Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

nc6000

Deleted User wrote: »

Remarkable little gif from inside.

https://www.reddit.com/comments/bdvwpz

I'm amazed at how untouched most of the interior is and that the rose windows are OK.

When watching the news on Monday I thought we would be looking at a pile of rubble in a few hours.

B0jangles

nc6000 wrote: »

I'm amazed at how untouched most of the interior is and that the rose windows are OK.

When watching the news on Monday I thought we would be looking at a pile of rubble in a few hours.

I was thinking the same; maybe it's because normally when you see flames like that, it's after they worked their way up from ground level so by the time they burst out through the roof, the interior has been completely incinerated, whereas in this case, the flames started at the top so while it looked appalling, the lower levels weren't hugely exposed to either the flames or even a huge amount of heat? The survival of the rose windows is astonishing when you see how close the fire was to them

MrMusician18

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm no builder so I could be talking rubbish, but I would have thought it would be a lot harder to rebuild a roof over a delicate and ancient interior than if you've got a straight run to ground level on both the inside and outside of the walls?

They didn't have a clear run to ground, they saved as much original structure as they could. This even meant cutting out damaged sections of stone columns and replacing them, with all the complicated propping that entailed. Further complicating matters was that some columns were originally built incorrectly with the stone bedding planes laid vertically rather than horizontally. This meant that in the intense heat of the fire the stone spalled and blew apart much more easily than it would've if it had been laid correctly.

Just on another note, I see non-experts are still touting helicopters and water bombing. While I'm no expert either, when you view the pictures of the interior, the approach of the Parisian fire brigade can be seen to have been absolutely correct. The vaulting has largely survived which protected the interior, the wooden structure of the towers was saved which prevented catastrophic collapse, even the candles in the candle holders didn't even melt.

I think the real issue is that the television cameras covering the story were so far away they couldn't see the massive effort going on to save the treasures and the firefighting going on inside the building. To the untrained eye, the two or three puny aerial hoses seen on TV made the rescue effort look completely inadequate.

Sardonicat

Fair play to the fire service.

Timberrrrrrrr

zell12 wrote: »

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

Wheres your thread on it?

gozunda

Effects wrote: »

Can't believe you dragged you anti vegan/vege crap into this thread. Give it a rest mate.

And your only contribution to this thread is a personal attack - Really?

You appear to be making a habit of this type of ****e tbh

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057973138/1/#post109953033

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057973138/1/#post109953042

MrMusician18

For those that are interested an good presentation on the technical challenges faced in restoring St. Mel's can be found here:
http://www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/communications/conference/kevin-mullery-ger-neville-2015-conference-presentation.pdf

otnomart

Ghent Cathedral to help in Notre-Dame reconstruction
"The Cathedral hasn’t got fire detectors or sprinklers, but these will be installed soon. Using water in buildings like this isn’t easy as the pressure the water creates could bring down the vaults.
Ghent Cathedral possesses an evacuation plan for people and for works of art. The works of art are listed in order with the ones that must be saved first at the top. "
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/2019/04/17/ghent-cathedral-to-help-in-notre-dame-reconstruction/

Mrcaramelchoc

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Would you say the same if the G.P.O or the 4 courts burned down tomorrow?

Is that a serious question?the four courts?i can see the billionaires lining up to. Donate money and get that rebuilt alright
The gpo maybe id ........... Actually no id be surprised and then i continue on with whatever i was doing.

Bunny12345

The amount of "Deyre buildin dese cathedrals but what about de homeless" from people (not just on here) who do f*ck all for the homeless anyway is great

gozunda

Bunny12345 wrote: »

The amount of "Deyre buildin dese cathedrals but what about de homeless" from people (not just on here) who do f*ck all for the homeless anyway is great

Agreed and here's some more recent whataboutery ...

Still waters wrote: »

Every cloud has a silver lining, it'll keep a lot of builders busy for years to come

zell12 wrote: »

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

Amazing the crap some will throw at a discussion 'cos of narrow mindness and not being able to see any bigger picture whatsoever. But hey it seems to the same stupid bull**** again and again from the few...

o1s1n

zell12 wrote: »

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

You could literally apply that to anything.

'Interesting that zell12 thought it was more important to go to work today rather than help the poor people suffering from cyclone Idai...what a monster'

gozunda

Interesting article written by Time magazine in 2017 about the state of the cathedral and the then restoration efforts which were being made.

See:

http://time.com/4876087/notre-dame-cathedral-is-crumbling/

shamrock55

is_that_so wrote: »

Don't they have a reputation for just rushing into buildings?

Exactly, and Alot more besides, if this happened in the states we'd prob be talking about firefighter casualties more so than the building

MrMusician18

I see the new York times is reporting that the alarm went off in the roof, in was investigated and dismissed as a false alarm. It went off again half an hour later and an inferno was burning.

There was also a conscious decision not to install firebreaks in the attic because of the aesthetic and they didn't introduce more comprehensive monitoring because they felt that bringing electricity into the roof would increase fire risk.

They did have fire patrols and a permanent fire officer as well as undertaking regular fire drills with the fire brigade

gozunda

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I see the new York times is reporting that the alarm went off in the roof, in was investigated and dismissed as a false alarm. It went off again half an hour later and an inferno was burning.

There was also a conscious decision not to install firebreaks in the attic because of the aesthetic and they didn't introduce more comprehensive monitoring because they felt that bringing electricity into the roof would increase fire risk.

They did have fire patrols and a permanent fire officer as well as undertaking regular fire drills with the fire brigade

A little bit more about that here

.one of the most monitored buildings in our country. In 2010 and 2011, I implemented a rigorous protection protocol for fire risk prevention. Specifically, the protection plan was based on a permanent monitoring system relying on detectors (paying attention to the possible risks of electrical short-circuits), the installation of doors and firewalls, and the presence of two firemen 24 hours a day, making three rounds a day. With the idea being that the sooner the alert was made, the sooner we could intervene. It’s unimaginable, yesterday’s fire spread in an absolutely astounding way!

Reading the rest of that article - Im not sure all of that protection plan worked as planned tbh.

See:
https://frenchly.us/was-everything-possible-done-to-avoid-the-fire-at-notre-dame-cathedral/?cx_frg_widget_id=related_bar&cx_NavSource=noncx_rec&cx_rec_mode=same_tags

Timberrrrrrrr

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

Is that a serious question?the four courts?i can see the billionaires lining up to. Donate money and get that rebuilt alright
The gpo maybe id ........... Actually no id be surprised and then i continue on with whatever i was doing.

You may not donate but there are people who have an appreciation for history and architecture who would happily donate.

ToBeFrank123

I can see fire prevention as being critical to the rebuild. Steel or even carbon fibre girders used instead of timber.

To be honest, its amazing the cathedral lasted this long without a major fire, especially the roof.

I don't think this fire was preventable and it was only a matter of time. Maybe it was a blessing in a way, they could have spent millions on the revamp and it might still burn down afterwards. The newly reconstructed cathedral will be better than before. And its made Parisians appreciate the value of it.

Effects

gozunda wrote: »

And your only contribution to this thread is a personal attack - Really?
You appear to be making a habit of this type of ****e tbh

Take it easy man, stop trying to derail the thread.

iamwhoiam

Bunny12345 wrote: »

The amount of "Deyre buildin dese cathedrals but what about de homeless" from people (not just on here) who do f*ck all for the homeless anyway is great

Actually I think people are entitled to an opinion . Not everyone will agree on many issues and we all differ on how money should be spent
I may not agree but I will give people the opportunity to have a different opinion to me .
I absolutely see the beauty and history in Notre Dame , its a stunning building that deserves a second chance . But I also see that our priority sometimes should be people and I get that opinion

fryup

i say all the poor & homeless in France are feeling rightly p!ssed off...where were all these wealthy businessmen with their donations when these the less fortunate needed it??

ToBeFrank123

Most of the homeless in Paris are either illegal refugees from Africa or else down and out alcoholics. They mostly only have themselves to blame. You could give a thousand euro to a homeless alcoholic and it would only make his situation worse. Sometimes money isn't the solution to the homeless crisis.

If I had 1000 euro to give, and gave it to a homeless alcoholic it would be gone in a week. If I spent it on the Notre Dame it would last a thousand years.

LordBasil

In a way it could be a blessing in disguise that the fire happened when and how it did;

Most of the statues that were on the roof were taken away last week for renovations and therefore undamaged.

The Rooster Statue that was on the Spire has been found in the rubble, damaged but repairable.

Most of the artwork and relics were saved

The largest stain-glassed windows look intact.

Regarding the billionaire/company donations, I for one am glad they've done this as otherwise it might have taken years (if ever) to raise that kind of money through crowd funding.

The renovated cathedral will be much more fire safe and should last another 850 years. It could have been so much worse.

Mitch Connor

LordBasil wrote: »

Regarding the billionaire/company donations, I for one am glad they've done this as otherwise it might have taken years (if ever) to raise that kind of money through crowd funding.

The vatican could, I dunno, pay for it. They have money. and art. and statues. and gold. Surely there is insurance of some description on the building as well?

ToBeFrank123

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The vatican could, I dunno, pay for it. They have money. and art. and statues. and gold. Surely there is insurance of some description on the building as well?

The French state won't allow them to pay for it. The French state owns the church. They probably will help out but technically its not their problem to fix.

LordBasil

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The vatican could, I dunno, pay for it. They have money. and art. and statues. and gold. Surely there is insurance of some description on the building as well?

The Vatican does not own Notre-Dame, it is property of the French State. The Vatican has offered assistance in providing experts to help with the restoration works.

Regarding Insurance, I think due to the fact that the cathedral is part of the national identity of France and contains so many priceless relics/art it would be impossible to have it insured.

Effects

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You could give a thousand euro to a homeless alcoholic and it would only make his situation worse. Sometimes money isn't the solution to the homeless crisis.
If I had 1000 euro to give, and gave it to a homeless alcoholic it would be gone in a week. If I spent it on the Notre Dame it would last a thousand years.

Who ever suggested giving the money as direct cash payments to homeless/needy? That's bonkers.

I see sheep

Effects wrote: »

Who ever suggested giving the money as direct cash payments to homeless/needy? That's bonkers.

UK Government - Universal Credit .. yes it is bonkers

Twenty Grand

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The vatican could, I dunno, pay for it. They have money. and art. and statues. and gold. Surely there is insurance of some description on the building as well?

Third party fire and theft.

gozunda

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Third party fire and theft.

As it is state property this means

The French state’s policy is to bear the cost of reconstruction of historical monuments such as Notre-Dame cathedral in the event of disasters.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2019/04/16/523998.htm[/quote]

The construction company also has limited liability and insurance cover were they found to be at fault