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Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

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    #602
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,366 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    tretorn wrote: »
    This certainly doesnt sound like someone in the middle of a catastrophic breakdown.
    The school would have had CCTV for insurance purposes and presumably he had a fob to enter which would be linked to him. It would be very easy to establish if he went into the school.
    If the Gardai said something along the lines of interfering with witnesses then why werent the family told by the Gardai that someone reported that Hawe was seen in the car.
    The sooner the Garda files are handed over the better.

    I know locally a lot of the rural schools don't have CCTV.
    I don't know about this school tough


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    #603
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,366 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    tretorn wrote: »
    Even if the school doesnt have CCTV it would surely have an alarm and to access the school to turn off the alarm you would need a code. Most of these systems link the person who uses the code to a monitor so its possible to identify the person who turned the alarm off and the time the alarm was turned off.
    I very much doubt that the school wasnt alarmed in some wsy.

    Well just in my experience most schools use the same alarm code for everybody. There's generally a dilemma when the code is changed and nobody can remember it.


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    #604
    BettePorter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭BettePorter


    It could be that the school have nothing to hide because nothing happened that they could do anything about . Say for instance he wasn't caught masterbating in class / watching porn. But instead a colleague heard him in the toilet or it was noticed he never went to loo without laptop bag. Could just be an open secret in the staffroom kinda thing. I'm open to correction but I don't think u can be reprimanded for something someone thinks u did in the privacy of a toilet stall.

    So say that happened in march and he knows he was caught. So to cover himself he tells clodagh look something happened at work....I was in the loo and blah blah blah....I have an addiction ill go to counselling. But nothing official could be reported on cause nothing officially happened.


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    #605
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Presume ultimately it was Hawes family that would have initiated the legal proceedings surrounding the will etc;
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/3802367/clodagh-hawe-family-legal-letter-weeks-after-funeral/

    If so they are scum and clearly he didn’t lick it off the floor.


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    #606
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    BettePorter wrote: »
    It could be that the school have nothing to hide because nothing happened that they could do anything about . Say for instance he wasn't caught masterbating in class / watching porn. But instead a colleague heard him in the toilet or it was noticed he never went to loo without laptop bag. Could just be an open secret in the staffroom kinda thing. I'm open to correction but I don't think u can be reprimanded for something someone thinks u did in the privacy of a toilet stall.

    So say that happened in march and he knows he was caught. So to cover himself he tells clodagh look something happened at work....I was in the loo and blah blah blah....I have an addiction ill go to counselling. But nothing official could be reported on cause nothing officially happened.

    It was reported that as the only male teacher he had a toilet just for his own use.

    I really doubt he was watching pornography in the toilet, he was a teacher so couldnt have been spending much time out of the classroom. If he was watching porn in a toilet that only he used its unlikely he would have been caught.

    Clodagh, as a teacher herself would have copped immediately how serious a matter it was, he definitely wouldnt have told her he was caught watching porn in school. Dont forget he was living with a six year and behaviour like this would or should have brought Tusla to the family home. It would if he was a plumber.


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    #607
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,366 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    tretorn wrote: »
    It was reported that as the only male teacher he had a toilet just for his own use.

    I really doubt he was watching pornography in the toilet, he was a teacher so couldnt have been spending much time out of the classroom. If he was watching porn in a toilet that only he used its unlikely he would have been caught.

    Clodagh, as a teacher herself would have copped immediately how serious a matter it was, he definitely wouldnt have told her he was caught watching porn in school. Dont forget he was living with a six year and behaviour like this would or should have brought Tusla to the family home. It would if he was a plumber.

    You've to just to remember lots of teachers arrive to school early and don't leave until later in the day. So, they'd be plenty of time he could spend in the toilet.


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    #608
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I think the more is revealed about this case the more mistakes have been highlighted in the handling of the school porn incident/s right through to the murder and aftermath. The various agencies and Gardai have handled the whole thing terribly with skant regard for the proper procedures.
    I think a lot of exemptions and assumptions were made because of his perceived positions. If he had been of a different profession it’d have been handled differently. I think masterbating in a public environment with many kids is definitely on the extreme edge of what is appropriate and warranted immediate sanction. I have a sneaky suspicion that meddling priest had something to do with the leniency also


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    #609
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    He wouldnt have been caught if that was the case. The rest of the staff were female so wouldnt have been using the male toilet.

    He was caught when someone walked in on him so it was most likely in a public area.

    I think his boys went to the school so most likely they would have travelled with him and left with him, he wouldnt have had much time in the school on his own, he would have had his children with him until their teacher arrived and after their teacher dismissed the class. His youngest was only six.


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    #610
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    As vice principal would he have had a small office of his own?


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    #611
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    The laptop - was it his or the property of the school ? Could it be that another one of the teachers was using the laptop and up popped some kind of very dodgy porn or a child was using it and same happened. In a small school they would probably know who was looking at it but proving it would be another matter. Maybe the principal spoke to him letting him know that he was her chief suspect and that changed the atmosphere between them. Because he knows it was him and she knows it was him and the other teachers know it was him. Maybe he rang the INTO to seek advice saying he was being accused etc.


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    #612
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,366 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    road_high wrote: »
    As vice principal would he have had a small office of his own?

    Not in all cases depending in the size of the school.


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    #613
    BettePorter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭BettePorter


    tretorn wrote: »
    BettePorter wrote: »
    It could be that the school have nothing to hide because nothing happened that they could do anything about . Say for instance he wasn't caught masterbating in class / watching porn. But instead a colleague heard him in the toilet or it was noticed he never went to loo without laptop bag. Could just be an open secret in the staffroom kinda thing. I'm open to correction but I don't think u can be reprimanded for something someone thinks u did in the privacy of a toilet stall.

    So say that happened in march and he knows he was caught. So to cover himself he tells clodagh look something happened at work....I was in the loo and blah blah blah....I have an addiction ill go to counselling. But nothing official could be reported on cause nothing officially happened.

    It was reported that as the only male teacher he had a toilet just for his own use.

    I really doubt he was watching pornography in the toilet, he was a teacher so couldnt have been spending much time out of the classroom. If he was watching porn in a toilet that only he used its unlikely he would have been caught.

    Clodagh, as a teacher herself would have copped immediately how serious a matter it was, he definitely wouldnt have told her he was caught watching porn in school. Dont forget he was living with a six year and behaviour like this would or should have brought Tusla to the family home. It would if he was a plumber.

    The fact he had his own toilet is why I suggested he was doing it in toilet. The maintenance man /gardener could have walked in on him. The other teachers could have just suspected given his habits that he was at it in toilet. My point was there's not a hope if he was caught exposing himself in an open classroom area that he wouldn't be reported /dismissed pending investigation. You'd be dismissed from an office /supermarket/library. A school ? Instantly !


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    #614
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    That’s very true- we only know he was “caught” but no circumstances of how. Could have happened several ways but they did mention the masterbation incident?


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    #615
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,366 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    tretorn wrote: »
    He wouldnt have been caught if that was the case. The rest of the staff were female so wouldnt have been using the male toilet.

    He was caught when someone walked in on him so it was most likely in a public area.

    I think his boys went to the school so most likely they would have travelled with him and left with him, he wouldnt have had much time in the school on his own, he would have had his children with him until their teacher arrived and after their teacher dismissed the class. His youngest was only six.

    I know kids who's parents are teachers. They generally have somebody else picking them up in the evening. Especially If the parent was management level.
    It may have also being on Saturday/Sunday.
    It could have being in any room in the school.
    He may have simply forgot to lock the door of what ever room he was in.


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    #616
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    road_high wrote: »
    As vice principal would he have had a small office of his own?

    My children go to a big school in Dublin and only the Principal has an office. The vice principal is usually a working teacher so has their classroom.


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    #617
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,124 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Also possible that Clodagh picked up the younger boys on her way home .


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    #618
    deisemum
    Registered Users Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭deisemum


    road_high wrote: »
    Presume ultimately it was Hawes family that would have initiated the legal proceedings surrounding the will etc;
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/3802367/clodagh-hawe-family-legal-letter-weeks-after-funeral/

    If so they are scum and clearly he didn’t lick it off the floor.

    If they did or if they accepted blood money as a result of the actions of their son then they should hang their heads in shame.


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    #619
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    Oddballs the lot of them


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    #620
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What we haven’t heard anything about the nature or circumstance of the porn. Was it pedo porn? Did perhaps one of the school children see what was on his computer or him in the act of masturbating? And if so did child/children report it to a parent or adult? It might have said something like (in response to typical “do you like your teacher type question,“Mr Hawe is a funny kind of teacher, he had his hands moving down his trousers as he stared at his computer”; and it was reported to principal who in turn rang Alan and said “After the holidays I need to ask you about something that I was alerted to.” But then she would surely have been required to inform the guards first of any suspicions. Or was he caught by another teacher who had come in early or somebody else with business to have come on the premises, maybe unexpectedly? Was he caught in there over the holidays in the middle of pleasuring himself with porn? By another teacher bringing in teaching materials she had aquired, to store in the school, or a workman doing some maintenance over the holidays. And then Principal heard, and as it wasn’t involving children at all, albeit a place where children attend during term, she phoned him and said she would need to discuss something she heard about before he would resume taking class st beginning of term. Maybe he already knew he had been dismissed or suspended and did the dastardly act before he had to face his wife’s response. “How was the first day back, dear?” “Well, I’m actually suspended because you know that porn thing I was telling you about, it was in the school.”


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    #621
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Whatever sort of porn it was the matter should have been reported to Tusla because Hawes youngest was six years old.

    Thats the details that the public need to know.

    Anything to do with child welfare is mandatory reporting and if your father is masturbating to porn outside the walls of his bedroom then the authorities need to intervene.

    If Tusla had been informed its possible the children and their mother might be alive today.


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    #622
    BettePorter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭BettePorter


    tretorn wrote: »
    Whatever sort of porn it was the matter should have been reported to Tusla because Hawes youngest was six years old.

    Thats the details that the public need to know.

    Anything to do with child welfare is mandatory and if your father is masturbating to porn outside the walls of his bedroom then the authorities need to intervene.

    If Tusla had been informed its possible the children and their mother might be alive today.

    This is the thing....do we know if tusla or guards are investigating ....and do we have a right to? Like have they said anything either way ?


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    #623
    Lotus Flower
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    tretorn wrote: »

    If Tusla had been informed its possible the children and their mother might be alive today.

    The person responsible for this is the monster that killed his family in a brutal, violent and calculated manner- not the school, the principal, the GAA or anyone else.


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    #624
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    No one is saying the school, the principal or the GAA or the priest or anyone else is responsible.

    If a schoolteacher is caught masturbating to porn and he has a six year old son then whats paramount in this scenario is the welfare of that child. Thats why it is mandatory to report any concerns to Tusla and let them investigate the family.

    We need to know what happened in that school and the precise steps that were taken if only to make sure nothing like this happens again.

    If Tusla had been alerted Hawe may have been requested to leave the family home while investigations were going on, this meant he wouldnt have been in that house with his wife and children and it might have given his wife clear headspace to make decisions.


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    #625
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    tretorn wrote: »
    If Tusla had been alerted Hawe may have been requested to leave the family home while investigations were going on, this meant he wouldnt have been in that house with his wife and children and it might have given his wife clear headspace to make decisions.

    I don't think Tusla would have that kind of power on foot of a report about a person watching porn.

    It's all truly an exceptionally horrible case.


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    #626
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    tretorn wrote: »
    No one is saying the school, the principal or the GAA or the priest or anyone else is responsible.

    If a schoolteacher is caught masturbating to porn and he has a six year old son then whats paramount in this scenario is the welfare of that child. Thats why it is mandatory to report any concerns to Tusla and let them investigate the family.

    We need to know what happened in that school and the precise steps that were taken if only to make sure nothing like this happens again.

    If Tusla had been alerted Hawe may have been requested to leave the family home while investigations were going on, this meant he wouldnt have been in that house with his wife and children and it might have given his wife clear headspace to make decisions.

    Watching porn wouldn't be a child protection issue unless it's particularly violent or involves minors.


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    #627
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Tusla have a lot of power and they would have the experience to interview Hawe better than a counsellor who probably though he was dealing with normal run of the mill porn addiction. Red flags would have been raised the minute Tusla were notified and they definitely would have told Clodagh everything. Jesus, she had a right to know what was going on.

    A pals friend fell in the garden in front of me and next day she had a bruise on her cheek. The playschool staff asked questions and werent satisfied with answers. They rang Tusla and Tusla staff were on the familys doorstep the following day asking questions and demanding to see the child.

    People working with children have a mandatory duty to report anything that might affect a childs safety, there are no ifs and buts about it.

    Watching porn and masturbating in a primary school where you are on your own with children is definitely a child protection issue both for the children in the school and Hawes primary aged schoolchildren. I cant understand how anyone would quibble with this. Clodagh should have been advised the very day Hawe was caught what had happened.


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    #628
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What we haven’t heard anything about the nature or circumstance of the porn. Was it pedo porn?


    That's beside the point because watching adult porn on a computer on the school premises would have been enough to sack him because, at the very least, it was against the school's ethos.


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    #629
    Lotus Flower
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    tretorn wrote: »
    No one is saying the school, the principal or the GAA or the priest or anyone else is responsible.

    If a schoolteacher is caught masturbating to porn and he has a six year old son then whats paramount in this scenario is the welfare of that child. Thats why it is mandatory to report any concerns to Tusla and let them investigate the family.

    We need to know what happened in that school and the precise steps that were taken if only to make sure nothing like this happens again.

    If Tusla had been alerted Hawe may have been requested to leave the family home while investigations were going on, this meant he wouldnt have been in that house with his wife and children and it might have given his wife clear headspace to make decisions.

    Yes, some people are saying it's down to those things, just read back on the thread. You have no way of knowing that things could be different. Suppose he had been reported to Tusla and Clodagh was informed, he still could have gone ahead with his atrocious crime. The fact is, this was a cold and calculated crime, carried out by a monster. There's nothing anyone could have done to foresee this or stop him if he was able to carry out such an atrocity


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    #630
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,366 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    tretorn wrote: »
    Tusla have a lot of power and they would have the experience to interview Hawe better than a counsellor who probably though he was dealing with normal run of the mill porn addiction. Red flags would have been raised the minute Tusla were notified and they definitely would have told Clodagh everything. Jesus, she had a right to know what was going on.

    A pals friend fell in the garden in front of me and next day she had a bruise on her cheek. The playschool staff asked questions and werent satisfied with answers. They rang Tusla and Tusla staff were on the familys doorstep the following day asking questions and demanding to see the child.

    People working with children have a mandatory duty to report anything that might affect a childs safety, there are no ifs and buts about it.

    Watching porn and masturbating in a primary school where you are on your own with children is definitely a child protection issue both for the children in the school and Hawes primary aged schoolchildren. I cant understand how anyone would quibble with this. Clodagh should have been advised the very day Hawe was caught what had happened.

    Wouldn't the counsellor he was attending also have to report it if he disclosed anything to them?

    I'm really lost regarding this issue at the school. If somebody saw him and they didn't report it they'd have known there job would be at risk if they didn't. You'd really wonder why somebody would cover up for him.


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    #631
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    It hasnt actually been established that he watched the porn in school.

    The school havent made any official statement though which is strange considering that the family seem to believe Hawe was masturbating on the school premises. If this isnt the case then surely the school Board of Management would deny it happened. Its odd that they havent made any statement, even the INTO issued a statement basically saying they wouldnt breach Hawes or anyone elses confidentiality.


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