Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

Eod100

molloyjh wrote: »

Leinster, Exeter and Toulouse are all on higher points than Racing so top seed is a long shot for them at this stage I reckon. Its win or bust this weekend for Munster.

Probably not top seed but looks like they will be competing with Clermont for 4th and home quarter.

phog

With Carbery, Hanrahan and Bleyendaal out I'd start Scannell at 10 and have Healy on the bench.

FrannoFan

Former Former wrote: »

If Racing win at the weekend, they'll have qualified as group winners before they go to Sarries. They're flaky on the road at the best of times but with nothing at stake, they'll be easy pickings for Saracens.

Have to win this weekend.

Yea. racing won't beat Saracens away. can't be looking for any favours there.

It's annoying-if Leisnter were in the similar situation they would be saying "we have a chance to knock out a proper rival" but don't see Racing having the same mindset.

Eod100

phog wrote: »

With Carbery, Hanrahan and Bleyendaal out I'd start Scannell at 10 and have Healy on the bench.

Think so. Presume at this short notice a medical joker wouldn't be possible? La Rochelle playing Friday night, plenty of time for ROG to get to Paris for Sunday.. :P

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

Leinster, Exeter and Toulouse are all on higher points than Racing so top seed is a long shot for them at this stage I reckon. Its win or bust this weekend for Munster.

It is but all is not rosey even if they win. If they do so, I'd expect it to be without a BP giving them 4 points. I expect Saracens to destroy the Ospreys and put them level on points with Munster.

That means Saracens go above Munster based on the head to head record. Then I would not bet against a full strength Saracens dismantling Racing in the final game and securing top spot pushing Munster into a runner up spot (assuming Munster stuff Ospreys too).

Obviously it's all pointless if Munster don't pull off a big win this weekend. I'd have almost tipped them to sneak a win in Paris; Racing are not anything special and can be beaten on any given day. Going into things with an academy outhalf might be a step too far though particularly without other guys like Beirne.

Former Former

Is Hanrahan definitely out?

FrannoFan

Van gran giving out about a lack of cohesion and having to constantly change his team.

interesting reading from lancaster on what they are doing in Leinster to counteract that

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-cohesion-4955214-Jan2020/

Cookiemunster

FrannoFan wrote: »

Van gran giving out about a lack of cohesion and having to constantly change his team.

interesting reading from lancaster on what they are doing in Leinster to counteract that

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-cohesion-4955214-Jan2020/

Leinster haven't changed coaches over the summer while the internationals were away. Much easier to be cohesive when the internationals return into the exact same setup that they left. Having a much better academy to pick from helps too.

aloooof

FrannoFan wrote: »

Van gran giving out about a lack of cohesion and having to constantly change his team.

interesting reading from lancaster on what they are doing in Leinster to counteract that

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-cohesion-4955214-Jan2020/

... for senior coach Stuart Lancaster the secret to sustaining it orbits around two Cs. Cohesion and competition.

It's far easier to maintain the former when you also have the latter. I don't think anyone would argue that Munster have anywhere near the same competition for places as Leinster.

Add in the coaching changes that Cookiemunster referenced too, and it makes things difficult.

kingofthekong

Perfect opportunity to give Ben Healy a run.....will Munster trust a young player....

Eod100

Buer wrote: »

It is but all is not rosey even if they win. If they do so, I'd expect it to be without a BP giving them 4 points. I expect Saracens to destroy the Ospreys and put them level on points with Munster.

That means Saracens go above Munster based on the head to head record. Then I would not bet against a full strength Saracens dismantling Racing in the final game and securing top spot pushing Munster into a runner up spot (assuming Munster stuff Ospreys too).

Obviously it's all pointless if Munster don't pull off a big win this weekend. I'd have almost tipped them to sneak a win in Paris; Racing are not anything special and can be beaten on any given day. Going into things with an academy outhalf might be a step too far though particularly without other guys like Beirne.

Yeah I got Munster at 13/5 (2.6) before this, they're gone to 7/2 (3.5) now. Munster are still 7/2 to top group and Saracens 9/1. Obviously expecting Munster to lose but still seems high odds for Saracens.

Eod100

aloooof wrote: »

It's far easier to maintain the former when you also have the latter. I don't think anyone would argue that Munster have anywhere near the same competition for places as Leinster.

Add in the coaching changes that Cookiemunster referenced too, and it makes things difficult.

I could be wrong but think I read Leinster used their 50th player of the season vs Connacht. Would say for other provinces it wouldn't top 40 be more 35ish

randomrb

FrannoFan wrote: »

Van gran giving out about a lack of cohesion and having to constantly change his team.

interesting reading from lancaster on what they are doing in Leinster to counteract that

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-cohesion-4955214-Jan2020/

We need to stop comparing ourselves to Leinster and trying to do what they do. There is no other club in the world that has the academy/schools system that feeds them (the closest would be Saracens or possible some of the NZ teams).

We need to work out how to do this with maximising the resources we have as a previous poster says is easy to have competition when you have talented young players coming out of your ears and basically a full squad of Internationals on top of that.

I'm not saying we can't compete with them, I think we can if everything clicks but we shouldn't compare ourselves to them.

connemara man

Eod100 wrote: »

I could be wrong but think I read Leinster used their 50th player of the season vs Connacht. Would say for other provinces it wouldn't top 40 be more 35ish

Connacht have used 40+ this season already

thomond2006

Former Former wrote: »

Is Hanrahan definitely out?

Munster Rugby wrote:

JJ Hanrahan and Tommy O’Donnell are both rehabbing well from hamstring injuries sustained against Leinster.

He's rehabbing a hamstring injury so he's definitely out.

In positive news, Kevin O’Byrne, Rhys Marshall and Darren Sweetnam will all be reintroduced to training this week.

Given it's a Sunday afternoon game, perhaps it's possible some/all of those three can be available. We are down to Diarmuid Barron on the bench (not in the Euro squad but three front row players can be added to the squad in the pool stages) if KOB and Marshall are out.

Eod100

connemara man wrote: »

Connacht have used 40+ this season already

Ah maybe stats I saw were over the interpros, must see can I dig it out. Guess a lot of that is injury enforced but still

connemara man

Eod100 wrote: »

Ah maybe stats I saw were over the interpros, must see can I dig it out. Guess a lot of that is injury enforced but still

Yeah the 31 number was just the Interpros

yerrahbah

Munster have used 47 players so far this season

Interested Observer

FrannoFan wrote: »

Van gran giving out about a lack of cohesion and having to constantly change his team.

interesting reading from lancaster on what they are doing in Leinster to counteract that

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-cohesion-4955214-Jan2020/

He's starting to remind me of MOC to be honest. Lots of complaints about player management, preference for signings over academy, some very unimaginative rugby being played.

Canyon86

Making the trip to Paris, buzzing for the match regardless of last week, SUAF!!!!!!!!:D

Cookiemunster

Interested Observer wrote: »

He's starting to remind me of MOC to be honest. Lots of complaints about player management, preference for signings over academy, some very unimaginative rugby being played.

Except that there haven't been. He said before Christmas that they were well aware of the player management regime this season and they were working around it.

What he's said this week is that because of the structure of this season and the enforced breaks, it makes it difficult to get the internationals up to speed with the new systems. That's not complaining about player management, it's just stating fact.

Ruaidhri O'Connor on OTB last night agreed with him. As have the likes of Wood and Flannery.

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

Perfect opportunity to give Ben Healy a run.....will Munster trust a young player....

you love to have a pop at Munster on this but they do trust younger players but far easier to bring players through in leinster....

randomrb wrote: »

We need to stop comparing ourselves to Leinster and trying to do what they do. There is no other club in the world that has the academy/schools system that feeds them (the closest would be Saracens or possible some of the NZ teams).

We need to work out how to do this with maximising the resources we have as a previous poster says is easy to have competition when you have talented young players coming out of your ears and basically a full squad of Internationals on top of that.

I'm not saying we can't compete with them, I think we can if everything clicks but we shouldn't compare ourselves to them.

some of New Zealand teams certainly do have underage, schools, clubs set up as good as better than leinster.
We have to at age grade focus more on clubs as we'll never really improve by focusing on schools. Club rugby needs changes to help get more players playing to higher level more often

Eod100

Looks like Zebo has been ruled out

Buer

Eod100 wrote: »

Looks like Zebo has been ruled out

Honestly, it doesn't weaken Racing at all, really. He hasn't exactly been tearing it up. Racing's best showing this season was when they beat Saracens at home with Dulin, Thomas and Imhoff as the back three and Zebo on the bench.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Honestly, it doesn't weaken Racing at all, really. He hasn't exactly been tearing it up. Racing's best showing this season was when they beat Saracens at home with Dulin, Thomas and Imhoff as the back three and Zebo on the bench.

He was not good in the first meeting in Limerick either.

Interested Observer

Some of his attempts at defending this season have been risible. Any big runners coming at him at pace and he doesn't want to know.

Eod100

Buer wrote: »

Honestly, it doesn't weaken Racing at all, really. He hasn't exactly been tearing it up. Racing's best showing this season was when they beat Saracens at home with Dulin, Thomas and Imhoff as the back three and Zebo on the bench.

Ah yeah, just thought it might be of interest to some people. Wasnt really commenting on any impact it would have on team

moritz1234

I fear a right hammering at the weekend - hope not.

Eod100

moritz1234 wrote: »

I fear a right hammering at the weekend - hope not.

I'm the same. Can't see it being much less than 10 or 15 and could be far worse

yerrahbah

I guess if we are moving Scannell to 10 then the question becomes who moves to 12.

Goggin or Arnold?

Or Farrell to 12 with one of the above going to 13.

If we are to try and play the more expansive style that we showed in glimpses this season, then we need Scannell at 12, which means Healy at 10.