Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

RickBlaine

In fairness to Trump (and I don't say that often), I think he was genuinely trying to be helpful with that tweet. One of his many problems is that he is completely tactless. Other politicians and world leaders also might have been thinking about dropping water from the air but they know to leave such advice to the experts. Trump just literally tweets the first thing that comes into his head.

Edgware

DellyBelly wrote: »

I hope to God Leo and his mob don't contribute money for this. A shame it happened but that money could be used for the homeless crisies. Our government have their priorities all wrong and need to be kicked out...

After WW2 the Irish government made a contribution to the restoration of St. Georges R.C. cathedral in London which was damaged in the Blitz. There was also a collection in every church in Cork for it as well. This was done as a mark of gratitude for the reception and ceremony given to the remains of Terence McSwiney in 1920.
There is a little side chapel there paid for by the Irish government

Cienciano

RickBlaine wrote: »

In fairness to Trump (and I don't say that often), I think he was genuinely trying to be helpful with that tweet. One of his many problems is that he is completely tactless. Other politicians and world leaders also might have been thinking about dropping water from the air but they know to leave such advice to the experts. Trump just literally tweets the first thing that comes into his head.

Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with people calling him out for being an idiot when he tweets the first thing that comes into his head.

RickBlaine

RickBlaine wrote: »

In fairness to Trump (and I don't say that often), I think he was genuinely trying to be helpful with that tweet. One of his many problems is that he is completely tactless. Other politicians and world leaders also might have been thinking about dropping water from the air but they know to leave such advice to the experts. Trump just literally tweets the first thing that comes into his head.

I agree. It was a stupid tweet, which provoked some amusing reactions by some people on twitter , but is also being blown out of all proportion by others.

I see it as just being the reaction of a natural leader, by which I mean a person who naturally assumes some rôle of authority in a crisis, whether they are qualified or not. I'm not a Trump fan, quite the opposite, but I think this is just a personality trait of all people with leadership qualities.

Sleepy

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The closest Irish example I can think of was the deliberate burning of the Public Record Office in Dublin during the Civil War, which destroyed Irish public records which dated back to the 1500s.

The reason why a lot of Irish people don't know where their ancestors were during or before the Famine is because the fire destroyed the vast majority of censuses around that time, as well as many other incredibly valuable, irreplaceable records.

And it was all deliberate.

And aided and abetted by the Dublin Fire Brigade Service at the time. They were deliberately slow to respond and photographs of them at the scene show them pointing hoses away from the flames...

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

And aided and abetted by the Dublin Fire Brigade Service at the time. They were deliberately slow to respond and photographs of them at the scene show them pointing hoses away from the flames...

Wow, really? I didn't know about that.

As someone who only takes an amateur interest in local history, the destruction of these records in the bane of even my modest work. I can't imagine how disruptive its been to serious historical research and doctoral theses etc.

Cienciano

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I agree. It was a stupid tweet, which provoked some amusing reactions by some people on twitter , but is also being blown out of all proportion by others.

I see it as just being the reaction of a natural leader, by which I mean a person who naturally assumes some rôle of authority in a crisis, whether they are qualified or not. I'm not a Trump fan, quite the opposite, but I think this is just a personality trait of all people with leadership qualities.

I would disagree. A leader should surround himself with the best people he can. Then in a situation he knows nothing about, he should be asking the opinions of several experts in that field and form a solution based on that information. Not firing any expert who might offer a different opinion to your own and surrounding yourself with yes men and saying the first thing that comes into your head.



Anyway, enough about Trump, hopefully the money being offered to fix the cathedral will cover the repairs and more and it will be better than ever when it's finished.

Itssoeasy

I'm in no way an expert but just looking at the pictures from inside the Cathedral, it looks mostly undamaged bar what looked like the remains of the Spire near the altar. The vaulted ceiling did it's job mostly. From the pictures we saw from outside including that drone shot one poster posted last night, I honestly expected it to be a mess internally. Thankfully I was wrong.

Sleepy

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

Wow, really? I didn't know about that.

As someone who only takes an amateur interest in local history, the destruction of these records in the bane of even my modest work. I can't imagine how disruptive its been to serious historical research and doctoral theses etc.

Yes, really! I was at a lecture by the Dublin Fire Brigade historian Las Fallon after the commemoration two years back on the role played by DFB in the Burning of the Customs House. Some stations were held back by IRA units whilst those who did attend seemed to be of a Republican mindset and inclined to leave the building burn!

My father is involved with the annual commemoration of the burning https://www.customhousecommemoration.com. The group is mainly formed of amateur and professional historians and the families of those involved (My grandfather in our case).

All are welcome but as it's an apolitical commemoration that lays wreaths for the fallen on both sides of the conflict and the innocents who got caught in the crossfire they don't advertise the event heavily as they're understandably afraid of being overwhelmed by the armchair terrorists of Eirigi and the like or having Mary Lou and her morons attempt to take over the event for political purposes.

jasper100

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

are you seriously using this tragedy

Where is the tragedy? Its a shrine to child molestors, magdeline laundries and paedophiles etc. This organisation has been trying to control peoples minds for centuries and caused plenty of wars.


The global outpouring of "grief" is laughable.


There are real tragedies unfolding every day around the world but nobody wants to know.


But there is nothing like a "trendy tragedy" to get people in the western world falling over themselves in an outpouring of emotion.

Ave Sodalis

jasper100 wrote:

Where is the tragedy? Its a shrine to child molestors, magdeline laundries and paedophiles etc. This organisation has been trying to control peoples minds for centuries and caused plenty of wars.

No, it's a historic building, seeped in hundreds of years of history. It's a work of art in itself and an example of human engineering accomplishments, which has withstood the tests of time better than the majority of modern day buildings. It's perfectly okay to separate the religious aspect in this case. I am not in any way religious. However, I love cathedrals. I love their contrast being architectural loud and bold beauty, and their interior quiet and peace.

You may have a point if one of those awful American modern monstrosities burned down, but not here.

Edgware

jasper100 wrote: »

Where is the tragedy? Its a shrine to child molestors, magdeline laundries and paedophiles etc. This organisation has been trying to control peoples minds for centuries and caused plenty of wars.


The global outpouring of "grief" is laughable.


There are real tragedies unfolding every day around the world but nobody wants to know.


But there is nothing like a "trendy tragedy" to get people in the western world falling over themselves in an outpouring of emotion.

Do you still have your Diana the English Rose posters?

Cienciano

jasper100 wrote: »

Where is the tragedy? Its a shrine to child molestors, magdeline laundries and paedophiles etc. This organisation has been trying to control peoples minds for centuries and caused plenty of wars.


The global outpouring of "grief" is laughable.


There are real tragedies unfolding every day around the world but nobody wants to know.


But there is nothing like a "trendy tragedy" to get people in the western world falling over themselves in an outpouring of emotion.

I don't think anyone really gives a shít that it was a religious building, more that it's historicly and architecturally one of most famous buildings in the world, a landmark of Paris. Would you say the Colosseum in Rome is a monument to slavery and Christians being murdered? No, it's an amazing historic building.

jasper100

Edgware wrote: »

Do you still have your Diana the English Rose posters?

Made a killing flogging flowers at that one LOL. Follow the tragedies with a truck load of flowers. Guaranteed quick profit off the trendy tragedy brigade.

Nobody died this time so no market for flowers. Maybe flog some charred timbers to the "mourners" who will turn up over the summer and tell them its off the roof.

Eircom_Sucks

Am i the only one who thinks

Who gives a fcuk

jasper100

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks

Who gives a fcuk

The world will move on tomorrow. The tragedy will be short lived. The roof will be replaced.

GBX

Famous building damaged in a fire. A shame yes. But nobody died. Other more recent events in Paris would be more of a tragedy.

Grayson

Cienciano wrote: »

I don't think anyone really gives a shít that it was a religious building, more that it's historicly and architecturally one of most famous buildings in the world, a landmark of Paris. Would you say the Colosseum in Rome is a monument to slavery and Christians being murdered? No, it's an amazing historic building.

I get your point but maybe the colosseum wasn't the best example? When you go there they specifically mention the slaves and christians and gladiator battles etc.

jasper100

jasper100 wrote: »

Where is the tragedy? Its a shrine to child molestors, magdeline laundries and paedophiles etc. This organisation has been trying to control peoples minds for centuries and caused plenty of wars.


The global outpouring of "grief" is laughable.


There are real tragedies unfolding every day around the world but nobody wants to know.


But there is nothing like a "trendy tragedy" to get people in the western world falling over themselves in an outpouring of emotion.

I think this is a tragedy, Notre dame is a beautiful iconic building, steeped in history, but i do tend to agree with you.

Not in that this is a shrine to peadophiles or anything, it is a building that is knocking on 1000 years old and has seen the hopes, fears and sadness of generation after generation, but it is only a building.

You do have to question why billionaires can suddenly come up with hundreds of millions to rebuild this, yet every day millions of people do not have access to clean drinking water or decent sanitation.

CelticRambler

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm in no way an expert but just looking at the pictures from inside the Cathedral, it looks mostly undamaged bar what looked like the remains of the Spire near the altar. The vaulted ceiling did it's job mostly.

There'll be a lot of damage that these first photos don't show, and not all of it will be immediately visible either. It's being reported that the Great Organ was not destroyed, but its pipes are made from a metal that is very sensitive to heat and humidity - so just because they can be seen still standing doesn't mean they'll ever be played again.

One of the three rose windows appears to be intact; the other two are wrecked. There's a faint hope that some of the glass might have survived by falling out when the lead melted ... but also a fear that that molten lead caused damage to the paintings and tapestries on the walls below. There was a series of tapestries (huge things!) that the fire service was unable to remove, of which four in the nave where the spire came through are almost certainly destroyed; the others have suffered smoke/water damage (though probably a lot less than if the place had been water-bombed ... )

Eircom_Sucks

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks

Who gives a fcuk

Clearly not, no.

It's a pity people don't value this stuff when compared to the many random cities dotted around the world with not a bit of history and culture holding them together apart from a statue. These places are what make Europe.

Maybe we're too used to it. Even the edgiest in here would likely miss them if they all disappeared.

MarkY91

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

No, it's a historic building, seeped in hundreds of years of history. It's a work of art in itself and an example of human engineering accomplishments, which has withstood the tests of time better than the majority of modern day buildings. It's perfectly okay to separate the religious aspect in this case. I am not in any way religious. However, I love cathedrals. I love their contrast being architectural loud and bold beauty, and their interior quiet and peace.

You may have a point if one of those awful American modern monstrosities burned down, but not here.

I'm an atheist myself and I absolutely adore cathedrals. They're a real life work of art. I cannot wait to visit st.pauls cathedral this weekend in London. I even love ancient Buddhist/Hindu temples in Asia. The religious side obviously means nothing to me but they're stepper in history and cultured passed down for centuries.
It pisses me of when people say "it's just a building" or some ****e like the guy who said it represents child molesters. ****ing ignorant fools!!!

MarkY91

MarkY91 wrote: »

I'm an atheist myself and I absolutely adore cathedrals. They're a real life work of art. I cannot wait to visit st.pauls cathedral this weekend in London. I even love ancient Buddhist/Hindu temples in Asia. The religious side obviously means nothing to me but they're stepper in history and cultured passed down for centuries.
It pisses me of when people say "it's just a building" or some ****e like the guy who said it represents child molesters. ****ing ignorant fools!!!

Screw it; Shorter queues for us I suppose.

MarkY91

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Screw it; Shorter queues for us I suppose.

Did you visit Notre dame? I didn't find it all that interesting inside m but outside, it is an iconic building and the tower your was amazing.

I can't believe how sad I've felt since last night upon seeing the news. I haven't felt this way since Michael Jackson died lol.

Eircom_Sucks

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Clearly not, no.

It's a pity people don't value this stuff when compared to the many random cities dotted around the world with not a bit of history and culture holding them together apart from a statue. These places are what make Europe.

Maybe we're too used to it. Even the edgiest in here would likely miss them if they all disappeared.

Its a building

I mean ffs

Franz Von Peppercorn

Sardonicat wrote: »

Paris, in English is pronounced with an 's'.
Notre Dame in English is 'Our Lady'.
They chose to name the university Notre Dame so I can't see why they don't pronounce it correctly or change it to English.

Nodder Daym doesn't mean anything in any language.

Nodder Daym is a accent. Some parts of the US would pronounce it correctly.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Its a building

I mean ffs

It’s not any old building. If we didn’t have any heritage everywhere would be blanch.

LordBasil

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The closest Irish example I can think of was the deliberate burning of the Public Record Office in Dublin during the Civil War, which destroyed Irish public records which dated back to the 1500s.

The reason why a lot of Irish people don't know where their ancestors were during or before the Famine is because the fire destroyed the vast majority of censuses around that time, as well as many other incredibly valuable, irreplaceable records.

And it was all deliberate.

It was a travesty. Fortunately there were copies of some documents in Britain and around the world. They are working to digitally catalogue these and re-create as best as humanly possible the Public Records Office

wexandproud

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks

Who gives a fcuk

no your not , their are a few more on here with the same narrow minded thoughts .
why cant people who are not religious or not even big on historical events just see it simply as a tragic loss of a world famous building which millions enjoy for various reasons every year .
im not overly religious but a few years back i was in paris and for me the only thing worth seeing was notre dame .

10000maniacs

The tunic of St. Louis was saved. I was sweating over that one. Phew.