Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Strumms wrote: »

Regardless of the intent of its being there, for the glory of god or the glory of mascarpone cheese... most people see it as a feat of beautiful architecture and by proxy a feat of mans ingenuity. That’s a fact.

The geometry of Gothic architecture is all about aspiration and elevation, symbolizing humankind reaching beyond itself and toward God. Given what we know about medieval Christianity, it's virtually impossible to look at Notre Dame as representing man's ingenuity -- that's very much an Enlightenment model of thinking that did not come into vogue for nearly half a millennium after Notre Dame was built.

GM228

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

They are saying 20 years to fix it. What a pity. And it will be a building site until then, we little or no access to it.

York Minster took 4 years, Windsor Castle 5, whilst it is bigger giving more challenges I can't see it taking 20 years.

Corby Trouser Press

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Theres two of ye in it, the ultras of the atheist movement who despise the cathedral because it is Catholic, and the ultra catholics who think we can't mourn a building unless we are Catholics. Tiny groups to be fair but vocal.

I'd mourn the Taj Mahal if it burnt to the ground, and I mourned the destruction of the Buddhist statues. No man is an island. No culture is an island.

Mourn away for whatever reason suits you... I don't know where you are getting the ultra Catholics opposing secular mourning angle from?

The Palmyra destruction and other ISIS crimes against heritage of recent years is probably worse then the damage done to Notre Dame.

All of humanity, religious or not, loses out when these incidents occur.

My point stands that there is a fair consensus from Official Ireland, whether it be calculated or just a reflex, that the religious significance of this site should be minimized in acknowledgements, lest they be seen as somehow endorsing Catholicism.

fonecrusher1

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I feel sad for people who cannot see the wonder and beauty of Notre Dame
They are so busy trying to be edgy and seek attention that the beauty passes them by . Thats sad really

This is Boards my friend. Along with the friendly, silly and sometimes intelligent discussion comes the fact that its also a platform for the sad and friendless basement dwellers. The hermit folk. Mute above ground, raging armchair war lords on the keyboard. Its an outlet for them to actually communicate with non hermit people from afar and say things they simply wouldn't in real life.

So basically I wouldn't worry about it.

jasper100

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You have absolutely no idea about the people singing and their lives so your conjecture is pointless

I was responding to somebody who was on here claiming the singers hearts were weeping with sorrow.

Do you agree that he has no idea about those people either and that he is spouting sh1t?

Cienciano

Snow Garden wrote: »

To be honest the area around the Taj Mahal is an absolutely kip. So much pollution and rubbish.

Yeah, it's called India

RobbingBandit

The challenge of restoring Notre Dame to as close to its former glory will definitely be helped by the massive amount of imagery available in the 360 degree tour guide and art recordings of the cathedral some of the details available online pretty much show the cobwebs in the alcoves. It's all there to see and with enough money hopefully it can all be replicated and restored.

Maybe that's why they're saying 20 years as the details in some of the statues the glass panels the stone masonry too will take time to recreate it's one place I always longed to visit so much to see seeing it in those videos and on screen on TV or films will never compare to being under the shadow of those towers hopefully when it's repaired I can finally get to experience it in person.

splashuum

https://twitter.com/tipsypianobar/status/1117938596952993793?s=21

Suspicious male cought lurking in the building while in flames.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

For people saying “Who cares, it’s just a building” - I’ve never visited Paris but my favourite church that I’ve visited is Hallgrímskirkja in Reykjavík. A sparse, sleek beauty of a building, both inside and out with amazing views from its spire. I would be devastated if it was destroyed. Absolutely devastated. People can feel attached to buildings that they have visited. Sometimes just for the beauty of the building, sometimes because of the memories thinking about that place brings.

Great architecture and art exist because it resonates with many of us so deeply. I feel sad thinking about the artworks that were lost in the collapse of the World Trade Center. Obviously that sadness doesn’t supersede the sadness I felt at the senseless loss of life. It’s many tiers below that sadness but it still exists.

coolshannagh28

Sofia Damaged Lodging wrote: »

The geometry of Gothic architecture is all about aspiration and elevation, symbolizing humankind reaching beyond itself and toward God. Given what we know about medieval Christianity, it's virtually impossible to look at Notre Dame as representing man's ingenuity -- that's very much an Enlightenment model of thinking that did not come into vogue for nearly half a millennium after Notre Dame was built.

The use of tuned stone to create a building with such height and light 850 years ago which can still survive a catastrophic fire is a homage to ingenuity.

ToBeFrank123

GM228 wrote: »

York Minster took 4 years, Windsor Castle 5, whilst it is bigger giving more challenges I can't see it taking 20 years.

Well it took almost 200 years to build it. The 19th century renovation took 20 years, and the current renovation was scheduled to take 20 years.

So yes I can see it taking 20 years easily.

There are some things that will be helped by modern lifting equipment. But the problem with Notre Dame is that it was almost a work of art with intricate carvings, wooden or stone, sculpture, stained glass and so on. It will take time to replicate that detail, if it can be replicated. There's also the steeple which was a huge structure. That could take years to construct and lift on top, and it will be probably one of the last things to be built.

In total it will be a very slow process. I saw a figure of 100 million cost mentioned but that seems very low. It could easily go up to 500 million at a minimum.

Mrcaramelchoc

Its amazing the rich French people are falling over themselves to donate money to fix a building.but poverty and homelessness are rife there to.i don't see the rich running to their aid.its a **** ing building.

Irish Guitarist

A couple of years ago I went for a walk around Carlow Castle and saw someone had sprayed graffiti, including the word IRA, all over it. I thought it was disgusting. It's been there for centuries, was built through blood sweat and tears and then some braindead scumbag just sprays bullshit all over it.

Whoever did this has the same attitude of disrespect that some people here have. There's generations of people that devoted their entire adult lives to building Notre Dame Cathedral and it's been standing for almost a millennia so fuck off with that 'just a building' shite.

ToBeFrank123

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The use of tuned stone to create a building with such height and light 850 years ago which can still survive a catastrophic fire is a homage to ingenuity.

The people of the middle ages put everything it seems into their churches and cathedrals. They were their version of the Pyramids or ancient Temples.

What happened to Notre Dame is as big an event as the blowing up of the Parthenon imo.

Hoboo

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

What happened to Notre Dame is as big an event as the blowing up of the Parthenon imo.

In 1687? I remember it like it was yesterday

Cienciano

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

For people saying “Who cares, it’s just a building” - I’ve never visited Paris but my favourite church that I’ve visited is Hallgrímskirkja in Reykjavík. A sparse, sleek beauty of a building, both inside and out with amazing views from its spire. I would be devastated if it was destroyed. Absolutely devastated. People can feel attached to buildings that they have visited. Sometimes just for the beauty of the building, sometimes because of the memories thinking about that place brings.

Great architecture and art exist because it resonates with many of us so deeply. I feel sad thinking about the artworks that were lost in the collapse of the World Trade Center. Obviously that sadness doesn’t supersede the sadness I felt at the senseless loss of life. It’s many tiers below that sadness but it still exists.

I've been to a few great cathedrals, Koln, York, sagrada familia, Florence, Milan etc. I think Milan duomo and Koln are ones that are fúcking amazing looking buildings. Ones you can just look at and spend a day around. It's fairly easy for me to ignore anyone who says "it's just a building". It's not even trolling, it's that stupid. It's like comparing the Concord to a Lada. "It's just a vehicle to bring you from A to B". It's like flat earthers, is such a dumb stance to take it's not worth taking the time to explain or argue.

dublinman1990

I just heard that a charity concert will be held in Paris at 8pm this Saturday night to raise funds for Notre Dame.

A lovely gesture from all of the people involved with it's organisation. I hope it goes well.

storker

I was wondering how long it would take these guys to crawl out from under their rocks following the fire:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/notre-dame-fire-fox-news-conspiracy-theory-paris-cathedral-cause-a8871876.html

(I mean the CTs, not Fox, heh, heh.)

Manic Moran

kippy wrote: »

There are helicopters and planes that can be used in firefighting, however these are:
1. Usually only used on forest/brush/gorse fires.
2. Operate from a decent height.
3. Would not usually be too accurate with here the water falls (and as such may miss the fire entirely and or causing more harm than good due to the inaccuracy of the water and weight of said water on wooden structure IF most of it fell on the Cathedral.

In addition to their impracticality for this issue, they would be used very rarely near Paris and I doubt any could be mobilised fast.

Just because we most frequently see them in wildfire drops doesn't mean it's the only way to do it. Fire departments in high density high-rise cities such as Tokyo and Moscow would beg to differ with the above. They have helicopters specifically designed for spraying into fires in high-rise buildings or from above. Think of them as flying hose platforms.


There just isn't such an equipped helicopter in all of France, apparently.

Danzy

Manic Moran wrote: »

Just because we most frequently seen wildfire drops doesn't mean it's the only way to do it. Fire departments in high density high-rise cities such as Tokyo and Moscow would beg to differ with the above. They have helicopters specifically designed for spraying into fires in high-rise buildings or from above. Think of them as flying hose platforms.


There just isn't such an equipped helicopter in all of France, apparently.

Their approach seems to have been exemplary and the only reason most of Notre Dame was saved.

What is right in one place can be a disaster in another place.

In this line of specific firefighting work it is safe to say there is no other force who would have a fraction of the expertise, in most they would have none, never mind multi generational.

storker

Cienciano wrote: »

It's not even trolling, it's that stupid. It's like comparing the Concord to a Lada. "It's just a vehicle to bring you from A to B". It's like flat earthers, is such a dumb stance to take it's not worth taking the time to explain or argue.

Yep the scale of St. Peter's is amazing and you can't help but be awestruck. I particularly like the striped stonework of the cathedrals in Siena and Orvieto. Likewise, although it's not a cathedral, the Pantheon in Rome. I can't understand how anyone of sound mind could fail to be impressed.

I'm another of those atheists who likes churches, and speaking of Rome, I'd highly recommend Sant' Andrea delle Fratte which is just a small block or two from the Trevi. Not big, and doesn't look like anything special from the outside, but amazingly ornate inside...numerous side altars (or whatever they're called) and not a square inch of undecorated wall or ceiling. Beautiful. We found it quite by accident..just passing by when my wife said "Let's just take a quick look in here..."

emilymemily

Those saying its just a building have no understanding or appreciation for art or history, Notre Dame is a reflection into the past, dating back to the 12th century, architecture like that isnt created today and never will be again, its a true reflection on the craftsmanship and incredible capability of people when they put their mind to something, the beauty that can be created if the time and talent is put into it. Not to mention, Paris is known for notre dame, it's what contributes to the fascination and romanticism associated with the city - anyone who has been to Paris will know the city to be relatively grey and uninteresting, its the historical and beautiful monuments that give Paris its character.
That building over looked the revolution, world wars, it was visited by some of the greatest people throughout history, Joan of Arc being one of them. To have something so beautiful and historic destroyed is a tragedy.
By the sounds of things it's fixable anyway, the structure is still intact so it could have been much worse, goes to show how well it was built, nearly a thousand years of wear and tear and massive fire couldnt even bring it down. If that where a building built today, it'd be dust within 30 minutes.

rossie1977

Snow Garden wrote: »

Taj Mahal is in big trouble already.

https://www.businessinsider.com/taj-mahal-under-threat-of-demolition-due-to-neglect-and-pollution-2018-7

To be honest the area around the Taj Mahal is an absolutely kip. So much pollution and rubbish.

I was there last month and expected it to be in state of disrepair given stories like this but could see nothing obvious. Whole thing just glistens in the sun. Certainly from being up close it still looks magestic and not in any danger of being knocked any time soon.

It's also completely walled off from the surrounding city so rubbish isn't an issue, pollution maybe but Agra is a small city in comparison to Delhi.

Manic Moran

Danzy wrote: »

In this line of specific firefighting work it is safe to say there is no other force who would have a fraction of the expertise, in most they would have none, never mind multi generational.

Just imagine how much more capable they would be if they were able to combine their expertise with a better equipment selection? It's not as if they chose not to use a helo. There was no suitable helo for them to choose if they wanted to or not.

Trump inappropriateness notwithstanding, what do the Japanese know about firefighting in cities that the French or British don't? Or is it just a dollars/Euros issue, such as New York found out?

topper75

Anteayer wrote: »

It's been at the heart of an empire and saw an idealistic Republic lose its way with the coronation of Napoleon Bonaparte.

Agree with your sentiment but just to be pedantic about this point:
Just because Boney was a tyrant does not mean the period before him was all that idealistic. The were backstabbing the ****e out of each other. They basically ate themselves. Or were going to until he gave focus.

storker

topper75 wrote: »

Agree with your sentiment but just to be pedantic about this point:
Just because Boney was a tyrant does not mean the period before him was all that idealistic. The were backstabbing the ****e out of each other. They basically ate themselves. Or were going to until he gave focus.

Exactly. Unless one considers Robespierre's bloodlust or the Directory's venal incompetence, to be the right way for France. If Liberté, Egalité & Fraternité were the right way for France, then that way was lost sometime around September 1793 with the start of the Reign of Terror, about the same time that a certain young artillery officer was arriving to take up his first command at Toulon.

Anteayer

Different fire services are going to take different approaches. We don't know if a helicopter would have been any more effective but we do know that the Paris fire services are extremely familiar with dealing with low rise, dense, very historic buildings.

To compare old parts of Paris to almost any US city really doesn't make sense. They're nothing like each other.

I think Trump's comments are just armchair fire fighting. He hasn't any more knowledge of this than anyone on this thread has. He's more like a radio shockjock than a president. He just wants to create discussion around his own Twitter account.

What's annoying people is he keeps doing this kind of thing. It's not helpful, much like his comments on raking forests.

We all know someone like that but mostly they're not tweeting at people from the Whitehouse.

MrMusician18

storker wrote: »

Yep the scale of St. Peter's is amazing and you can't help but be awestruck. I particularly like the striped stonework of the cathedrals in Siena and Orvieto. Likewise, although it's not a cathedral, the Pantheon in Rome. I can't understand how anyone of sound mind could fail to be impressed.

I'm another of those atheists who likes churches, and speaking of Rome, I'd highly recommend Sant' Andrea delle Fratte which is just a small block or two from the Trevi. Not big, and doesn't look like anything special from the outside, but amazingly ornate inside...numerous side altars (or whatever they're called) and not a square inch of undecorated wall or ceiling. Beautiful. We found it quite by accident..just passing by when my wife said "Let's just take a quick look in here..."

I'd still be in Rome if I had a quick look in at all the places I would've liked to.
A wonderful city.

Edgware

topper75 wrote: »

Agree with your sentiment but just to be pedantic about this point:
Just because Boney was a tyrant does not mean the period before him was all that idealistic. The were backstabbing the ****e out of each other. They basically ate themselves. Or were going to until he gave focus.

A bit like the Shinner Ard Fheis so

Timberrrrrrrr

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

Its amazing the rich French people are falling over themselves to donate money to fix a building.but poverty and homelessness are rife there to.i don't see the rich running to their aid.its a **** ing building.

Would you say the same if the G.P.O or the 4 courts burned down tomorrow?