Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

jimbobaloobob

For sure
I'm just making the point media is quick to point out whose going to make this right again and they are very quick to take the limelight.

Thargor

Paris is massive.

Spanish Eyes

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

€600,000,000 already pledged. It sits uncomfortable with me how quick big organisations are to pledge to restore a building when you think of some of the tragedies and atrocities like Darfur, Aleppo, Ethiopia, Haiti to name just four that we hear all so regular in the news after their disasters.

How do you know that they haven't contributed?

An issue like ND is easy to support for cultural reasons and have your name behind it. But if you plaster your name all over other tragedies, you will be forever castigated.

They cannot win.

Mearings

Raise High the Roof Beams, Carpenters.

rossie1977

4ensic15 wrote: »

St mel's Cathedral in Longford burned down and there was no great outpouring of grief in ireland or anywhere else. A burned cathedral is just that, a burned cathedral.

Around the local area there was which is the reason they were able to raise so much money and basically rebuild the entire structure from ground up in 5 years.

Obviously St Mel's isn't as well known as Notre Dame which is probably most famous church in the world.

batgoat wrote: »

If they want to replicate it precisely, it will cost billions. Longford Cathedral is tiny in contrast to it and far less complex a structure. So it's hardly comparing like with like.

Smaller sure but the interior of Longford was completely destroyed which isn't the case with Notre Dame. I think 5 years that it can reopen to the public is an achievable timeline. Obviously you don't need the roof to be fully completed before reopening.

La Sagrada Familia is undergoing construction for last 100+ years and it's open to the public

Spanish Eyes

I think this will turn out to be another Sagrada Familia.

How many years are they restoring that now? Saw it from the outside because the Q was just too long to go in, and anyway I could see inside on t'internet anyway. Sometimes outside view is just marvellous and it is all we need. Felt the same when I saw the crowds Queuing in Seville for the Cathedral, and so many other places that required a hike up a million steps etc.

Just me I suppose, but I got the majesty of so many places from outside only.

fryup

am i right in saying visitors were charged for going into ND?

if so surely they made enough over the years to pay for this reconstruction?

riffmongous

B0jangles wrote: »

I heard that and thought that has to be a mistranslation, but no, apparently he really thinks it can be done and done well in 5 years.

That's sounds insane to me. I would have estimated that it'd take 5 years just to plan the project - to survey the rest of the building for any hidden damage, to identify and source the various materials and experts needed for each element that's been lost.

Hopefully the promise will be put down as a heat of the moment thing and he will let it slide. I'd hate for this to turn into a massive rush job just to satisfy a politician's ego and desire to still be in power for the ribbon-cutting ceremony

The Stephansdom in Vienna was restored in 7 years after a fire at the end of WW2, where there's a will there's a way

10000maniacs

Thargor wrote: »

Paris is massive.

And flat. Where are all the skyscrapers?

Thargor

Theres a height restriction in their planning, except they have a skyline worth protecting unlike Dublins pointless sprawl. You can see a load of skyscrapers over in their financial district similar to the City in London from any high point though.

rossie1977

10000maniacs wrote: »

And flat. Where are all the skyscrapers?

All in same area at La Defense



Tour Montparnasse stands completely alone at 689 foot

The Rape of Lucretia

Its sorta Macron's Reichstag fire, and Falklands War, in one.

The rebuild being very quick is essential for the manoeuvre to pay off : distracting from the gilets jaunes, taking the spotlight away from him personally, uniting France behind a sense of nation and purpose to restore its glory, if not economically, then culturally, and allowing him to be seen as a leader, statesman, and the saying the right thing with gravitas, slick words, and a sincerity so faked you are distracted from its fakeness as you marvel at the quality of his acting of that sincerity.
Its unveiling will be schedulable wherever in the middle of his second term, at a moment that he needs it to play the same image boost/distract game again.

He is a smart strategist.

Spanish Eyes

Will be a French issue only tomorrow now that the facade and interior has not been totally destroyed.

The era of instant news is upon us. Notre Dame is over for most of us now.

Next!

emilymemily

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

€600,000,000 already pledged. It sits uncomfortable with me how quick big organisations are to pledge to restore a building when you think of some of the tragedies and atrocities like Darfur, Aleppo, Ethiopia, Haiti to name just four that we hear all so regular in the news after their disasters.

Money sent to these countries isnt used in the correct way, think of the billions that has been raised for parts of Africa over the last 20 - 30 years and theyre still poverty stricken countries with starvation, their education system is run by European volunteers that donate thousands to go over and still basic literacy skills are lacking among most of the population.
The money gets eaten up by corrupt governments, organizations and charities.

Spanish Eyes

emilymemily wrote: »

Money sent to these countries isnt used in the correct way, think of the billions that has been raised for parts of Africa over the last 20 - 30 years and theyre still poverty stricken countries with starvation, their education system is run by European volunteers that donate thousands to go over and still basic literacy skills are lacking among most of the population.
The money gets eaten up by corrupt governments, organizations and charities.

Eh, leaving aside charitable donations we here in Ireland are contributing the bones of E750 million per annum to Foreign Aid.

But anyway, there are still ads out there looking for more for their charities. I am baffled by that, but I suppose Empires need building.

hmmm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its sorta Macron's Reichstag fire, and Falklands War, in one.

I don't much like the Reichstag reference because it makes it sound like he engineered this - and we've enough bull**** conspiracy theories already.

But the rest of the post I agree with - it suits him very well to have a grand project which France can unify behind, and it will be very difficult for any of his political opponents to find fault. France tends to do big arty projects very well.

The Rape of Lucretia

hmmm wrote: »

I don't much like the Reichstag reference because it makes it sound like he engineered this

No it doesnt. An lone arsonist started that one, although the chance opportunity was seized upon for exploitation.

Roger_007

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Eh, leaving aside charitable donations we here in Ireland are contributing the bones of E750 million per annum to Foreign Aid.

But anyway, there are still ads out there looking for more for their charities. I am baffled by that, but I suppose Empires need building.

Im a bit suspicious of the motivation behind some of the very large donations which have been promised. If it is just a genuine wish to help rebuild the cathedral, then the donations could have been made anonymously. Otherwise it looks like availing of a golden opportunity to get good publicity.

Spanish Eyes

Will be all forgotten now, and the chosen few will get the contracts.

Spanish Eyes

Roger_007 wrote: »

Im a bit suspicious of the motivation behind some of the very large donations which have been promised. If it is just a genuine wish to help rebuild the cathedral, then the donations could have been made anonymously. Otherwise it looks like availing of a golden opportunity to get good publicity.

Such is life. They will be remembered for protecting the heritage of France, but no one will remember a donation to Sudan or wherever, because it seems to end up in someone else's pocket and no improvement for that country.

Strange how threads morph, but anyway.

Richard Hillman

Hopefully all money from the EU refused. The rebuild should be funded privately only. I have seen far too many iconic structures scarred with EU flags outside.

Roger_007

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Hopefully all money from the EU refused. The rebuild should be funded privately only. I have seen far too many iconic structures scarred with EU flags outside.

Yeah, it would be much more appropriate if they renamed it The L'Oreal Notre Dame or the Total Notre Dame when they rebuild it!

Skylinehead

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think this will turn out to be another Sagrada Familia.

How many years are they restoring that now?

0. They haven't even finished building it!

Strumms

Roger_007 wrote: »

Im a bit suspicious of the motivation behind some of the very large donations which have been promised. If it is just a genuine wish to help rebuild the cathedral, then the donations could have been made anonymously. Otherwise it looks like availing of a golden opportunity to get good publicity.

Kinda agree with you, if your sole reason for making a donation is to help, just donate and help, then sit back, watch, enjoy the rebuilding even the satisfaction for contributing. But here we are, 2019 where the attention seeking is almost an acceptable artform and or competitive sport and the idea that you could do something AND shut the fuçk up is highly unlikely.

jimbobaloobob

emilymemily wrote: »

Money sent to these countries isnt used in the correct way, think of the billions that has been raised for parts of Africa over the last 20 - 30 years and theyre still poverty stricken countries with starvation, their education system is run by European volunteers that donate thousands to go over and still basic literacy skills are lacking among most of the population.
The money gets eaten up by corrupt governments, organizations and charities.

I agree, i was only making the point to highlight how quickly media picks up on the rescue or revival of a western tragedy as opposed to a conflict area of the world.

SEPT 23 1989

The money that is being fired around is disturbing

I'm sure the peasants felt the same way when they started building it

vargoo

Money pledged, not given.

Is their no insurance?

gozunda

fryup wrote: »

am i right in saying visitors were charged for going into ND?

if so surely they made enough over the years to pay for this reconstruction?

Basic entry was free. Guided tours of the towers involved a fee. Though there were so many tourists visiting the church - you often ended up having to queue even if you're only heading their for a bit of contemplating or whatever...

The church itself was under much needed restoration when the fire started and much of that had been raised privately afaik.

vargoo wrote: »

Money pledged, not given.

Is their no insurance?

News reports today suggested that the Insurance companies were expecting the French government to pick up the tab. Not sure where the logic of that is tbh.

Edit:

It's this

The French state’s policy is to bear the cost of reconstruction of historical monuments such as Notre-Dame cathedral in the event of disasters.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2019/04/16/523998.htm

Roger_007

vargoo wrote: »

Money pledged, not given.

Is their no insurance?

Building insurance normally covers the cost of rebuilding or repair.
What insurance company would cover a building that could potentially cost billions to rebuild if it was damaged or destroyed?

vargoo

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/04/after-fire-photos-inside-notre-dame-cathedral/587299/