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Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

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    #632
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Lotus Flower wrote: »
    Yes, some people are saying it's down to those things, just read back on the thread. You have no way of knowing that things could be different. Suppose he had been reported to Tulsa and Clodagh was informed, he still could have gone ahead with his atrocious crime. The fact is, this was a cold and calculated crime, carried out by a monster. There's nothing anyone could have done to foresee this or stop him if he was able to carry out such an atrocity

    You dont know that, you dont know how Clodagh would have reacted and she may have watched him very closely and may have even asked him to leave the family home.

    She went about her summer utterly oblivious as to what happened and no one had the right to keep this information from her. No one has the right to keep it from her mother or sister now either, what purpose does it serve only to protect Hawe. That doesnt matter anymore now, what matters is helping her family and they want this information.


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    #633
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    tretorn wrote: »
    If Tusla had been alerted Hawe may have been requested to leave the family home while investigations were going on,

    This absolutely would not have happened.


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    #634
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    You dont know that, no one knows what would have happened.

    No one knew what was going on in Hawes mind but an experienced mental health professional might have come to the conclusion that he was a danger to himself and others, he in fact probably should have been detained in a mental health unit. He was a timebomb waiting to go off.


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    #635
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    tretorn wrote: »
    You dont know that, no one knows what would have happened.

    No one knew what was going on in Hawes mind but an experienced person might have come to the conclusion that he was a danger to himself and others, he in fact probably should have been detained in a mental health unit.

    TUSLA don't have the power to remove an adult from the family home


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    #636
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Zorya wrote: »
    I don't think Tusla would have that kind of power on foot of a report about a person watching porn.

    It's all truly an exceptionally horrible case.

    Wasn’t it more than “watching porn”? There was masterbation which is a public lewd act close to children (a school). I think that’s the real concern raised


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    #637
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    tretorn wrote: »
    No one knew what was going on in Hawes mind but an experienced mental health professional might have come to the conclusion that he was a danger to himself and others, he in fact probably should have been detained in a mental health unit. He was a timebomb waiting to go off.

    You can't section people this way, no more than you could section drug gang leaders who are all timebombs too. It's not a mental health issue to be abusive or controlling.


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    #638
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    If Hawe was judged to be a danger to the children then either they or he would have to leave the family home.

    A visit to the door from Tusla might have made Clodagh think about leaving and she had good family support. She would definitely have put the interests of her children before anything else including Hawe and Tusla would also have interviewed all the children about life in the home.

    This is the whole point of Tusla.


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    #639
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    tretorn wrote: »
    You dont know that,

    Yes I do.

    Tbh I’m finding your posts needlessly inflammatory.
    Nothing could have prevented Alan from doing what only himself and his darkest thoughts were privy to. And more importantly, no one else is responsible.


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    #640
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    tretorn wrote: »
    If Hawe was judged to be a danger to the children then either they or he would have to leave the family home.

    A visit to the door from Tusla might have made Clodagh think about leaving and she had good family support. She would definitely have put the interests of her children before anything else including Hawe and Tusla would also have interviewed all the children about life in the home.

    This is the whole point of Tusla.

    With respect, you have an awful lot of faith in TUSLA. They actually don't have the powers people think they do and they are so under resourced that reports can be left for months before being looked at.

    Looking at porn isn't a child protection issue in itself, a lot of parents do and are no threat to anyone. They wouldn't investigate someone simply for looking at porn.


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    #641
    Boneshakers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Boneshakers


    Tusla may have defused the situation if they had been involved at the outset like they should have been.

    That's the way they work,they address the issue head-on and manage these situations.

    Looks like Hawe was left swinging in the wind with disastrous consequences.


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    #642
    Lotus Flower
    Registered Users Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Yes I do.

    Tbh I’m finding your posts needlessly inflammatory.
    Nothing could have prevented Alan from doing what only himself and his darkest thoughts were privy to. And more importantly, no one else is responsible.

    Totally this. People are blaming circumstances and mental health issues but the way I see it, anyone who has it in them to do what he did to the four people he was supposed to love and protect is evil. End of.


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    #643
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    eviltwin wrote: »
    With respect, you have an awful lot of faith in TUSLA. They actually don't have the powers people think they do and they are so under resourced that reports can be left for months before being looked at.

    Looking at porn isn't a child protection issue in itself, a lot of parents do and are no threat to anyone. They wouldn't investigate someone simply for looking at porn.

    It is claimed that he was masturbating on the school premises while watching porn, why do you keep saying he was just watching porn.

    Would you be happy if you knew your childs teacher was masturbating while watching porn in a primary school.

    We dont actually know whether this is true or not and we wont until the school make a statement.

    Its pointless to announce he was evil and thats the end of the matter, that doesnt protect the next family who are left in the dark about something affecting their partners well being to such an extent that he murders four people so they dont find out what he was up to.


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    #644
    TCM
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    political analyst wrote:
    That's beside the point because watching adult porn on a computer on the school premises would have been enough to sack him because, at the very least, it was against the school's ethos.


    It most certainly is not beside the point as to whether he was watching child porn or adult porn. Watching child porn is a criminal offence.


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    #645
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Boneshakers wrote: »
    Tusla may have defused the situation if they had been involved at the outset like they should have been.

    That's the way they work,they address the issue head-on and manage these situations.

    Looks like Hawe was left swinging in the wind with disastrous consequences.

    They can only manage what they know and we have no reason to think anyone had made a report to them in the first place and if they had what could they say?

    That he looks at porn? So do a lot of parents, it's not a child protection issue

    That he was believed to be controlling? Again, not a child protection issue

    I don't have any love for TUSLA and there are cases where they have massively screwed up but this is not one of them.


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    #646
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Jacqueline Connolly's article is now online in full:

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/jacqueline-connolly-how-the-state-failed-my-sister-clodagh-hawe-and-her-sons-37872564.html


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    #647
    Boneshakers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Boneshakers


    eviltwin wrote: »
    They can only manage what they know and we have no reason to think anyone had made a report to them in the first place and if they had what could they say?

    That he looks at porn? So do a lot of parents, it's not a child protection issue

    That he was believed to be controlling? Again, not a child protection issue

    I don't have any love for TUSLA and there are cases where they have massively screwed up but this is not one of them.
    It's apparent the school was involved,there seems to have been an oversight in not notifying Tusla


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    #648
    Lotus Flower
    Registered Users Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    tretorn wrote: »

    Its pointless to announce he was evil and thats the end of the matter, that doesnt protect the next family who are left in the dark about something affecting their partners well being to such an extent that he murders four people so they dont find out what he was up to.

    Don't misunderstand me, if there are unanswered questions then yes, the family should absolutely be told. But he is evil for what he did. No one is responsible but him


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    #649
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Boneshakers wrote: »
    It's apparent the school was involved,there seems to have been an oversight in not notifying Tusla

    How do you know they didn't :confused:


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    #650
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    If he was caught at something in March, he was still able to turn up at school every day until the summer so basically for roughly three months. Yet he could not go back after the summer so the question is what happened over the eight weeks of July and August to convince him the game was up and everyone especially Clodagh was about to find out. Did he get the result of a disciplinary process or was he told that one was about to begin or did the incident at school in fact happen during the summer.


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    #651
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    If he was caught at something in March, he was still able to turn up at school every day until the summer so basically for roughly three months. Yet he could not go back after the summer so the question is what happened over the eight weeks of July and August to convince him the game was up and everyone especially Clodagh was about to find out. Did he get the result of a disciplinary process or was he told that one was about to begin or did the incident at school in fact happen during the summer.

    The school incident didn’t happen in March, he started attending counselling in March in relation to confessing to his wife that he had a problem with porn. It is thought the incident at school happened some time in June.


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    #652
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    WE dont know when the incident happened, the family were given no information.

    It is possible he told Clodagh he had been watching porn after he was caught. Maybe he thought by seeking counselling it might be possible for him to continue on in his job. Your husband saying he was watching porn is very different to telling her you have been caught masturbating on school premises while watching porn on a school laptop.


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    #653
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    retro:electro wrote: »
    The school incident didn’t happen in March, he started attending counselling in March in relation to confessing to his wife that he had a problem with porn. It is thought the incident at school happened some time in June.

    But I thought the general consensus was that he told Clodagh a kind of cover story (porn thing) and went for counselling after he was caught. Not too many husbands just confess to the wife that they are watching porn unless they are forced to.


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    #654
    hawley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭hawley


    road_high wrote: »
    Presume ultimately it was Hawes family that would have initiated the legal proceedings surrounding the will etc;
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/3802367/clodagh-hawe-family-legal-letter-weeks-after-funeral/

    If so they are scum and clearly he didn’t lick it off the floor.
    That's a really nasty comment to make about them.


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    #655
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Also in fairness I'm sure the guards aren't withholding info from the mother and sister just to torment them and add to their grief. There must be some legal reasons why they can't share all the information they have and that should be looked at with a view to changing the rights of bereaved family members in cases like this.


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    #656
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    hawley wrote: »
    That's a really nasty comment to make about them.

    Really? I don’t think so at all- I don’t think it’s morally appropriate for them to profit from the evil deeds of their son and sending solicitors letters two weeks after the filth had wiped out Clodagh and her sons. But I’m old fashioned like that I guess!
    If they had any decency they’d drop any claims to the estate and leave it to Clodaghs family. That would be the right thing to do


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    #657
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,122 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    road_high wrote: »
    Really? I don’t think so at all- I don’t think it’s morally appropriate for them to profit from the evil deeds of their son and sending solicitors letters two weeks after the filth had wiped out Clodagh and her sons. But I’m old fashioned like that I guess!

    We have no idea who sent the letter and so unfair to speculate without clear facts


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    #658
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,366 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Also in fairness I'm sure the guards aren't withholding info from the mother and sister just to torment them and add to their grief. There must be some legal reasons why they can't share all the information they have and that should be looked at with a view to changing the rights of bereaved family members in cases like this.

    With school/Gardai/etc there's always information that can't be shared for various reasons. A lot of people don't relies it tough.


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    #659
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We have no idea who sent the letter and so unfair to speculate without clear facts

    And who do you think would have sent it? Santy Claus?


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    #660
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    road_high wrote:
    Really? I don’t think so at all- I don’t think it’s morally appropriate for them to profit from the evil deeds of their son and sending solicitors letters two weeks after the filth had wiped out Clodagh and her sons. But I’m old fashioned like that I guess!


    I don't think it's morally appropriate to present theories as surely soon to proven facts. What you have said is a thinly veiled accusation imo.


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    #661
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Pter wrote: »
    I don't think it's morally appropriate to present theories as surely soon to proven facts. What you have said is a thinly veiled accusation imo.

    So who sent the solicitors letter?


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