How long before Irish reunification?

Runaways

10-15 years

Just listening to the latest Irish times inside politics podcast and they have Newton Emerson on

It’s comical.

He’s trying to explain how the DUP are now bare faced and blatantly trying to sell what is the backstop / feet in both markets / best for NI
When we all know they were violently against it to begin with and to end with.

But faced with the border in the sea their precious connection to the union is now threatened they see the sense in ‘mays deal’


Oh dear. Who votes for these clowns. Who keeps voting for them

Oh..wait

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

bubblypop wrote: »

Would the unification of the island mean that Northern Ireland would become part of the Republic?
An Garda Siochana are the police force in the republic. so, if any of the PSNI actually wanted to, they would have to join AGS.

If you're unsure to the answer of your first question I think you should head off and read up about the politics of this island and maybe the history of how we got to where we are today.

Mind-blowing that you've continued in the thread and then ask such a question.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Widdensushi wrote: »

that Dublin would have a proper rival for investment in belfast, are you for or against unification, because Dublin with a similar population as northern Ireland might prefer not to have a proper rival for investment

Again, I don't think you understand how economics works in a country.

Ireland is desperate for a counterbalance to Dublin's primacy and omnipotence.

Personally, in the absence of reunification I would be all for a Cork and Limerick focussed programme to help out the fact that Dublin is seizing up.

In the event of reunification the ready-made counterbalance of Belfast and its environs will be most welcome.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Sorry I obviously wasn't clear in what I was asking. Would you be happy to see an increase on your income tax to fund unification? If yes, how much?
Temporarily or permanently?

Sure. No idea. Yes.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

If you're unsure to the answer of your first question I think you should head off and read up about the politics of this island and maybe the history of how we got to wear we are today.

Mind-blowing that you've continued in the thread and then ask such a question.

I don't get your point about bubblypops question. I actually don't know the obvious answer you are hinting at. But this is one of the classic cultural differences in unionists and nationalist on this island. Unionists want accuracy and nothing left to chance. nationalists seem happy with fudges and and then complain after till they get their way to what was their understanding in the fudge - Irish language in gfa is an example

Sinbad_NI

maccored wrote: »

we need to DISCUSS THIS as a nation first and figure out those kinds of issues. personally, I would vouch that anyone employed in the public service that couldnt get a job in whatever new all Ireland public service there is, gets redundancy from their employer (the british government)

I’m sure they’d be offered jobs elsewhere in UK but I seriously doubt they (Westminster) would consider a redundancy package. Good luck getting that over the line.

Pensions would be protected obviously.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Sure. No idea. Yes.

LOL you have no idea how much you would be prepared to pay for a UI - yet you are proposing one LOL

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Unionists want accuracy and nothing left to chance.

:D:D:D:D:D

'Here, let's vote to leave the EU, we have it all sussed, what could go wrong?'

Widdensushi

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Again, I don't think you understand how economics works in a country.

Ireland is desperate for a counterbalance to Dublin's primacy and omnipotence.

Personally, in the absence of reunification I would be all for a Cork and Limerick focussed programme to help out the fact that Dublin is seizing up.

In the event of reunification the ready-made counterbalance of Belfast and its environs will be most welcome.

For this to happen both sides of the border have to be in favour.Lets just ignore the northern result a while. For many people the fact that they could be less well off will be irrelevant. There will be for and against regardless of the consequences to their own standards of living. The deciding vote will be decided how it will affect individuals and their families. Your suggestion seems to be that the people of cork and limerick should rally against Dublin so Belfast can take some of their investment ?

RobMc59

10-15 years

maccored wrote: »

we need to DISCUSS THIS as a nation first and figure out those kinds of issues. personally, I would vouch that anyone employed in the public service that couldnt get a job in whatever new all Ireland public service there is, gets redundancy from their employer (the british government)

So you`re saying Ireland may make people redundant in a UI and Britain should pay for it-I can`t see that getting off the ground tbh.

Widdensushi

RobMc59 wrote: »

So you`re saying Ireland may make people redundant in a UI and Britain should pay for it-I can`t see that getting off the ground tbh.

Any deal would involve Britain paying pensions, redundancies for a while, it obviously couldn't work otherwise, they would be happy as in the longterm it would be costing less than it is now.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Widdensushi wrote: »

Any deal would involve Britain paying pensions, redundancies for a while, it obviously couldn't work otherwise, they would be happy as in the longterm it would be costing less than it is now.

Obviously Britain would pay pensions to those entitled to them.Redundancies is one of the more contentious subjects which would have to be negotiated as I`m sure many British people would say if Ireland decides to make people redundant in the new UI that is Ireland`s responsibility.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Here, let's vote to leave the EU, we have it all sussed, what could go wrong?'

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

If you're unsure to the answer of your first question I think you should head off and read up about the politics of this island and maybe the history of how we got to where we are today.

Mind-blowing that you've continued in the thread and then ask such a question.

I'm well aware of the politics & history.
Point being that we cannot just slip 'back together ' as it were.
As pointed out, different police forces, very different.
Different government departments
Different Laws.
You suggest that Northern Ireland just take on our laws etc?

James Brown

10-15 years

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm well aware of the politics & history.
Point being that we cannot just slip 'back together ' as it were.
As pointed out, different police forces, very different.
Different government departments
Different Laws.
You suggest that Northern Ireland just take on our laws etc?

I would expect so. That's what it would entail. What kind of unification would be separate in all but name?
I think the PSNI could easily become AGS. They already changed from the RUC, be the same process I'd imagine. Also if Harris is still around even more so.
Same would go for public/civil servants. Be a waste to let them all go then advertise for replacements. Somebody will need run the area.

downcow

Bowie wrote: »

I would expect so. That's what it would entail. What kind of unification would be separate in all but name?
I think the PSNI could easily become AGS. They already changed from the RUC, be the same process I'd imagine. Also if Harris is still around even more so.
Same would go for public/civil servants. Be a waste to let them all go then advertise for replacements. Somebody will need run the area.

Hahaha The AGS are going to police East Belfast etc. Are you really serious or having a laugh!

World war III LOL

I does show some of the naivety of this whole idea

I don't think it would be simple at all.
Firstly you're asking the people if the North to become part of the Republic, not any kind of a new state, just try to slot into our country. Not surprised some would be against that.

Police forces are very very different, I would think a lot of psni men wouldn't want to join AGS. It's a completely different organisation, with different procedures etc

All laws in Northern Ireland would have to be changed to our laws. Why not a whole New bunch of laws?

That's only scratching the surface. It's not simple at all.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Hahaha The AGS are going to police East Belfast etc. Are you really serious or having a laugh!

World war III LOL

I does show some of the naivety of this whole idea

No, there would be one umbrella police force answerable to one central government.

Wouldn't work any other way.

RobMc59

10-15 years

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't think it would be simple at all.
Firstly you're asking the people if the North to become part of the Republic, not any kind of a new state, just try to slot into our country. Not surprised some would be against that.

Police forces are very very different, I would think a lot of psni men wouldn't want to join AGS. It's a completely different organisation, with different procedures etc

All laws in Northern Ireland would have to be changed to our laws. Why not a whole New bunch of laws?

That's only scratching the surface. It's not simple at all.

Perhaps the PSNI and AGS could be gradually merged over a mutually agreed time period(possibly five to ten years?)with the PSNI still responsible for the general policing of the former six counties initially.

Fred Cryton

Nothing to be gained from a United Ireland. The tax surpluses generated in the Greater Dublin region would simply have to be sent north to subsidize 6 extra counties where half the people there despise us and the other half vote SF.

A UI made more sense a generation ago when wealth came from land and manufacturing. Now in this globalised world and Dublin being a highly globalised city with many multinational HQ's in the service & tech sector, it makes absolutely no sense. High fences make good neighbours.

downcow

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Nothing to be gained from a United Ireland. The tax surpluses generated in the Greater Dublin region would simply have to be sent north to subsidize 6 extra counties where half the people there despise us and the other half vote SF.

A UI made more sense a generation ago when wealth came from land and manufacturing. Now in this globalised world and Dublin being a highly globalised city with many multinational HQ's in the service & tech sector, it makes absolutely no sense. High fences make good neighbours.

Spot on And we have PIRA to thank that there will never ever be a UI

James Brown

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Hahaha The AGS are going to police East Belfast etc. Are you really serious or having a laugh!

World war III LOL

I does show some of the naivety of this whole idea

Be the same PSNI in a different outfit. Grow up.
What happened when the RUC disbanded, they flew in Starsky and Hutch from the states?

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't think it would be simple at all.
Firstly you're asking the people if the North to become part of the Republic, not any kind of a new state, just try to slot into our country. Not surprised some would be against that.

Police forces are very very different, I would think a lot of psni men wouldn't want to join AGS. It's a completely different organisation, with different procedures etc

All laws in Northern Ireland would have to be changed to our laws. Why not a whole New bunch of laws?

That's only scratching the surface. It's not simple at all.

Never suggested we wouldn't need make changes.

If they want to quit policing, fine.

Why not? The laws would be adjusted under any worked out unification I'd imagine.

Never said it would be simple. East and West Germany did it. A lot more differences to adjust there.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I don't get your point about bubblypops question. I actually don't know the obvious answer you are hinting at. But this is one of the classic cultural differences in unionists and nationalist on this island. Unionists want accuracy and nothing left to chance. nationalists seem happy with fudges and and then complain after till they get their way to what was their understanding in the fudge - Irish language in gfa is an example

Are you saying only Unionists can understand nuance?

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

I’m sure they’d be offered jobs elsewhere in UK but I seriously doubt they (Westminster) would consider a redundancy package. Good luck getting that over the line.

Pensions would be protected obviously.

Like when we left the UK in 1922, pensions would be a legacy issue. Though the brits will try to weasel out of it if they could.

downcow wrote: »

LOL you have no idea how much you would be prepared to pay for a UI - yet you are proposing one LOL

Of course I don't know how much this hypothetical scenario will cost. how are you so myopic?

I'm also proposing nothing. A UI is a stated goal of this State. So I'm just going along with that and the GFA.

Widdensushi wrote: »

For this to happen both sides of the border have to be in favour.Lets just ignore the northern result a while. For many people the fact that they could be less well off will be irrelevant. There will be for and against regardless of the consequences to their own standards of living. The deciding vote will be decided how it will affect individuals and their families. Your suggestion seems to be that the people of cork and limerick should rally against Dublin so Belfast can take some of their investment ?

You need to stop using the word "suggest" and just read what I write.

We are constantly being told that there's a substantial amount in the ROI against reunification. So I'm saying that it's high time that they rally around that cause, because the rest of us are pretty happy with reunification and the current road on which we are on.

It's not the job of nationalists' to do partionists' jobs for them.

RobMc59 wrote: »

So you`re saying Ireland may make people redundant in a UI and Britain should pay for it-I can`t see that getting off the ground tbh.

I stated above that the likely way that people will leave the bloated administrative side of the public sector would be through natural wastage and voluntary redundancy. But in the early years a substantial admin staff will be required of course.

RobMc59 wrote: »

Obviously Britain would pay pensions to those entitled to them.Redundancies is one of the more contentious subjects which would have to be negotiated as I`m sure many British people would say if Ireland decides to make people redundant in the new UI that is Ireland`s responsibility.

You've jumped quite ahead there with your redundancy assumptions.

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm well aware of the politics & history.
Point being that we cannot just slip 'back together ' as it were.
As pointed out, different police forces, very different.
Different government departments
Different Laws.
You suggest that Northern Ireland just take on our laws etc?

They're a common law jurisdiction like we are. It really wouldn't be as difficult as you think.

Bowie wrote: »

I would expect so. That's what it would entail. What kind of unification would be separate in all but name?
I think the PSNI could easily become AGS. They already changed from the RUC, be the same process I'd imagine. Also if Harris is still around even more so.
Same would go for public/civil servants. Be a waste to let them all go then advertise for replacements. Somebody will need run the area.

downcow wrote: »

Hahaha The AGS are going to police East Belfast etc. Are you really serious or having a laugh!

World war III LOL

I does show some of the naivety of this whole idea

In the event of a UI why would the Police Service of Ireland have an issue patrolling anywhere within its jurisdiction?

Do you relish them being attacked in East Belfast or Carrickfergus?

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't think it would be simple at all.
Firstly you're asking the people if the North to become part of the Republic, not any kind of a new state, just try to slot into our country. Not surprised some would be against that.

Police forces are very very different, I would think a lot of psni men wouldn't want to join AGS. It's a completely different organisation, with different procedures etc

All laws in Northern Ireland would have to be changed to our laws. Why not a whole New bunch of laws?

That's only scratching the surface. It's not simple at all.

Just like the AGS and the DMP eh?

Common Law... be grand.

RobMc59 wrote: »

Perhaps the PSNI and AGS could be gradually merged over a mutually agreed time period(possibly five to ten years?)with the PSNI still responsible for the general policing of the former six counties initially.

Just like the AGS and the DMP eh? It's almost exactly how this is gonna play out.

RobMc59

10-15 years

There`s a common theme runs through this thread that `how it`s going to be`is what people who are either Irish nationalist/republicans or sympathizers want with very little thought about what the rest of NI want.Thankfully,in reality,it won`t be anything like that if the situation arose.

FrancieBrady

One of the questions the British might like answered at a citizens assembly or UI discussion is 'how much is the current situation going to cost them going forward'.

That will be a scary figure in itself, and they won't get a thing back for it all, only a knife in the front from Nationalists and one or two in the back from Unionists. It will be worth a fair investment if it means it eventually stops costing them.

JamesM

Bowie wrote: »

Never said it would be simple. East and West Germany did it. A lot more differences to adjust there.

Don't talk rubbish.
East and west Germany are the same race, only divided for 45 years. The Unionists in NI mostly came from Scotland and England over 400 years ago.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

JamesM wrote: »

Don't talk rubbish.
East and west Germany are the same race, only divided for 45 years. The Unionists in NI mostly came from Scotland and England over 400 years ago.

You’re saying unionists are a different race now? I am guessing the east and west Germany were all for reunification. That’s the difference.
United Ireland? Make a concession and join the commonwealth as a gesture to unionists.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Granadino wrote: »

You’re saying unionists are a different race now? I am guessing the east and west Germany were all for reunification. That’s the difference.
United Ireland? Make a concession and join the commonwealth as a gesture to unionists.

Concession concession concession...

I tell ya what, let's ask the Unionists to engage in good faith first with a Citizen's assembly and tell us what they would like in the event of a UI...

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

One of the questions the British might like answered at a citizens assembly or UI discussion is 'how much is the current situation going to cost them going forward'.

That will be a scary figure in itself, and they won't get a thing back for it all, only a knife in the front from Nationalists and one or two in the back from Unionists. It will be worth a fair investment if it means it eventually stops costing them.

I`d imagine the British would be willing to pay their share of a UI but would`nt see themselves as funding the whole show.Equally,I`d think the British would expect the people of NI to have a significant input to how the place is run(policing etc).

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Concession concession concession...

I tell ya what, let's ask the Unionists to engage in good faith first with a Citizen's assembly and tell us what they would like in the event of a UI...

Why would a unionist want to be in a United Ireland ? They’d no longer be unionists. They’d be British people living in a different “country” according to their definition of the 26 counties.

And if they did ask to join the commonwealth...?

I don’t know. Have some kind of federal Ireland initially ...?