Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

freshpopcorn · 02-03-2019 8:46pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thanks. Just hoping that there was no fear involved in the atrocity, meaning it was unexpected and hopefully quick, but it must have been horrific. I did not watch the RTE prog. I just could not do it. That woman and those lovely kids. Cannot get it out of my mind.

Imagine how awful it is for the relatives? How could you recover from that. It is not about me. I am just posting some things....

Yes it must be terrible for the relatives.
In some of my posts I may have sounded like I was defending him. I wasn't.
I was just trying to answer some of your questions/comments.

Spanish Eyes · 02-03-2019 9:47pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes it must be terrible for the relatives.
In some of my posts I may have sounded like I was defending him. I wasn't.
I was just trying to answer some of your questions/comments.

I know, and appreciate it.

It is still beyond belief though. There possibly will be more to come out in time.

Stacksofwacks · 02-03-2019 10:24pm

What gets lost in this is the collective narcissism that exists in Irish society and in particular rural communities regarding these so called pillars of society. I've seen it in my own life when you are often told by even close family members how you should aspire to be like Mr x or Miss Y. Some of them could be horrendous people but are looked up to regardless because of their status or their connections etc. That Hawe was about to lose this status hence he knew the shame that would come with this downfall. Of course he is 100% responsible for his actions but I think we need to change out thinking towards certain kinds of people and stop putting them up on pedastals etc.. If he had been a plumber at the school would this matter have been handled differently?

freshpopcorn · 02-03-2019 10:33pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

What gets lost in this is the collective narcissism that exists in Irish society and in particular rural communities regarding these so called pillars of society. I've seen it in my own life when you are often told by even close family members how you should aspire to be like Mr x or Miss Y. Some of them could be horrendous people but are looked up to regardless because of their status or their connections etc. That Hawe was about to lose this status hence he knew the shame that would come with this downfall. Of course he is 100% responsible for his actions but I think we need to change out thinking towards certain kinds of people and stop putting them up on pedastals etc.. If he had been a plumber at the school would this matter have been handled differently?

I think no matter where you live people look up to certain people. It may be a Doctor, principal, Guard, successful business owner, etc. Especially if you like them. I know people in the above professions and they are looked up to but equally some aren't looked up to if they do bad things or threat people bad.
If people knew the plumber and he was a nice guy and involved in the area some would look up to him. If was just the plumber who didn't people probably wouldn't or have much contact/known him.. It would be fairly similar with other professions.

tretorn · 02-03-2019 11:22pm

The GAA is the be all and the end all in these small towns. You are either in the GAA or you are a nobody, there is precious little else going on so you have the GAA, the local priest and then the acting vice principal who is the only male in the school and very friendly with the local priest and also has got himself into an important role in the GAA club, that of club treasurer, this is an officer role on any committee and the GAA being an important organisation this would give this person kudos in the town.

He would have been full of his own importance and he had full control at home, his in laws never got a chance to see their mother and sister on their own, himself would sit there thinking everyone wanted to listen to him wen the reality was the relatives would be hoping his car wasnt there when they called.

freshpopcorn · 02-03-2019 11:32pm

tretorn wrote: »

The GAA is the be all and the end all in these small towns. You are either in the GAA or you are a nobody, there is precious little else going on so you have the GAA, the local priest and then the acting vice principal who is the only male in the school and very friendly with the local priest and also has got himself into an important role in the GAA club, that of club treasurer, this is an officer role on any committee and the GAA being an important organisation this would give this person kudos in the town.

He would have been full of his own importance and he had full control at home, his in laws never got a chance to see their mother and sister on their own, himself would sit there thinking everyone wanted to listen to him wen the reality was the relatives would be hoping his car wasnt there when they called.

I have to say all this thing about being in the GAA or a nobody is dying out in most towns now in y experience. Almost every town now had a soccer,rugby, boxing,athlethicx, other groups and they are all seen as important. I have also seen local GAA people being hated and people wi do anything to get them off the committee.
Now from what I remember Alan Hawe was involved in the setting up on the GAA club in this area.. So he would have being highly involved.

02-03-2019 11:34pm

tretorn wrote: »

The GAA is the be all and the end all in these small towns. You are either in the GAA or you are a nobody

That's not quite fair. I'm not familiar with Castlerahan or the surrounding area, but I come from a small village where the GAA is a major talking point, and I don't think anyone who doesn't participate is excluded.

It's probably more of an issue for school students. I wasn't a great hurler, and definitely felt a bit sore about that during my teens. But I'm surprised to hear anyone suggest this is an issue among adults in rural Ireland. That certainly isn't my experience.

Spanish Eyes · 02-03-2019 11:43pm

I think the GAA has taken over from the Catholic Church these days.

Anyway, the GAA is great don't get me wrong, but I often wonder where the next scandal will be.

Why do people say this about the deceased's participation in the GAA anyway? So feckin what, it is not compulsory.

But maybe if you don't participate or volunteer, or whatever, you are excluded. I dunno, but I reckon so.

freshpopcorn · 02-03-2019 11:53pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the GAA has taken over from the Catholic Church these days.

Anyway, the GAA is great don't get me wrong, but I often wonder where the next scandal will be.

Why do people say this about the deceased's participation in the GAA anyway? So feckin what, it is not compulsory.

But maybe if you don't participate or volunteer, or whatever, you are excluded. I dunno, but I reckon so.

I have never felt excluded in rural Ireland for not being part of the GAA.
Are you talking in general or in Alan Hawes case. If somebody is involved in a club they generally talk about it when your dead.
For example if he set up the local drama society they'd be talking about that.
Criminal examples would be Joe o Reilly was big into the GYM.
Graham Dwyer was into his toy planes and his cars.

Stacksofwacks · 02-03-2019 11:58pm

I live in a rural community and Im not involved in the GAA. To be honest I feel a bit of resentment from the local GAA heads that I never "togged out" little snide remarks and been excluded from certain things parties stag do's etc.. Maybe they just dont like me, I was a pretty good hurler when I was younger but never continued it on and i sense a bit of bitterness..But anyway it dosent really bother me but this kind of stuff does exist

Marengo · 03-03-2019 12:27am

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

I live in a rural community and Im not involved in the GAA. To be honest I feel a bit of resentment from the local GAA heads that I never "togged out" little snide remarks and been excluded from certain things parties stag do's etc.. Maybe they just dont like me, I was a pretty good hurler when I was younger but never continued it on and i sense a bit of bitterness..But anyway it dosent really bother me but this kind of stuff does exist

GAA can be very cliquey. If you're not part of the core clique. If your father didn't play. If you're relatively new to an area. A lot of bull about the community etc, it can be very exclusive. If your as good a player as another fella but he's in the group he'll get pushed ahead of you, given the benefit of a bad game while you'll be dropped. An inflated opinion of their 'hardness' too. When all a lot rely on is the safety of the clique and numbers. On their own they can be very cowardly.

Grudges with neighbouring clubs going back generations that you don't get in soccer, rugby.

Spanish Eyes · 03-03-2019 12:33am

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have never felt excluded in rural Ireland for not being part of the GAA.
Are you talking in general or in Alan Hawes case. If somebody is involved in a club they generally talk about it when your dead.
For example if he set up the local drama society they'd be talking about that.
Criminal examples would be Joe o Reilly was big into the GYM.
Graham Dwyer was into his toy planes and his cars.

I think the issue is that no matter what scandal, murder, death, suicide, road accident whatever, it seems to me that the GAA is always mentioned in National media. That is because it is totally pervasive in the community, so much more than a solitary activity like the gym.

I really don't think the same applies to the gym or canoeing, or hill walking or whatever.

RIP to all.

Marengo · 03-03-2019 12:38am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the issue is that no matter what scandal, murder, death, suicide, road accident whatever, it seems to me that the GAA is always mentioned in National media. That is because it is totally pervasive in the community, so much more than a solitary activity like the gym.

I really don't think the same applies to the gym or canoeing, or hill walking or whatever.

RIP to all.

The GAA is a national association. The gym etc aren't.

In my previous post i've spoken about the petty side of the GAA, however there is a corollary to this, keeping many young men involved in what is generally a healthy outlet etc. And there are differences between clubs etc.

But when someone commits a murder or mass murders his hobbies shouldn't be a reference point.

Amen. RIP all.

Spanish Eyes · 03-03-2019 12:38am

Marengo wrote: »

GAA can be very cliquey. If you're not part of the core clique. If your father didn't play. If you're relatively new to an area. A lot of bull about the community etc, it can be very exclusive. If your as good a player as another fella but he's in the group he'll get pushed ahead of you, given the benefit of a bad game while you'll be dropped. An inflated opinion of their 'hardness' too. When all a lot rely on is the safety of the clique and numbers. On their own they can be very cowardly.

Grudges with neighbouring clubs going back generations that you don't get in soccer, rugby.

Totally get what you are saying. And it can be so true also.

It is a clique for sure.

LETHAL LADY · 03-03-2019 12:39am

I think there's some merit in saying that in a rural community everyone knows everyone else's business, but to be painting people in rural areas as god-fearing, GAA worshipping and all-round subservient eejits to any person with a profession or title is utter hogwash. This may have been true in 50s Ireland but not anymore.
I've lived in rural areas all my life and have never came across the type of adulation being suggested.
Alan Hawe was intelligent enough to get a qualification in teaching and from that a career working in his chosen area. I suspect it was his own sense of grandiosity that may have led to his horrific actions, not the community he lived in.

Spanish Eyes · 03-03-2019 12:40am

Marengo wrote: »

The GAA is a national association. The gym etc aren't.

In my previous post i've spoken about the petty side of the GAA, however there is a corollary to this, keeping many young men involved in what is generally a healthy outlet etc. And there are differences between clubs etc.

But when someone commits a murder or mass murders his hobbies shouldn't be a reference point.

Amen. RIP all.

I think I may have cross posted with you. But my feeling is that the GAA is the god of many now.

I wonder how saintly they are in comparison with the Scouts.

Marengo · 03-03-2019 12:42am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think I may have cross posted with you. But my feeling is that the GAA is the god of many now.

I wonder how saintly they are in comparison with the Scouts.

The Galway case about the verbal abuse of too young players (14 or so) wasn't pleasant reading last year.

All sporting groups, professions, trades are capable of abuse. Mix of good and bad everywhere.

freshpopcorn · 03-03-2019 12:47am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the issue is that no matter what scandal, murder, death, suicide, road accident whatever, it seems to me that the GAA is always mentioned in National media. That is because it is totally pervasive in the community, so much more than a solitary activity like the gym.

I really don't think the same applies to the gym or canoeing, or hill walking or whatever.

RIP to all.

I don't know if we have crossed wires or what. However in my experience if a person is a member of a local club and they die. They generally discus it or mention it.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think I may have cross posted with you. But my feeling is that the GAA is the god of many now.

I wonder how saintly they are in comparison with the Scouts.

Nobody is denying there isn't problems within the GAA.
They have being people convicted of abuse within clubs. Similarly they've being people convicted with who were coaches in soccer, rugby, swimming clubs, etc.

Spanish Eyes · 03-03-2019 12:54am

Marengo wrote: »

The Galway case about the verbal abuse of too young players (14 or so) wasn't pleasant reading last year.

All sporting groups, professions, trades are capable of abuse. Mix of good and bad everywhere.

Indeed, but it should never happen either.

The poor kids who play their fekkin hearts out for GAA and for what? I often wonder qui bono? But anyway.

The GAA is a huge organisation. Bigger than any other voluntary sport in this country. And with a huge amount of Government support also, still we are expected to contribute. I Don't get that. But hey.

Comment is free!

Spanish Eyes · 03-03-2019 1:06am

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I think there's some merit in saying that in a rural community everyone knows everyone else's business, but to be painting people in rural areas as god-fearing, GAA worshipping and all-round subservient eejits to any person with a profession or title is utter hogwash. This may have been true in 50s Ireland but not anymore.
I've lived in rural areas all my life and have never came across the type of adulation being suggested.
Alan Hawe was intelligent enough to get a qualification in teaching and from that a career working in his chosen area. I suspect it was his own sense of grandiosity that may have led to his horrific actions, not the community he lived in.

Why is it then that GAA is mentioned a lot in tragic rural deaths. Would the same happen in cities like Cork, Limerick or Dublin for example?

Hogwash indeed.

Stacksofwacks · 03-03-2019 1:13am

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I think there's some merit in saying that in a rural community everyone knows everyone else's business, but to be painting people in rural areas as god-fearing, GAA worshipping and all-round subservient eejits to any person with a profession or title is utter hogwash. This may have been true in 50s Ireland but not anymore.
I've lived in rural areas all my life and have never came across the type of adulation being suggested.
Alan Hawe was intelligent enough to get a qualification in teaching and from that a career working in his chosen area. I suspect it was his own sense of grandiosity that may have led to his horrific actions, not the community he lived in.

No one is suggesting that anyone but Hawe is responsible for what happened but there is a toxic undercurrent in Irish life that is rarely addressed through the media etc. Obviously this is a very extreme case but you dont need to look much further than the recent abuse scandals to find that there is issues with how we view authority figures and how wrongdoing is treated in comparison to other individuals

03-03-2019 1:21am

theres a few go-to voices in a story

witnesses, family, neighbours, work/school

in a rural case then yeah the gaa club, or the priest, or worst of all the county councillor will be pressed for a few words.

its usually desperate stuff, and especially so in a tragic instance.

as usual, the media drive it and tell you that you wanted it

LETHAL LADY · 03-03-2019 1:33am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why is it then that GAA is mentioned a lot in tragic rural deaths. Would the same happen in cities like Cork, Limerick or Dublin for example?

Hogwash indeed.

Sorry Spanish Eyes, but I'm still failing to see the correlation between the GAA and familicide.

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

No one is suggesting that anyone but Hawe is responsible for what happened but there is a toxic undercurrent in Irish life that is rarely addressed through the media etc. Obviously this is a very extreme case but you dont need to look much further than the recent abuse scandals to find that there is issues with how we view authority figures and how wrongdoing is treated in comparison to other individuals

I'm not preaching the merits of any organisation. Are we not discussing an individual's actions?

Stacksofwacks · 03-03-2019 1:42am

Ok so lets say Hawe was a plumber who came into the school to do a job, when no one was looking he went on the school PC and went looking up porn and masturbating and got caught. Then I'd assume the guards would have been called, the word would have gone round the parish pretty quickly what this guy was up to and his wife would have found out what he was up to. But as he the school vice principal the matter was handled more sensitively, maybe even kept quiet for a while, before being brought to light. He may have even had a full summer to plan what he was going to do..Im surmising without the facts of course but do you see the problem here?

Spanish Eyes · 03-03-2019 1:45am

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Ok so lets say Hawe was a plumber who came into the school to do a job, when no one was looking he went on the school PC and went looking up porn and masturbating and got caught. Then I'd assume the guards would have been called, the word would have gone round the parish pretty quickly what this guy was up to and his wife would have found out what he was up to. But as he the school vice principal the matter was handled more sensitively, maybe even kept quiet for a while, before being brought to light. He may have even had a full summer to plan what he was going to do..Im surmising without the facts of course but do you see the problem here?

The pillar of society, along with the GAA connection.

freshpopcorn · 03-03-2019 1:53am

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Ok so lets say Hawe was a plumber who came into the school to do a job, when no one was looking he went on the school PC and went looking up porn and masturbating and got caught. Then I'd assume the guards would have been called, the word would have gone round the parish pretty quickly what this guy was up to and his wife would have found out what he was up to. But as he the school vice principal the matter was handled more sensitively, maybe even kept quiet for a while, before being brought to light. He may have even had a full summer to plan what he was going to do..Im surmising without the facts of course but do you see the problem here?

From what I know.
The problem is we don't really know what happened in the school.
We don't know if it was reported?
I find it strange that any SNA/Teacher would sit on this for any amount of time because they know there career would be over if they did.
I also wonder was he suspended. If he was another member of staff would have being acting as vice principal during the Summer probably and this would have being public knowledge in the area. The school would also have being looking for temporary cover in the weeks before hand to cover his classes.

Stacksofwacks · 03-03-2019 1:59am

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Sorry Spanish Eyes, but I'm still failing to see the correlation between the GAA and familicide.

I'm not preaching the merits of any organisation. Are we not discussing an individual's actions?

I just said in two previous posts that Hawe is 100% responsible for what happened sometimes you need to look further than the individual's action tho and take into account the environment they existed in

Spanish Eyes · 03-03-2019 2:05am

There is a lot we don't know about anonymous posters on the internet,

But sadly the bereaved family family of Clodagh and her children do not know anything either it seems.

Something smells here, and anyone with half a brain can see that also.

LETHAL LADY · 03-03-2019 2:07am

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Ok so lets say Hawe was a plumber who came into the school to do a job, when no one was looking he went on the school PC and went looking up porn and masturbating and got caught. Then I'd assume the guards would have been called, the word would have gone round the parish pretty quickly what this guy was up to and his wife would have found out what he was up to. But as he the school vice principal the matter was handled more sensitively, maybe even kept quiet for a while, before being brought to light. He may have even had a full summer to plan what he was going to do..Im surmising without the facts of course but do you see the problem here?

Ah now you're shifting goalposts!

Stacksofwacks · 03-03-2019 2:23am

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Ah now you're shifting goalposts!

I probably am Lethal but Im doing so to make a point rather than be taken literally

Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

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