2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

Seadin

If one team in gaa gets luck in gaa then that's Kerry in finals. Remember 2014 when Donegal keeper kicked the ball straight to Doneghy and he buried a goal that was the difference between the two sides. In 2016 kerry got 2 poxy goals in the semi final againat Dublin that almost caught Dublin on the day. 2014 against mayo they were beaten and out of no where they get the unlikeliest of goals to come back and beat mayo. Last year against monaghan they get a goal in the last min to save the day when they were beaten. It just wouldn't happen for other teams like cork or mayo. We all know kerry are never bad but this team isnt a patch on the 00s team or the late 1970s 80s team. Mayo were a great team 2012-2017 but never got a rub of the green to get them over the line. This kerry team arent the best team we have seen but it wouldn't surprise me if they beat dublin in the final. They just get that luck.

siblers

tayto lover wrote: »

At crucial times yesterday it was the referee, Deegan, who kept Kerry in the game. I’m saying that and I have very little time for Tyrone, but it needs to be said.

He wasn't much better for Kerry, he gave much longer time time allowed for an advantage for Tyrone than he did for Kerry. Tyrone got two scores, one for a clear over carry in the second half and another when a Kerry defender was pushed in the back leading to a score

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Only seen that thread now. Thanks.

It's ridiculous that it is a sticky. People glance over them.

charlie14

Strabanimal wrote: »

The only people on here who can't take abuse are our previous rivals Donegal who can wind up as they please as shown by the person i responded to.

Why should you expect anyone to take abuse!
You are have been on here over various threads having digs and goes at Donegal supporters and their team with unsubstantiated rants.

Even in this post with your "previous rivals" remark you appear to be insinuating that Tyrone put that rivalry behind them by beating Donegal when the actually lost to them by 4 points.
I would not fully condone it, but I find it understandable that what goes around comes around in your case.

C__MC

I think on the face of it, it will be an interesting final giving the build up etc 5 in a row

What gives Kerry hope is that they are Kerry. They wont fear Dublin. They matched them in tralee in the league and beat the dubs in the 2017 league final. Small hope but hope none the less

Again it will depend on if Kerry can hold the Dublin attack. They done ok yesterday on Donnelly and harte.
It will need to be full blooded against the Dublin attack.

They also need to work hard on the kickout. In the past they have done this quite well verse the dubs.

Of course these are all small indicators of hope for the kingdom, youd give them a punters chance at best

elefant

bruschi wrote: »

Dublin are going for 5 in a row and as a neutral, I'm completely ambivalent to it all. I honestly dont really care anymore and will struggle to watch the final. I had it on last year too but only watched bits and pieces of it. Despite that, I would have watched most of the other games prior to the final.

Contrast to the hurling when Kilkenny were going for 5 in a row. I couldnt wait for the final. Would they put themselves in the history books? Or would Tipp spoil the party? It was a really exciting build up and eagerly awaited and the final didnt disappoint.

This is a more a case of where football is at in the current time. Dublin are so far ahead and dominant, it is not even entertaining anymore. They are a class side, I dont want to get into financial or advantage talk. An exceptional team of players who can turn it on when they feel like it.

But it is completely and utterly boring. The level of dominance is huge. Kerry may well spoil the party or put it up to them for a while, but I dont think they will. Fantastic if they do,but even if they get a one off result, it wont be sustainable.

I realised at the weekend I'm actually starting to feel resentful about it. It's like being cheated of years of excitement in my favourite sport.

Another year where I wouldn't be too bothered about not being able to watch the All Ireland Football final live. I would hardly have believed that possible a decade ago. All the nostalgia, the build-up, the family discussions and chat beforehand... gone to almost nothing.

munsterlegend

C__MC wrote: »

I think on the face of it, it will be an interesting final giving the build up etc 5 in a row

What gives Kerry hope is that they are Kerry. They wont fear Dublin. They matched them in tralee in the league and beat the dubs in the 2017 league final. Small hope but hope none the less

Again it will depend on if Kerry can hold the Dublin attack. They done ok yesterday on Donnelly and harte.
It will need to be full blooded against the Dublin attack.

They also need to work hard on the kickout. In the past they have done this quite well verse the dubs.

Of course these are all small indicators of hope for the kingdom, youd give them a punters chance at best

I wouldn’t pay the slightest attention to Dublin in the league. Monaghan also beat for what that’s worth.

Yes Kerry will have some belief and have younger legs to stay longer in the game than Mayo but a lot of things have to go their way to have any chance of winning. Their keeper will have to be on form as Dublin will create a lot. It becomes 50/50 if Dublin got a red card like against mayo a couple of years back or if Fenton got injured.

gaffer91

tayto lover wrote: »

At crucial times yesterday it was the referee, Deegan, who kept Kerry in the game. I’m saying that and I have very little time for Tyrone, but it needs to be said.

Nah that's incorrect. Deegan had a fine game, Kerry didn't get more soft frees than Tyrone did and he didn't keep them in touch at crucial times.

Tombo2001

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

You really can't compare the two. All counties are on their own path and own development.

The comparison here would be if Kerry really put Dublin to the pin of their collar in this year's final and then came back again for a repeat final in 2020. That's when it'd be 2010-esque and I don't think there'd be many who wouldn't be excited for that.

The obvious benchmark for this Dublin team is KK ten years ago.

A big difference is that KK had their easy championships early on in the 4-in-a-row. 2006, 2007, 2008 they had no close games and won two of those finals in the opening ten minutes.

2009 was when Tipp started to put it up to them.

In contrast, Dublin in their 4-in-a-row have had three very close finals, and two very close semi-finals. But they were in the first three years of the 4 in a row.

Its only this year and last year that the gap between Dublin vs the second best has really opened up - and to be fair, I think its early yet to write Kerry off for this year.

The other point - that great KK team was in the habit killing teams off in a ten minute blitz at the start of a half. Eddie Brennan has spoken about this a bit. The Mayo game Saturday reminded me a bit of Kilkenny against Limerick in 2007, or against Waterford the following year. Ten points up after ten minutes, and the game is over.

And having said all that - even if Kilkenny were hammering all around them - it was still fantastic to sit in Croke Park and watch Tommy Walsh or Eddie Brennan in action. And same for Fenton or Mannion on Saturday.

Enjoy it - it wont last forever.

Seadin

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The obvious benchmark for this Dublin team is KK ten years ago.

A big difference is that KK had their easy championships early on in the 4-in-a-row. 2006, 2007, 2008 they had no close games and won two of those finals in the opening ten minutes.

2009 was when Tipp started to put it up to them.

In contrast, Dublin in their 4-in-a-row have had three very close finals, and two very close semi-finals.

Its only this year and last year that the gap between Dublin vs the second best has really opened up - and to be fair, I think its early yet to write Kerry off for this year.

The other point - that great KK team was in the habit killing teams off in a ten minute blitz at the start of a half. Eddie Brennan has spoken about this a bit. The Mayo game Saturday reminded me a bit of Kilkenny against Limerick in 2007, or against Waterford the following year. Ten points up after ten minutes, and the game is over.

2006 wasnt a easy one even if kilkenny were better team that day. There was only 3 points in it at the end. 2007 and 2008 were over in the first 10 mins.

C__MC

Cody didn't freshen up that kk team like gavin has with Dublin

That's why I can see Dublin sustaining this run

Strabanimal

charlie14 wrote: »

Why should you expect anyone to take abuse!
You are have been on here over various threads having digs and goes at Donegal supporters and their team with unsubstantiated rants.

Even in this post with your "previous rivals" remark you appear to be insinuating that Tyrone put that rivalry behind them by beating Donegal when the actually lost to them by 4 points.
I would not fully condone it, but I find it understandable that what goes around comes around in your case.

Armagh are our main rivals now. Donegal are still a great squad.

On the Donegal thread the guy said he was glad us tramps are out.

Want me to post the super 8s brag post you constantly avoid or not?

Treble double

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Have to laugh at the attendance yesterday - 33000.

I have to laugh at all this doom and gloom about where football is going, yesterday's attendance was low but it was still equal to the combined attendance of both football semi finals from 1982, and Saturday nights semi was a sell out, will the hurling final even sell out.
We are witnessing the greatest team to ever play the game at present and instead of enjoying it, people in typical Irish fashion are moaning and complaining. These things are cyclical they won't dominate forever, relax and enjoy. In twenty years time people will be moaning about the state of the game and saying that, we will never see the likes of that storied Dubs team of the teens, what a team they were, they don't make them like that anymore, the game is gone to the dogs etc. I have seen it over 40 years, people saying the game is finished when before there eyes it is getting bigger, faster, better. As sure as night follows day there will be a team in the future that makes this current Dub team look quaint.

Strabanimal

charlie14 wrote: »

Which of them is already in the Super 8`s by winning the Ulster Championship.

May as well qoute it.

BarryD2

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The obvious benchmark for this Dublin team is KK ten years ago.

..........

Enjoy it - it wont last forever.

Ah come on now - there is a massive difference between the relative capacities of the two counties. In terms of hurling, you could reasonably look at Kilkenny when they were dominant and see that other hurling counties had roughly similar capacity and that it was only a matter of time.

But in football you surely can't compare Dublin with any other county, it just doesn't stack up. Never mind the AI, when did Dublin last lose a game in the Leinster champ?

ClanofLams

Treble double wrote: »

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Have to laugh at the attendance yesterday - 33000.

I have to laugh at all this doom and gloom about where football is going, yesterday's attendance was low but it was still equal to the combined attendance of both football semi finals from 1982, and Saturday nights semi was a sell out, will the hurling final even sell out.
We are witnessing the greatest team to ever play the game at present and instead of enjoying it, people in typical Irish fashion are moaning and complaining. These things are cyclical they won't dominate forever, relax and enjoy. In twenty years time people will be moaning about the state of the game and saying that, we will never see the likes of that storied Dubs team of the teens, what a team they were, they don't make them like that anymore, the game is gone to the dogs etc. I have seen it over 40 years, people saying the game is finished when before there eyes it is getting bigger, faster, better. As sure as night follows day there will be a team in the future that makes this current Dub team look quaint.

Cyclical? This isn’t one team, half the team has changed since the first final. 8 starters were 26 or under.

The population advantage was always significant but bringing in underage development squads, specialised coaching at young age, etc essentially bringing an amateur sport much closer to professional standards that advantage becomes much harder to rise above. But I do agree with you that we are seeing some of the finest footballers to ever play and their skills are great to see:

Also can we stop with the comparisons to the 80s in relation to attendance? It took twice as long to get to Dublin from most of the country and almost nobody had money. Attendances were far lower across the board - there was hurling semi final double headers played in front of less than ten thousand.

Saturday night was a sell out on the basis of past Dublin Mayo battles - 45k went to Dublin Galway last year in the semi final.

kilns

Tomw86 wrote: »

So you're suggesting the GAA give favourable treatment to specific counties other than Dublin in order to stop one of the best footballing teams ever seen, managed by one of the greatest managers ever?

That's an absolutely ridiculous comment to be making!

Why can't the counties themselves come up with tactics/players/systems to compete with the Dubs?

I think Mayo gave a template in the first half of how you have to compete against Dublin, ultimately the current Mayo team are not good enough to see it through and they did not have the composure during Dublins hot streak to stop it happening.

Of course Dublin are miles ahead in terms of ability and organisation than other teams but I would equate this to Tennis and Dublin are the Roger Federer where they are the most talented and sometimes make it look soeffortless (maybe Dublin are not as well liked as Roger ) and Mayo of the last 10 years are Andy Murray - not as talented as Roger or even his other peers but he was able to go to those darks places over the years and sacrifice so much to get up to a certain level, for which is now paying! There are so many players who were below Murray in the rankings who may have been more talented but didnt have the either the willingness or mentally toughness to go that extra mile to compete. Mayo even proved on Saturday, if you can match Dublin physically you have a chance but only over a full 70 minutes

Treble double

ClanofLams wrote: »

Treble double wrote: »

Cyclical? This isn’t one team, half the team has changed since the first final. 8 starters were 26 or under.

The population advantage was always significant but bringing in underage development squads, specialised coaching at young age, etc essentially bringing an amateur sport much closer to professional standards that advantage becomes much harder to rise above. But I do agree with you that we are seeing some of the finest footballers to ever play and their skills are great to see:

Also can we stop with the comparisons to the 80s in relation to attendance? It took twice as long to get to Dublin from most of the country and almost nobody had money. Attendances were far lower across the board - there was hurling semi final double headers played in front of less than ten thousand.

Saturday night was a sell out on the basis of past Dublin Mayo battles - 45k went to Dublin Galway last year in the semi final.

Yes cyclical, history will tell us that. They are managing it better than Kerry in the 80's but it won't last forever.
They are pushing the standard and of course it is practically professional but games are going to evolve and develop over time, they are hardly going to become more amateurish.
Look back at the golden years team, they were groundbreaking pushing the boundaries at the time but it looks so innocent now and time will make this current Dublin bunch look innocent.
I would argue that having a very dominant team is good for the game it forces the rest to raise their game. Enjoy it, that's life

Donnielighto

Prestonites wrote: »

Population is a null and void argument for success. It boils down to the coaching and you can't beat the coaching around Munster.

Cavanagh is a awful.

The_Kew_Tour

I think the most Dublin will do is 6 in a row(if they get that far). I think Kerry are not million miles off and I would not totally write them off in 3 weeks.

Dublin by 4 but think it be right up until last 10 minutes when Dublin will just pit it to bed.

ClanofLams

"Treble wrote:

Yes cyclical, history will tell us that. They are managing it better than Kerry in the 80's but it won't last forever.
They are pushing the standard and of course it is practically professional but games are going to evolve and develop over time, they are hardly going to become more amateurish.
Look back at the golden years team, they were groundbreaking pushing the boundaries at the time but it looks so innocent now and time will make this current Dublin bunch look innocent.
I would argue that having a very dominant team is good for the game it forces the rest to raise their game. Enjoy it, that's life

There’s nothing to suggest it’s cyclical. Changing half your team and winning four in a row is unprecedented. The Kerry team from ‘77 to ‘81 had one injury enforced change.

With such underage work and targeted player development happening these days, it’s highly unlikely that counties such as Mayo and Kerry with one tenth the population of Dublin are going to be able to sustain competitiveness.

Tombo2001

BarryD2 wrote: »

Ah come on now - there is a massive difference between the relative capacities of the two counties. In terms of hurling, you could reasonably look at Kilkenny when they were dominant and see that other hurling counties had roughly similar capacity and that it was only a matter of time.

But in football you surely can't compare Dublin with any other county, it just doesn't stack up. Never mind the AI, when did Dublin last lose a game in the Leinster champ?

Maybe so but thats not what history tells us.

Dublin have won 28 all irelands in football including 6 in the past 30 years.

Kilkenny have won 36 all irelands in hurling including 13 in the past 30 years.

Of course Dublin have more capacity. Thats has been the case since year dot. It was the capital city in the 1990s and 2000s, last I heard.

But I think its far too easy and lazy to write off the GAA championship; and ungracious not to recognise that this is a great group of players, that wont be repeated in Dublin, with a great manager.

For sure, they may win 7 or 8 in a row. But they wont always be dominant. And the team that beats them will be the team that believes they can be beaten.

ClanofLams

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Maybe so but thats not what history tells us.

Dublin have won 28 all irelands in football including 6 in the past 30 years.

Kilkenny have won 36 all irelands in hurling including 13 in the past 30 years.

Of course Dublin have more capacity. Thats has been the case since year dot. It was the capital city in the 1990s and 2000s, last I heard.

But I think its far too easy and lazy to write off the GAA championship; and ungracious not to recognise that this is a great group of players, that wont be repeated in Dublin, with a great manager.

For sure, they may win 7 or 8 in a row. But they wont always be dominant. And the team that beats them will be the team that believes they can be beaten.

No doubting they are a great group of players with a great manager. But the most concerning thing for the future of football is they’re not the same group as won the All Ireland four years ago - half the team is different. There’s no reason they won’t be able to change the other half over the next four years and remain hugely dominant.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Maybe so but thats not what history tells us.

Dublin have won 28 all irelands in football including 6 in the past 30 years.

Kilkenny have won 36 all irelands in hurling including 13 in the past 30 years.

Of course Dublin have more capacity. Thats has been the case since year dot. It was the capital city in the 1990s and 2000s, last I heard.

But I think its far too easy and lazy to write off the GAA championship; and ungracious not to recognise that this is a great group of players, that wont be repeated in Dublin, with a great manager.

For sure, they may win 7 or 8 in a row. But they wont always be dominant. And the team that beats them will be the team that believes they can be beaten.

Again, there are structural differences between Lilkenny and the current Dublin set-up.

awaywithyou

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The obvious benchmark for this Dublin team is KK ten years ago.

A big difference is that KK had their easy championships early on in the 4-in-a-row. 2006, 2007, 2008 they had no close games and won two of those finals in the opening ten minutes.

2009 was when Tipp started to put it up to them.

In contrast, Dublin in their 4-in-a-row have had three very close finals, and two very close semi-finals. But they were in the first three years of the 4 in a row.

Its only this year and last year that the gap between Dublin vs the second best has really opened up - and to be fair, I think its early yet to write Kerry off for this year.

The other point - that great KK team was in the habit killing teams off in a ten minute blitz at the start of a half. Eddie Brennan has spoken about this a bit. The Mayo game Saturday reminded me a bit of Kilkenny against Limerick in 2007, or against Waterford the following year. Ten points up after ten minutes, and the game is over.

And having said all that - even if Kilkenny were hammering all around them - it was still fantastic to sit in Croke Park and watch Tommy Walsh or Eddie Brennan in action. And same for Fenton or Mannion on Saturday.

Enjoy it - it wont last forever.

waterford did what they do best in finals and didnt turn up in 08... Limerick were a bit shocked to b in the final in 07.... think both teams over achieved in getting to final.... Tipp gave KK a right game of it in 09... KK got a few dodgy decisions from ref.... Tipp were convincing winners in 10....

dublin football totally diff story

kilns

ClanofLams wrote: »

No doubting they are a great group of players with a great manager. But the most concerning thing for the future of football is they’re not the same group as won the All Ireland four years ago - half the team is different. There’s no reason they won’t be able to change the other half over the next four years and remain hugely dominant.

17 players who played in the 2013 final are still in the squad, that is a sizable chunk and there is no evidence from underage teams or young players forcing their way into the team to show this dominance will continue. How many players under the age of 24 are in the Dublin squad and look like they will prop them up for the next 5 or 6 years and replace the current aging stalwarts?

elefant

kilns wrote: »

17 players who played in the 2013 final are still in the squad, that is a sizable chunk and there is no evidence from underage teams or young players forcing their way into the team to show this dominance will continue. How many players under the age of 24 are in the Dublin squad and look like they will prop them up for the next 5 or 6 years and replace the current aging stalwarts?

Lowndes, McCaffrey, Byrne, Small, Murchan, Fenton, Costello, Mannion, COC, Scully, Howard, Kilkenny will all be around for the next 5 or 6 years if everything progresses normally.

All very good players, and only 3 of whom played in 2013.

BarryD2

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Maybe so but thats not what history tells us.

Forget the AI for the moment and look at Leinster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leinster_Senior_Football_Championship

15 Leinster titles since the turn of the millennium: the last 9 on the trot with 5 in a row in preceding years. Meath are the only team to have broken the stranglehold since 2005. That is surely total dominance and that's what history tells us!

kilns

elefant wrote: »

Lowndes, McCaffrey, Byrne, Murchan, Fenton, Costello, Mannion, COC, Scully, Howard, Kilkenny will all be around for the next 5 or 6 years if everything progresses normally.

All very good players, and only 3 of whom played in 2013.

and all started on Saturday with the exception of Lowndes (who has been around the squad for a long time now), Murchan and Costello.

Considering the defenders alone Fitzsimons, McMahon, McCarthy, Cooper and OSullivan area all 29+, they dont have too many more seasons left. That is a lot of players to replace and only Murchan has really come through as if Lowndes was good enough he would have got a lot more starts than he has. So there is a big gap to fill within the next year or two with no evidence that Dublin have the players to step up

And that is not even mentioning Cluxton who I doubt will be around for too much longer

ClanofLams

kilns wrote: »

17 players who played in the 2013 final are still in the squad, that is a sizable chunk and there is no evidence from underage teams or young players forcing their way into the team to show this dominance will continue. How many players under the age of 24 are in the Dublin squad and look like they will prop them up for the next 5 or 6 years and replace the current aging stalwarts?

Eoin Murchan and Sean Bulger have both looked capable in championship. Paddy Small is highly regarded I think? Haven’t seen him myself.

Five of their six forward were 26 or under, Rock isn’t especially old at 29. Dublin just need to find one or two defenders over the next couple of years and ideally a midfielder but McCarthy will be able to partner Fenton for a few years anyway presuming McAuley isn’t first choice. There’s no reason to believe the production line won’t deliver that.