad that certain stuff should be beyond the pail.
And the challenge for me on this is to not be so offended by Irish road signs going up around me. I guess education is the key and I should try to get under the skin of why people want to put them up when they know lots of people feel threatened by them. And vice versa with parades. But of course No one on here will tell me what offends them about today’s loyalist band parades (not OO) so it’s hard to get educated

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't expect them to celebrate them. I don't celebrate parts of their culture too.

That's fine. We just need to find ways of celebrating that don't impinge on others. Demanding rights to march a band through your housing estate celebrating is kinda straight away dubious carry on for a democrat...no?

No, people need to be more tolerant
So what if someone's parade goes down the main road of your estate?
Big deal.
Just let them march, then it's over.

I used to live near Croke Park, matches & concerts impinged on my day to day living regularly. I just got on with it.

eire4

bubblypop wrote: »

No, people need to be more tolerant
So what if someone's parade goes down the main road of your estate?
Big deal.
Just let them march, then it's over.

I used to live near Croke Park, matches & concerts impinged on my day to day living regularly. I just got on with it.

Comparing loud concert goers and match goers to the hate fests that are orange parades going down Irish neighbourhoods against locals wishes is risible.

eire4

eire4 wrote: »

Comparing loud concert goers and match goers to the hate fests that are orange parades going down Irish neighbourhoods against locals wishes is risible.

Both sides need tolerance
If marches are conducted as just marches with respect to locals, the locals could be tolerant of the marches

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Let them tell us what they want.

It's very simple.

I'd imagine it would be "we don't want a United Ireland, we want to remain in the UK."

In the event of a United Ireland, you'd assume an overwhelming majority would have voted for it. Not sure renaming GAA clubs would fix anything, but if it helped, then yeah, why not.

Would orange marches still be allowed? Bonfires? What would the legality be of bonfires in a united Ireland?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

The most liberal leader ever of the most liberal unionist party ever just said yesterday they won’t EVER be discussing a UI. So you can live in fantasy that I am out of step with my unionists neighbours but you are simply wrong.
Your only hope is to back up Gerry Adams who says he is going to break us basta*ds with the Trojan horse of equality - this after he tried to break us basta*ds for 40 years with bombs and bullets. At least he has a strategy to get rid of us. You are just wishing us away. sheer fantasy

Mike Nesbitt isn't the leader of the UUP anymore.

Aiken unfortunately having already proven to be a weak leader for unionism and the UUP.
The party is in its death throes.

As I said repeatedly, and you conveniently ignored, it's up to unionism to engage. You keep your head in the sand like you always do or you can be part of the conversation. Either way this road we're on only leads to one particular destination.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Yes very simple. Practically anything provided it does not include losing our country.

Cool. Now that wasn't so hard. So now with continued engagement we might be able to meet in the middle somewhere.

Do you like democracy?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Quite a few inaccuracies in that post.
Firstly I was/am a supporter of gfa (with all its problems)
When did the British (I assume you mean government) say they would go with what the Irish people (not sure what you mean by this) elect to do. If this was down to the Irish people alone, or even all the people who live on this island, then you’d probably have your UI in the morning.
Then again if that policy was replicated around the world ie take a land mass and dicide it’s future by majority rule then there would be a fair few wars would break out me thinks. The brits are too smart for that. 😀

The Downing Street Declaration states that the British government had no selfish or strategic interest in remaining in the North.

The GFA states that only the people of Ireland (north and south) can bring about a United Ireland through the principle of consent.

I mean, you're hardly unaware of these concepts are ya? I mean, far be it for me to accuse you of being disingenuous...

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Personally I'd get rid of everything sectarian. OO and glorification of terrorists would be two obvious things that fall under that banner.

You seem intent to keep the two communities apart, I get it, that's SF party line.
I just don't see how you can bring a country and his divided people together like that.

Is naming clubs after Sarsfield or Casement or Pearse (personally I'd wipe Pearse from memory but that's another day's work) considered the same thing I wonder?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Hahaha
I joined this forum due to a farming interest as the name suggests but happened upon the brexit forum. I was chucked off it because they didn’t want anyone telling them a second referendum wasn’t happening etc. I then got sucked by some fantasy I read on this thread, And I think you would like me off here for telling you a border poll isn’t happening.

Where to next?

Yes. That's why you were banned. :rolleyes:

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

And we have about 500,000 nationalist fellow countrymen living in our wee country and I wouldn’t dare make such a patronising demeaning statement about them as you have just made about your fellow countrymen. Shame on you

What's patronising about his statement? You're wile easily offended mo cara.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Let’s accept your argument that Carson was a terrorist. The very valid point being made was the naming of gaa grounds after terrorists
Can you imagine the outcry if NI football called their ground the ‘Lord Carson stadium’ and said it was welcoming to nationalists. Some people on here just can’t hold up the mirror to themselves or their beloved gaa Eh Francie

But Carson was an Irishman? Why would you name a stadium after a foreigner?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Here we go again. Francie living in last century

The 20th?

Better than living in the 17th like your goodself.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Boonie continues to want us turkeys to celebrate Christmas lol
Would these so called planning talks have everything on the table eg
United ireland of one nation
United ireland of two countries
Independent ni
Remaining in uk for ever
Etc

Or would these planning talks be single agenda ie the ending of my country.
Do you see the issue?

I don't want you to do anything. Things, as always, will move on without you.

The schadenfreude would be quite something.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Surprisingly I would agree somewhat with Francie that we can’t just bin all this history.
I disagree with him though about the solution. I think the solution is that we need to be less easily offended.
I am sure I am looking at this through prejudiced glasses but I believe republicans have a more difficult journey that unionists on this one. I actually believe unionist are little interested about eg what gaa clubs are called. This stuff is being raised because they are fed up with what they see as hypocrisy and inequality around these issues
I do agree with you sinbad that certain stuff should be beyond the pail.
And the challenge for me on this is to not be so offended by Irish road signs going up around me. I guess education is the key and I should try to get under the skin of why people want to put them up when they know lots of people feel threatened by them. And vice versa with parades. But of course No one on here will tell me what offends them about today’s loyalist band parades (not OO) so it’s hard to get educated

Why are you threatened by words of the island's native language from which your use of English is derived?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

bubblypop wrote: »

No, people need to be more tolerant
So what if someone's parade goes down the main road of your estate?
Big deal.
Just let them march, then it's over.

I used to live near Croke Park, matches & concerts impinged on my day to day living regularly. I just got on with it.

I used to live off the Clonliffe Road. Croke Park was there before me so I had no real rights to complain about it.

These are triumphalist marches that seek to lord over Nationalists' in Nationalist areas.

They're in no way comparable.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

bubblypop wrote: »

Both sides need tolerance
If marches are conducted as just marches with respect to locals, the locals could be tolerant of the marches

It's that simple isn't it?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Granadino wrote: »

I'd imagine it would be "we don't want a United Ireland, we want to remain in the UK."

In the event of a United Ireland, you'd assume an overwhelming majority would have voted for it. Not sure renaming GAA clubs would fix anything, but if it helped, then yeah, why not.

Would orange marches still be allowed? Bonfires? What would the legality be of bonfires in a united Ireland?

We have bonfires at Halloween. I don't see why the 11th Night bonfires would stop. Though their sectarian (KAT) crap would need to go.

That's wwwaaaayyyy down the line. First thing's first eh?

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I used to live off the Clonliffe Road. Croke Park was there before me so I had no real rights to complain about it.

These are triumphalist marches that seek to lord over Nationalists' in Nationalist areas.

They're in no way comparable.

I'm gonna guess those marches were there before most people that lived there too, so not much of an argument.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm gonna guess those marches were there before most people that lived there too, so not much of an argument.

Right... That's exactly the same and exactly what the argument being made is.

The GAA lording it over me by hosting sport in a stadium. You're something else.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Why are you threatened by words of the island's native language from which your use of English is derived?

Probably the same reason some on here feel threatened by flags and music.
Daft isn’t it

Castlekeeper

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

...
And the challenge for me on this is to not be so offended by Irish road signs going up around me. I guess education is the key and I should try to get under the skin of why people want to put them up when they know lots of people feel threatened by them. And vice versa with parades. But of course No one on here will tell me what offends them about today’s loyalist band parades (not OO) so it’s hard to get educated

Being from the southwest of of Ireland and with no connections in the north, I'm a bit removed from issues discussed here but I like to read the different viewpoints here. I'm genuinely curious a's to why Irish language signs would be so offensive and threatening. Isn't almost every placename made up of Irish words anyway, just spelt in phonetic English (no more than many English placenames) ?

Is it the association of the language with the local republican movement?
But to put that aside, why shouldn't such an intrinsic part of the local social and historical culture be used to add a sense of meaning and connection to many placenames?
Hope this doesn't offend!

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Probably the same reason some on here feel threatened by flags and music.
Daft isn’t it

But those fadas* don't follow you into your housing estate beating lambegs and singing songs about how they are your betters etc.



*There's some homework for you

Nitrogan

Sinn Fein is doing a great job in Northern Ireland.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Right... That's exactly the same and exactly what the argument being made is.

The GAA lording it over me by hosting sport in a stadium. You're something else.

It's your type of attitude that keeps t he bitterness going.
People need to move on & respect one another traditions.
That means, if there's marches, they are done with respect to the locals. & in return the locals just allow/ignore/tolerate the marches.

So long as people keep up the attitude that's it's the 'other sides' problem, we will never move on.

The attitude of, 'Feck them, the will have to put up with it' will only bring resentment. Which is what most people on this island do not want.

Nitrogan

Sinn Fein is evaluating Northern Ireland and will respond in due course.

Runaways

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

And we have about 500,000 nationalist fellow countrymen living in our wee country and I wouldn’t dare make such a patronising demeaning statement about them as you have just made about your fellow countrymen. Shame on you

Are wee country


Jaysis. It’s a province dc. Not a country. A province of Ireland by the way.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

BonnieSituation wrote: »

We have bonfires at Halloween. I don't see why the 11th Night bonfires would stop. Though their sectarian (KAT) crap would need to go.

That's wwwaaaayyyy down the line. First thing's first eh?

they’ll stop hating fenians and taigs? So the bonfires will be there to celebrate what ? What will the point of the marches be?
If it’s to celebrate being Protestant , as they claim, fair enough. If it’s to celebrate being British, they won’t be British anymore so what to do? Hang new flegs?

Sinbad_NI

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Is naming clubs after Sarsfield or Casement or Pearse (personally I'd wipe Pearse from memory but that's another day's work) considered the same thing I wonder?

For me is those involved with the troubles.
Anyone up here over the age of ~35 will remember some of the awful atrocities carried out.
Maybe SF need to do more to help try to heal the damage, I don't have the answers.
But honouring them only drives the communities apart.
Maybe that's they're goal now though, to keep everything polarised, same goes for DUP. That's their core vote after all.

The older generation of republicans are to long gone now to worry about. Not really bothered by them.
Maybe if I was more clued up on the fine detail of the history I'd feel differently, but TBH I'm not, so I don't.

Give it another generation or 2 and I'm sure the pain of the murderers and bombers of more recent history will fade. Many people on both sides have been directly impacted with close family members now gone or scared. Father's, brothers, mother's, sisters etc.
Easier to move on and forget when it's a great grandparent vs a parent.