Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

Baggly

road_high wrote: »

And who do you think would have sent it? Santy Claus?

Really? Come on now, show some respect for your fellow posters.

Baggly

road_high wrote: »

So who sent the solicitors letter?

We don't know. That's the point.

road_high

Pter wrote: »

We don't know. That's the point.

We can be fairly sure it was the Hawes. Simple logic would tell you that. Unless he had a hidden other family we aren’t aware of.
Which gives you a fair insight into what you’re dealing with.

Mrsmum

Mrsmum wrote: »

Also in fairness I'm sure the guards aren't withholding info from the mother and sister just to torment them and add to their grief. There must be some legal reasons why they can't share all the information they have and that should be looked at with a view to changing the rights of bereaved family members in cases like this.

Well if that decision is overturned next week, then you're wrong and there was no "legal reason" to share the information with them- only a willingness to help.

In one paper this weekend, it was reported that the family was

“accused of tampering with a witness”- after enquiring about an eyewitness report that was brought to their attention that AH was seen driving around the village in the early morning this tragedy took place

https://www.thejournal.ie/clodagh-hawe-murder-4521704-Mar2019/

"We were the ones made to feel like criminals; the investigation officers said we were reading too much about the case in the papers and constantly asking questions."

What say you now about your precious "guards" ?

"Disgusting" ?

Mrsmum

road_high wrote: »

We can be fairly sure it was the Hawes. Simple logic would tell you that. Unless he had a hidden other family we aren’t aware of.
Which gives you a fair insight into what you’re dealing with.

Would a firm of solicitors have started the ball rolling regarding the estate ??

Baggly

road_high wrote:

We can be fairly sure it was the Hawes. Simple logic would tell you that. Unless he had a hidden other family we aren’t aware of. Which gives you a fair insight into what you’re dealing with.

Simple logic tells you that you are making inductive leaps and don't have all the facts.

And now also speculating the only other possibility is that he has a secret family.

Good man.

strandroad

road_high wrote: »

Really? I don’t think so at all- I don’t think it’s morally appropriate for them to profit from the evil deeds of their son and sending solicitors letters two weeks after the filth had wiped out Clodagh and her sons. But I’m old fashioned like that I guess!
If they had any decency they’d drop any claims to the estate and leave it to Clodaghs family. That would be the right thing to do

I would really withhold judgement on this, even when people perish things like mortgages, loans, car payments or insurance need to be paid and solicitors letters need to establish what needs to be paid when and by whom. E.g. what if you let your house insurance lapse and the empty house burns down? There was no good way to do it here I think, the other family could have washed their hands yes but then it would all be left for the two grieving ladies to sort out, pay solicitor fees etc.

strandroad

strandroad wrote: »

I would really withhold judgement on this, even when people perish things like mortgages, loans, car payments or insurance need to be paid and solicitors letters need to establish what needs to be paid when and by whom. E.g. what if you let your house insurance lapse and the empty house burns down? There was no good way to do it here I think, the other family could have washed their hands yes but then it would all be left for the two grieving ladies to sort out, pay solicitor fees etc.

There are ways to do things that need to be done. And there are ways not to do things, that need to be done.

I don't think you'll be convinced.

Mrsmum

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if that decision is overturned next week, then you're wrong and there was no "legal reason" to share the information with them- only a willingness to help.

In one paper this weekend, it was reported that the family was

“accused of tampering with a witness”- after enquiring about an eyewitness report that was brought to their attention that AH was seen driving around the village in the early morning this tragedy took place

https://www.thejournal.ie/clodagh-hawe-murder-4521704-Mar2019/

"We were the ones made to feel like criminals; the investigation officers said we were reading too much about the case in the papers and constantly asking questions."

What say you now about your precious "guards" ?

"Disgusting" ?

I have never been a big champion of the guards so they are certainly not my "precious guards". I just don't think, in this tragic case, they are playing with the family for the fun of it. I did say the family should have more rights and the law should be changed to make it so but I guess you were too outraged to see that.

road_high

Mrsmum wrote: »

Would a firm of solicitors have started the ball rolling regarding the estate ??

Yes on instruction of the next of kin of last surviving family member ie the Hawe family. As Clodagh and the kids were barely cold in their graves

brooke 2

zapitastas wrote: »

A very impressive interview by clodagh's mother and sister. Must have been an incredibly difficult thing to do and is a shame that this is the route to go down in order to get the answers they need. Heart breaking story from the sister about having ring the garda liasion officer to find out if the media were correct in what they were reporting. Surely whatever Garda was leaking details to the media could see that the family should have the right to know first.

This would have been in the Ballyjamesduff area. The gardaí there did not cover themselves in glory when dealing with Maurice McCabe. :mad:

Mrsmum

Mrsmum wrote: »

I have never been a big champion of the guards so they are certainly not my "precious guards". I just don't think, in this tragic case, they are playing with the family for the fun of it. I did say the family should have more rights and the law should be changed to make it so but I guess you were too outraged to see that.

I'm not "outraged" - the family are outraged. They are all that matters in this case. You are the person who has posted that you believe the guards would do anything that they believe is possible from a legal perspective.I think that's a very naive view, at the very least, considering their chequered history over the last few years.

I'd go as far to say that that's bullsh1t given the reports in the Sunday papers and I will be proven correct next week, when documents and information that was formally not provided to the family, will be provided- maybe not in its entirety but a lot more than was provided to date.

And accusing the family, after what they have been through of "tampering with a witness"? Yes, that's disgusting.

But feel free to place total faith in "the guards".

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not "outraged" - the family are outraged. They are all that matters in this case. You are the person who has posted that you believe the guards would do anything that they believe is possible from a legal perspective.I think that's a very naive view, at the very least, considering their chequered history over the last few years.

I'd go as far to say that that's bullsh1t given the reports in the Sunday papers and I will be proven correct next week, when documents and information that was formally not provided to the family, will be provided- maybe not in its entirety but a lot more than was provided to date.

And accusing the family, after what they have been through of "tampering with a witness"? Yes, that's disgusting.

But feel free to place total faith in "the guards".

Usually I compliment the Gardai as I do think on balance they are a good police force with integrity. But in this case I think their performance and behavior has fallen well short in terms of communication and timeliness around the time of the events.

tretorn

road_high wrote: »

Yes on instruction of the next of kin of last surviving family member ie the Hawe family. As Clodagh and the kids were barely cold in their graves

I hope the Coll family get half the proceeds of the estate, it seems very unfair that the Hawe family should be entitled to it all.

They have debts of 50,000 incurred as a result of what Hawe did.

road_high

tretorn wrote: »

I hope the Coll family get half the proceeds of the estate, it seems very unfair that the Hawe family should be entitled to it all.

They have debts of 50,000 incurred as a result of what Hawe did.

Basic right and wrong would tell you if they had any moral compass they’d drop immediately any claims to the estate and at the very least leave whatever to the Coll family. To me it’s like picking over their dead corpses adding further to the Coll family’s grief and anguish.
They should get eveything.

road_high

road_high wrote: »

Usually I compliment the Gardai as I do think on balance they are a good police force with integrity. But in this case I think their performance and behavior has fallen well short in terms of communication and timeliness around the time of the events.

I would normally. But I'm somewhat taken aback at what is alleged in this weekends newspapers- not the way to treat a grieving family at all. There's law, and then there's process- sometimes it just a matter of amending the process, not the law.

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would normally. But I'm somewhat taken aback at what is alleged in this weekends newspapers- not the way to treat a grieving family at all. There's law, and then there's process- sometimes it just a matter of amending the process, not the law.

I think the whole thing needs to be reopened and reinvestigated (if that’s the proper technical terms).

brooke 2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, but if Hawe was caught watching porn in school, and the school's authorities failed to take prompt action, that's probably negligence, but totally separate to the killing of Clodagh Hawe and her sons.

As far as we know, nobody in that school could possibly have foreseen the drastic and ridiculous actions that Alan Hawe subsequently took.

Theres no logical line of causation to draw there. The school definitely need to answer some questions about child protection, but they have nothing to answer for in terms of Hawe's own actions.

Clodagh's sister did say to Claire Byrne that never in a million years would she have thought that the Alan Hawe they knew would have committed such an evil deed. There had been nothing about him that would indicate that he could do such a desperate thing. If his own family did not suspect he could resort to such drastic action, it is reasonable to presume that his colleagues would be even less suspicious. Many teachers, or other professionals, have had problems in work which would have affected their 'good reputation', but they haven't finished up murdering their families.

brooke 2

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have to say all this thing about being in the GAA or a nobody is dying out in most towns now in y experience. Almost every town now had a soccer,rugby, boxing,athlethicx, other groups and they are all seen as important. I have also seen local GAA people being hated and people wi do anything to get them off the committee.
Now from what I remember Alan Hawe was involved in the setting up on the GAA club in this area.. So he would have being highly involved.

This was a tiny rural area. The school was near his house. His children attended there. The church was across the road. The GAA pitch was probably in the vicinity of the school. His whole world within the space of a few square miles.

freshpopcorn

brooke 2 wrote: »

This was a tiny rural area. The school was near his house. His children attended there. The church was across the road. The GAA pitch was probably in the vicinity of the school. His whole world within the space of a few square miles.

The numbers of the school are well over 100.(Not large but not tiny either). They are plenty of local clubs in the area. The oldest lad was into basketball, one of them sang and played piano. They were near enough to Ballyjamesduff as well.

brooke 2

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Surely not another cover up :eek:

In Ballyjamesduff, of all places!! :rolleyes:

brooke 2

Mrsmum wrote: »

I'm thinking when AH wrote his five page letter, why the hell didn't he spill it all out besides his cryptic carry-on. I mean, whatever he did beforehand, how could it possible be worse that brutally murdering his wife and three young boys. The school I personally have sympathy for probably because as yet we actually don't know what happened and what they did or didn't do and so I'm reserving judgement there. There may have begun a process in a perfectly correct way for all we know. However they definitely should be telling the Coll family as much as they (perhaps legally) can. But to me, after Clodagh and the boys, her mother and sister and his own family, everyone at the school, staff and pupils, must have suffered enormously too. They knew the boys as friends and pupils, probably knew Clodagh well too and naturally they laughed and chatted with AH every day completely innocent of what was to happen and they must be reeling with shock and sadness then and still. Yet they have to get on with it, teach, care for and protect the kids in what must be a grief filled atmosphere where his presence must be so easily still pictured. I don't think it's at all fair for people to be almost making the school half responsible for his act as in if they had done this etc. No one could possibly have guessed what he was capable of.

This is a very compassionate post.

As I posted earlier, Clodagh's sister said to Claire Byrne that they would have never suspected that the Alan Hawe they all knew could have done such an evil thing as murder his wife and children. Regardless of the trouble he was in at the school, how could they be expected to know he would have resorted to such drastic actions as he did? I sometimes wonder how the school staff member, whom Hawe was due to meet on the morning after the murders, must have felt when she received the awful news of the tragedy. I would have some sympathy for that person.

brooke 2

Mrsmum wrote: »

The laptop - was it his or the property of the school ? Could it be that another one of the teachers was using the laptop and up popped some kind of very dodgy porn or a child was using it and same happened. In a small school they would probably know who was looking at it but proving it would be another matter. Maybe the principal spoke to him letting him know that he was her chief suspect and that changed the atmosphere between them. Because he knows it was him and she knows it was him and the other teachers know it was him. Maybe he rang the INTO to seek advice saying he was being accused etc.

I heard on the radio last week......think it might have been on 'Drivetime'...that he thought people were staring at him all summer and were not saluting him when he passed them by. Perhaps there were some 'whispers' about him or, more likely, he imagined there were.

freshpopcorn

Mrsmum wrote: »

The laptop - was it his or the property of the school ? Could it be that another one of the teachers was using the laptop and up popped some kind of very dodgy porn or a child was using it and same happened. In a small school they would probably know who was looking at it but proving it would be another matter. Maybe the principal spoke to him letting him know that he was her chief suspect and that changed the atmosphere between them. Because he knows it was him and she knows it was him and the other teachers know it was him. Maybe he rang the INTO to seek advice saying he was being accused etc.

From what I know the laptop was property of the schools/department of education. Most teachers I know leave there school laptop in school just encase anything happens to it.
However some kids might have access to it during the day. I'd think most porn sites would be blocked on it but there's ways to get around this I know.(You'd need a bit of time for this).

brooke 2

Mrsmum wrote: »

Would a firm of solicitors have started the ball rolling regarding the estate ??

I'd say that is what happened. Clodagh's mother said that AH had sorted everything out before he killed himself. He had transferred the money from the joint account into his account, he had taken Clodagh's jewellery from her drawer and left it on the bed for her mother, he had left a note with the instruction that their car was to be left to his brother and he had left a folder with 'legal papers' on the table, which papers no doubt were eventually given to the solicitors.

brooke 2

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The numbers of the school are well over 100.(Not large but not tiny either). They are plenty of local clubs in the area. The oldest lad was into basketball, one of them sang and played piano. They were near enough to Ballyjamesduff as well.

Much larger than I had thought it to be. AH would still have been a person of some status in that area, what with living and teaching there, being the treasurer of the local GAA club, churchgoing, (friend of priest!) kids involved in various activities, etc. Any scandal in one part would quickly reverberate throughout the others.

The boys were just lovely.....I have not yet seen one photo in which they are not all smiling happily. Clodagh's mother's descriptions of the three of them to Claire Byrne were beautiful. The little fellow especially would steal your heart away.

freshpopcorn

brooke 2 wrote: »

Much larger than I had thought it to be. AH would still have been a person of some status in that area, what with living and teaching there, being the treasurer of the local GAA club, churchgoing, (friend of priest!) kids involved in various activities, etc. Any scandal in one part would quickly reverberate throughout the others.

The boys were just lovely.....I have not yet seen one photo in which they are not all smiling happily. Clodagh's mother's descriptions of the three of them to Claire Byrne were beautiful. The little fellow especially would steal your heart away.

Yes he was very predominant in the community especially with his job.
He knew it would have being the end of that and he know how people would talk if the speculation is true.
I was just trying to show that kids were involved in carious activities and not just GAA.
Whenever you wrote AH. I thought you were writing After Hours. I just figured it out there.

juno10353

road_high wrote: »

And who do you think would have sent it? Santy Claus?

The solicitors letter may have originated from AH own solicitor and outlined what was In his will

Muahahaha

Just on the solicitors letter- I think some here are reading too much into it. It would be normal in the aftermath of death for solicitors to write to each other about the estate. Granted the solicitor could have waited longer than two weeks but their letter is still nothing out of ordinary procedure. The only report I can see of it is from the Sun who lead the story with the byline "LEGAL HORROR", they are trying to sensationalise normal legal procedure for the sake of clicks. I haven't seen it reported in any of the broadsheets which speaks volumes of the Sun and their modus operandi.

The real story here though is that of the Succession Act and how under current laws the Hawe family stand to gain from his death. We had this exact scenario in the Eamon Lillis case where he stood to inherit the family home after killing his wife. Politicians at the time said they were going to change the law yet here we are again.

On the masturbating in school story the Indo are now reporting this with a degree of certainty by saying this information came from the counsellors notes:-

Since the inquest, Clodagh's family have learned from the notes of his counsellor that Alan Hawe had been viewing pornography at work on a laptop, had been having regular urges to masturbate, and was experimenting with cross-dressing.
He had stated he had been caught "red-handed" and Ms Connolly and Ms Coll want to know what that refers to.

Also:-

She reveals that computer forensics established that 97pc of the pornography he viewed was on a laptop at his work in Castlerahan school: "In all likelihood it would seem if he stated he was caught red-handed and 'it was all going to blow up', the most likely place was the school."

He committed the murders on the night before he was due to return to teaching after

Between the counsellors notes and the computer forensics it now appears that it is pretty certain the place he got caught masturbating was indeed the school.

Also note that the counsellor notes say he had been having regular urges to masturbate. From that it sounds like this masturbation episode in the school was not the only time he did it.

Dial Hard

juno10353 wrote: »

The solicitors letter may have originated from AH own solicitor and outlined what was In his will

He didn't have a will, he died intestate according to the article in yesterday's Independent.