How long before Irish reunification?

Runaways

10-15 years

NewRed2 wrote: »

Yeah well maybe beyond our generation but if it's the route that avoids more bloodshed then is that not better than rushing it and leaving our kids growing up with the same terrorism and conflict that we grew up with?
In the grand scheme of things another generation isn't long to wait given how long this has been going on for.

Bloodshed from where exactly?

Ira are gone and want a United ireland

Loyalists are just corner boys selling drugs.

There will be no violence

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Using INLA & PIRA members names isn’t too welcoming I’d say.

Nationalists have been passing the statue of the original 'terrorist' Carson, the man who put the gun back in Irish politics for almost 70 years.

There was a conflict/war...it can't be magicked away.
'Live and let live'...is the only way scars will heal. One person's 'terrorist' is another's freedom fighter or defender.

Runaways

10-15 years

bubblypop wrote: »

They are here by choice however, they are not forced to live in the Republic.

Funny thing about democracy.

I didn’t vote for Fine Gael yet I’ve had to live under their bullish!t the past 9 yeasts while they’ve made a balls of everything

Nobody’s forced to do anything.

The very very worst unionists loyalists whatever can expect in a United ireland? They’ll be ignored. Much like everything outside the m50 is.

Best case? Their educational and employment prospects will bloom.

God knows they need both.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Using INLA & PIRA members names isn’t too welcoming I’d say.

Yeah. That's not great of course and I don't condone it. But isn't it best to change an organisation from within? You can't go around demanding change and not engaging.

NewRed2 wrote: »

Yeah well maybe beyond our generation but if it's the route that avoids more bloodshed then is that not better than rushing it and leaving our kids growing up with the same terrorism and conflict that we grew up with?
In the grand scheme of things another generation isn't long to wait given how long this has been going on for.

But you're making an assumption that there will be a resumption in bloodshed. Why would there be?

A UI can only be brought about by exclusively democratic means by the Irish populace, north and south. Any terrorism from loyalist knuckle draggers will be dealt with swiftly.

This is where engagement from the PUL community needs to come in.

bubblypop wrote: »

They are here by choice however, they are not forced to live in the Republic.

Who's forcing anyone?

You seem to have little concern for the 800k or so nationalists that have been forced to live under a jurisdiction they don't agree with for 100 years so far?

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You seem to have little concern for the 800k or so nationalists that have been forced to live under a jurisdiction they don't agree with for 100 years so far?

But that's the whole point. There are people who were forced to live there, their civil rights were ignored & it seemed they were 2nd class citizens.
I would hope everyone has learned from the mistakes of the past.
Inclusion is the way forward. Too many posters on here seem to be like 'Feck them'!
A bit of tolerance for people who may have to live somewhere they didn't want to isn't too much to ask.

I can't see it happening anytime soon however. Unless the UK goes completely belly up after brexit.

Sinbad_NI

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists have been passing the statue of the original 'terrorist' Carson, the man who put the gun back in Irish politics for almost 70 years.

There was a conflict/war...it can't be magicked away.
'Live and let live'...is the only way scars will heal. One person's 'terrorist' is another's freedom fighter or defender.

Just don’t expect NI unionists / British to feel very Irish when a huge part of Irish culture celebrates these people.

NewRed2

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But you're making an assumption that there will be a resumption in bloodshed. Why would there be?
A UI can only be brought about by exclusively democratic means by the Irish populace, north and south. Any terrorism from loyalist knuckle draggers will be dealt with swiftly.
This is where engagement from the PUL community needs to come in.

Yeah I'm making that assumption because it's exactly what would happen.

You seem oblivious to the wants of the Unionists who live in the North, it's not ok to just say screw them, we got what we wanted. They won't accept this without a massive uproar, even if it goes to a vote and it creeps through, or even if its a landslide it still leaves the disgruntled minority and its still fresh enough for them to resume terrorism.
You said earlier that we'll be waiting forever with my attitude but I'm telling you sometimes you have to wait.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

bubblypop wrote: »

But that's the whole point. There are people who were forced to live there, their civil rights were ignored & it seemed they were 2nd class citizens.
I would hope everyone has learned from the mistakes of the past.
Inclusion is the way forward. Too many posters on here seem to be like 'Feck them'!
A bit of tolerance for people who may have to live somewhere they didn't want to isn't too much to ask.

I can't see it happening anytime soon however. Unless the UK goes completely belly up after brexit.

Where do you think the intolerance in a UI will come from?

As regards, how they got to be living in a UI, eh, they would have been asked, via a referendum.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Just don’t expect NI unionists / British to feel very Irish when a huge part of Irish culture celebrates these people.

No one is asking them to. But engagement is where they fall down always Constantly on the margins harping at what should be done and never engaging and castigating those from their own community who have the temerity to attempt to.

NewRed2 wrote: »

Yeah I'm making that assumption because it's exactly what would happen.

You seem oblivious to the wants of the Unionists who live in the North, it's not ok to just say screw them, we got what we wanted. They won't accept this without a massive uproar, even if it goes to a vote and it creeps through, or even if its a landslide it still leaves the disgruntled minority and its still fresh enough for them to resume terrorism.
You said earlier that we'll be waiting forever with my attitude but I'm telling you sometimes you have to wait.

I'm far from oblivious mo cara. They have little choice to accept the democratically accepted wish of a majority of the people from the Six Counties.

The idea that there will be an accepted and sustained uprising of a tiny minority in the event of well organised process, consisting of engagement, assemblies, plans, road maps and two referenda, along with a road map to the eventual UI seems laughable to me and not worthy of halting the progress to a stated end goal in the event of TWO positive votes from the majority of the adults on this island.

NewRed2

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm far from oblivious mo cara. They have little choice to accept the democratically accepted wish of a majority of the people from the Six Counties.

The idea that there will be an accepted and sustained uprising of a tiny minority in the event of well organised process, consisting of engagement, assemblies, plans, road maps and two referenda, along with a road map to the eventual UI seems laughable to me and not worthy of halting the progress to a stated end goal in the event of TWO positive votes from the majority of the adults on this island.

It wouldn't be accepted but yeah it would be sustained (for how long I dont know).
Look, it's admirable that you're so passionate about seeing a united Ireland. I genuinely respect that. Ideally I'd like it too.

I'm not your enemy here.
But we all have to share the consequences of what happens and in my opinion we are not ready yet for what you want.
I don't mean you personally when I say this but if you push too hard for this then it will fail.
If you wait another generation then it may happen.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

NewRed2 wrote: »

It wouldn't be accepted but yeah it would be sustained (for how long I dont know).
Look, it's admirable that you're so passionate about seeing a united Ireland. I genuinely respect that. Ideally I'd like it too.

I'm not your enemy here.
But we all have to share the consequences of what happens and in my opinion we are not ready yet for what you want.
I don't mean you personally when I say this but if you push too hard for this then it will fail.
If you wait another generation then it may happen.

Appreciated.

I just don't see where this violence comes from though.

The thing is, another generation is when?

Personally I don't see a border poll before 2030 anyway. But the Ireland we envision in the event of a YES vote needs to be discussed now.

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Just don’t expect NI unionists / British to feel very Irish when a huge part of Irish culture celebrates these people.

I wouldn't expect them to celebrate them. I don't celebrate parts of their culture too.

That's fine. We just need to find ways of celebrating that don't impinge on others. Demanding rights to march a band through your housing estate celebrating is kinda straight away dubious carry on for a democrat...no?

NewRed2

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Appreciated.

I just don't see where this violence comes from though.

The thing is, another generation is when?

Personally I don't see a border poll before 2030 anyway. But the Ireland we envision in the event of a YES vote needs to be discussed now.

I dunno mate but it aint now. As a country we just arent ready for it.

It's getting there inch by inch but wanting it now doesnt mean now is the right time. Not in my opinion anyway. It would back fire

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

NewRed2 wrote: »

I dunno mate but it aint now. As a country we just arent ready for it.

It's getting there inch by inch but wanting it now doesnt mean now is the right time. Not in my opinion anyway.

No one wants it (a border poll) now. No one sensible anyway. It will take time but the discussion and preparation needs to start now.

NewRed2

BonnieSituation wrote: »

No one wants it (a border poll) now. No one sensible anyway. It will take time but the discussion and preparation needs to start now.

Ok, Fair enough then lets say planning ahead for 2030, that's a decade away.
Lot has changed in 10 years already I suppose. Sure look at SF recently.
So yeah why not.
Question remains how do you fund it?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

NewRed2 wrote: »

Ok, Fair enough then lets say planning ahead for 2030, that's a decade away.
Lot has changed in 10 years already I suppose. Sure look at SF recently.
So yeah why not.
Question remains how do you fund it?

The same way you fund everything.

It really won't be the millstone around our necks that everyone thinks it will be.

NewRed2

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The same way you fund everything.

It really won't be the millstone around our necks that everyone thinks it will be.

If it works out and our government finds a way to run 32 counties when they can't run 26 and if I'm wrong about Dublin getting bombed by angry Unionists and all this can be done by 2030 then I'll be delighted and amazed.
But I wish your vision for a United Ireland the best, I truly do.


I think it will happen alright. But more like 20 or 25 years. I dont think I'll be alive to see it. Honestly. I plan on going young :pac:

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

NewRed2 wrote: »

If it works out and our government finds a way to run 32 counties when they can't run 26 and if I'm wrong about Dublin getting bombed by angry Unionists and all this can be done by 2030 then I'll be delighted and amazed.
But I wish your vision for a United Ireland the best, I truly do.


I think it will happen alright. But more like 20 or 25 years. I dont think I'll be alive to see it. Honestly. I plan on going young :pac:

There's a lot to wish for change in this State right now, but don't make out like you're living in The Gambia or Mauritania.

Also, I said the border poll wouldn't happen til at least 2030. Goodness knows what timeframe would be put on the eventual reunification thereafter. 20 years may be a good shout! 2040 for all!

NewRed2

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There's a lot to wish for change in this State right now, but don't make out like you're living in The Gambia or Mauritania.

Also, I said the border poll wouldn't happen til at least 2030. Goodness knows what timeframe woudl be put on the eventual reunification thereafter. 20 years may be a good shout! 2040 for all!

True! Actually look whatever happens I think the other posters arguing with you earlier will see your point clearer now, I know I do anyway.


Take care pal and besta luck with..... well just besta luck

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

NewRed2 wrote: »

True! Actually look whatever happens I think the other posters arguing with you earlier will see your point clearer now, I know I do anyway.


Take care pal and besta luck with..... well just besta luck

Wishful thinking on behalf of some. Sure we'll see.

NewRed2

ha, mon the Dubs anyway!

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Honestly, I don't really care at this stage. The likes of yourself are lost to the land of bigotry and handouts. You're of no interest.

At some point an Assembly will happen. Engage, don't engage, but don't complain when the day comes and you start shouting "NEVER" from under the sand in which you buried your head.

The most liberal leader ever of the most liberal unionist party ever just said yesterday they won’t EVER be discussing a UI. So you can live in fantasy that I am out of step with my unionists neighbours but you are simply wrong.
Your only hope is to back up Gerry Adams who says he is going to break us basta*ds with the Trojan horse of equality - this after he tried to break us basta*ds for 40 years with bombs and bullets. At least he has a strategy to get rid of us. You are just wishing us away. sheer fantasy

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Let them tell us what they want.

It's very simple.

Yes very simple. Practically anything provided it does not include losing our country.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You tried to opt out of the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA and look what happened.
Because those were the will of the people, things moved on without you. This is a process and it's your decision if you want to be a part of it and contribute to it or if you want to be playing catch up.
The British have said where they are at here...they are going to go with what the Irish people elect to do.

Quite a few inaccuracies in that post.
Firstly I was/am a supporter of gfa (with all its problems)
When did the British (I assume you mean government) say they would go with what the Irish people (not sure what you mean by this) elect to do. If this was down to the Irish people alone, or even all the people who live on this island, then you’d probably have your UI in the morning.
Then again if that policy was replicated around the world ie take a land mass and dicide it’s future by majority rule then there would be a fair few wars would break out me thinks. The brits are too smart for that. 😀

Sinbad_NI

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't expect them to celebrate them. I don't celebrate parts of their culture too.

That's fine. We just need to find ways of celebrating that don't impinge on others. Demanding rights to march a band through your housing estate celebrating is kinda straight away dubious carry on for a democrat...no?

Personally I'd get rid of everything sectarian. OO and glorification of terrorists would be two obvious things that fall under that banner.

You seem intent to keep the two communities apart, I get it, that's SF party line.
I just don't see how you can bring a country and his divided people together like that.

downcow

Runaways wrote: »

Point. Find it weird theres just one token guy only posts on one topic at all.

But here we are.

Has he met blanch? Seems they’d get on

Hahaha
I joined this forum due to a farming interest as the name suggests but happened upon the brexit forum. I was chucked off it because they didn’t want anyone telling them a second referendum wasn’t happening etc. I then got sucked by some fantasy I read on this thread, And I think you would like me off here for telling you a border poll isn’t happening.

Where to next?

downcow

Runaways wrote: »

There’s over 100,000 actual Brits living in Ireland actual meaning the republic. They seem to just get on with it.
It’s not like they’re rounded up and forced to learn our ways.

And we have about 500,000 nationalist fellow countrymen living in our wee country and I wouldn’t dare make such a patronising demeaning statement about them as you have just made about your fellow countrymen. Shame on you

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists have been passing the statue of the original 'terrorist' Carson, the man who put the gun back in Irish politics for almost 70 years.

There was a conflict/war...it can't be magicked away.
'Live and let live'...is the only way scars will heal. One person's 'terrorist' is another's freedom fighter or defender.

Let’s accept your argument that Carson was a terrorist. The very valid point being made was the naming of gaa grounds after terrorists
Can you imagine the outcry if NI football called their ground the ‘Lord Carson stadium’ and said it was welcoming to nationalists. Some people on here just can’t hold up the mirror to themselves or their beloved gaa Eh Francie

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't expect them to celebrate them. I don't celebrate parts of their culture too.

That's fine. We just need to find ways of celebrating that don't impinge on others. Demanding rights to march a band through your housing estate celebrating is kinda straight away dubious carry on for a democrat...no?

Here we go again. Francie living in last century

downcow

NewRed2 wrote: »

Ok, Fair enough then lets say planning ahead for 2030, that's a decade away.
Lot has changed in 10 years already I suppose. Sure look at SF recently.
So yeah why not.
Question remains how do you fund it?

Boonie continues to want us turkeys to celebrate Christmas lol
Would these so called planning talks have everything on the table eg
United ireland of one nation
United ireland of two countries
Independent ni
Remaining in uk for ever
Etc

Or would these planning talks be single agenda ie the ending of my country.
Do you see the issue?