Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

aloooof

daddy pig wrote: »

But I'm not talking about academy players as a whole. I never made out that there was any stark difference there.
I am talking specifically about the number 10 position where the difference is quite clearly stark as the numbers point out.

You specifically said:

daddy pig wrote: »

Maybe a Munster fan can let me know why on earth hasn't Healy or any academy players been blooded this year?

If you meant just in relation to 10, fair enough, but it wasn't clear.

Buer

Craig Casey into the 23 is what jumps out there. Is McCarthy fit?

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Craig Casey into the 23 is what jumps out there. Is McCarthy fit?

Neither McCarthy or Cronin were mentioned on the injury report.

Rigor Mortis

aloooof wrote: »

Munster academy players have 578 minutes this season. Leinster academy players have 753.

The difference isn't as stark as you're making out, especially when you consider senior guys like Wycherly (who has featured in every game but one), Shane Daly (who has started 8 games) Calvin Nash, Gavin Coombes etc. are all 23 or under.

Munster are giving youth much more of a chance this season, but we still see te comments like this on here.

Thats 25% more which is pretty stark.
The number of non - academy young wans at Leinster is impressive too.
Absolutely Munster are giving young players more time this season, its a world cup year. Personally though, and i may be wrong, I think VanGran is concerned about his position and is scared to give time to players like Healy. Others have said it but he increasingly reminds me of Michael O'Connor

daddy pig

aloooof wrote: »

You specifically said: Maybe a Munster fan can let me know why on earth hasn't Healy or any academy players been blooded this year?

As all the examples I had pointed out and all the stats I had given were in relation to the number 10 position I would have thought it was clear that I was speaking in relation to any other academy players who can play at 10.

Apologies if you felt that was unclear but to avoid any other confusion maybe a Munster fan can let me know why on earth hasn't Healy or any academy players who can play 10 been blooded this year?

aloooof

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Thats 25% more which is pretty stark.
The number of non - academy young wans at Leinster is impressive too.
Absolutely Munster are giving young players more time this season, its a world cup year. Personally though, and i may be wrong, I think VanGran is concerned about his position and is scared to give time to players like Healy. Others have said it but he increasingly reminds me of Michael O'Connor

Craig Casey was academy until Munster offered him a senior contract (following Leinster's approach). If you add in his minutes, it increases to 654 (and 13% difference). Or alternatively, Leinster have more players in their academy then Munster, so if you adjust for that the difference is 18%. The difference isn't as stark as is being made out.

Presumably you mean Matt O'Connor?

daddy pig

Buer wrote: »

Healy will get a couple more starts before the end of the season. He won't suddenly be thrown into the deep end.

Luckily JJ Hanrahan has been passed fit this weekend but the talk all week was Healy was going to be literally thrown in at the deep end away to Racing in the Champions Cup.
With the profiles of the other fly halfs Munster have surely he should have been involved in blowouts against the Dragons, Ospreys, Cardiff at the start of the season?

Buer

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Thats 25% more which is pretty stark.
The number of non - academy young wans at Leinster is impressive too.
Absolutely Munster are giving young players more time this season, its a world cup year. Personally though, and i may be wrong, I think VanGran is concerned about his position and is scared to give time to players like Healy. Others have said it but he increasingly reminds me of Michael O'Connor

I wonder what Matt O'Connor would make of it too.




Shut up, Buer.

Rigor Mortis

aloooof wrote: »

Craig Casey was academy until Munster offered him a senior contract (following Leinster's approach). If you add in his minutes, it increases to 654. Also, Leinster have more players in their academy then Munster, so if you adjust for that, the difference is down to 61 minutes. It really isn't anywhere near as stark as is being made out.

Presumably you mean Matt O'Connor?

I do mean Matt, thank you.

The qualifications are interesting. Happy to be educated.

yerrahbah

I guess the 5-3 split on the bench is due to the fitness concerns over JJ, Conway and Haley.

No 2nd row on the bench either

Cookiemunster

daddy pig wrote: »

Luckily JJ Hanrahan has been passed fit this weekend but the talk all week was Healy was going to be literally thrown in at the deep end away to Racing in the Champions Cup.
With the profiles of the other fly halfs Munster have surely he should have been involved in blowouts against the Dragons, Ospreys, Cardiff at the start of the season?

Don't read anything into the named lineup. It just means that Hanrahan isn't ruled out.

I'm not sure what profile you're talking about for the other 10s, but both TB and Hanrahan were fully fit for those games you've listed and the Celtic cup was ongoing so Healy was playing for the A team.

daddy pig

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm not sure what profile you're talking about for the other 10s, but both TB and Hanrahan were fully fit for those games you've listed and the Celtic cup was ongoing so Healy was playing for the A team.

I mean there Irish commitments (Carberry) and historic injury profiles (Carberry and Bleyendaal).
I found it very odd to see Hanrahan and Bleyendaal as the only 10's who played the first 6 Pro 14 games. Surely this was the time to blood Healy?
The thought process seems to be we have 3 fly halfs and this will do us the whole season.

Rigor Mortis

Buer wrote: »

I wonder what Matt O'Connor would make of it too.

Shut up, Buer.

Good advice, from an unlikely source

randomrb

Interesting that Ryan is on the bench for Racing, given how much havoc he caused munster the last few times I would have thought he would be nailed on to start

The Lost Sheep

daddy pig wrote: »

As all the examples I had pointed out and all the stats I had given were in relation to the number 10 position I would have thought it was clear that I was speaking in relation to any other academy players who can play at 10.

Apologies if you felt that was unclear but to avoid any other confusion maybe a Munster fan can let me know why on earth hasn't Healy or any academy players who can play 10 been blooded this year?

Ben's defence isnt good enough yet. His tackling can be very poor and wouldnt want that at higher level.
They havent played anyone as there hasn't been anyone ready to step up to that level yet

randomrb wrote: »

Interesting that Ryan is on the bench for Racing, given how much havoc he caused munster the last few times I would have thought he would be nailed on to start

if tigt game could cause havoc if comes on with 20-30to go

Dubinusa

I think Munster can frustrate Racing and sneak a win. Racing have been geebags this year and the defense in the backs is poor. Munster should play a typical Munster game and control the pace and territory.

kingofthekong

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ben's defence isnt good enough yet. His tackling can be very poor and wouldnt want that at higher level.
They havent played anyone as there hasn't been anyone ready to step up to that level yet
if tigt game could cause havoc if comes on with 20-30to go

Lol O'gara played for munster for the best part of a decade and couldnt tackle a beach ball

IMO Munster bottled not picking Healy and it continues the trend of it being very difficult for younger players to make it through at Munster

Kirk Van Houten

daddy pig wrote: »

I mean there Irish commitments (Carberry) and historic injury profiles (Carberry and Bleyendaal).
I found it very odd to see Hanrahan and Bleyendaal as the only 10's who played the first 6 Pro 14 games. Surely this was the time to blood Healy?
The thought process seems to be we have 3 fly halfs and this will do us the whole season.

The early part of the season was about bedding in the new style of play. You are looking at one position in hindsight and not taking into account the half backs as a unit. The scrum half experience was let go at the end of last season and I'm sure the thought process was to avoid if possible the situation of new/inexperienced half backs and a new style of play.

aloooof

kingofthekong wrote: »

Lol O'gara played for munster for the best part of a decade and couldnt tackle a beach ball

IMO Munster bottled not picking Healy and it continues the trend of it being very difficult for younger players to make it through at Munster

How many interviews do we hear from ex pro's saying how the game is much more difficult / physical / faster etc. now than it was 5, 10 etc. year ago. You're not comparing like-with-like.

thomond2006

kingofthekong wrote: »

Lol O'gara played for munster for the best part of a decade and couldnt tackle a beach ball

IMO Munster bottled not picking Healy and it continues the trend of it being very difficult for younger players to make it through at Munster

If JJ is fit you would be absolutely mad to pick Healy over him in a game like this. This is shiny new toy syndrome.

Eod100

Some good news here. https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/01/10/munster-rugby-receive-lssif-grant/

phog

daddy pig wrote: »

I mean there Irish commitments (Carberry) and historic injury profiles (Carberry and Bleyendaal).
I found it very odd to see Hanrahan and Bleyendaal as the only 10's who played the first 6 Pro 14 games. Surely this was the time to blood Healy?
The thought process seems to be we have 3 fly halfs and this will do us the whole season.

I genuinely, maybe innocently, believe that you really want to be right and that you will not accept any other explanation.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

If JJ is fit you would be absolutely mad to pick Healy over him in a game like this. This is shiny new toy syndrome.

JJ's biggest issue is that he's never fully fit and I don't mean that in the context of injury.

He fatigues early and becomes innacurate. Loads of talent though.

kingofthekong

aloooof wrote: »

How many interviews do we hear from ex pro's saying how the game is much more difficult / physical / faster etc. now than it was 5, 10 etc. year ago. You're not comparing like-with-like.

Doesn't change the point I made, having a 10 that cant tackle isnt something munster are opposed to picking lol

daddy pig

phog wrote: »

I genuinely, maybe innocently, believe that you really want to be right and that you will not accept any other explanation.

I don't follow Munster as closely as Leinster or Ulster so I was simply genuinely curious as to why Healy has not received any gametime. I don't claim to know all about Munster and wondered if the viewpoint I felt was what Munster fans might echo or if I missed something.

Personally I believe that it was poor foresight by the management team to rely on Bleyendaal or Carberry being fit for large parts of the season and that they should have played Healy a lot more. I don't see the advantage of Bleyendaal having played the first 6 games of the season and this should have been split with Healy to give him experience if required later in the season. I feel the management have prioritised the short term results in detriment to Healy and it very nearly came back to bite them this weekend. Thats only my opinion however and it's neither right nor wrong.

The two genuine answers I received was that Healy was poor in defence and that Munster were wanting to build momentum early in the season. I appreciated the responses.
Everytime somebody might take an issue or have a question about a rival province doesn't automatically mean trolling as well 👍

aloooof

kingofthekong wrote: »

Doesn't change the point I made, having a 10 that cant tackle isnt something munster are opposed to picking lol

Different coaches and different players in different eras.

Chalk and cheese. Apples and oranges. "Lol" indeed.

solerina

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Assuming he's talking about Johnston.

I have been told by someone who seems to always have good information that Bill Johnston was thought of as a good player but they didn’t think he was ever going to be a good enough player...lacked flair and the ability to think on his feet....that he had reached a plateau....if that’s the case then he was right to go and wouldn’t be in the reckoning anyway if he had stayed.

theVersatile

Grant acquired for indoor training centre in IIP. If its anything like the IRFU HPC, it'll be great for underage sides and local clubs.

Cookiemunster

theVersatile wrote: »

Grant acquired for indoor training centre in IIP. If its anything like the IRFU HPC, it'll be great for underage sides and local clubs.

From the pics I've seen of the IRFU centre the plans for this facility seem to be pretty similar (but possibly not to the same standard).

theVersatile

Eoghan Barrett formerly of CBC on the bench for Pau this weekend.