Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Couldn't find much on Roosky in terms of actual local response, but Grand Torino covered Wicklow Town and Rosslare, he filmed the whole thing. To say the locals are pissed is an understatement:

As for increased crime and protests, Balbriggan is turning into a ghetto.

To be honest, apart from local radio calls and Youtubers like Grand Torino/The Don, the Irish Times/RTE are refusing to cover this.

Crime is certainly up in certain areas, but down in others:

https://www.thejournal.ie/cso-recorded-crimes-september-2018-4409176-Dec2018/

Thanks for replying. I was afraid the question would go unanswered!

BBFAN

The amount of posters here saying "yes arson is wrong but...…." is unbelievable.

Wibbs

dav3 wrote: »

I never made that claim. The debate on this subject has raged on for years. You need to stop being so disingenuous by suggesting otherwise.

I was speaking of this thread in particular and well you should know it. The same thread that you want me to "bring [my] "debate" to one of the many other threads running around boards and leave this one as it should be". IE one that agrees with you and doesn't ask questions that you quite simply seem incapable of answering. Oh you'd love if I was the Muslamic Raygun type, but someone who isn't and doesn't get into the "LOLS" and linking some Yank nutter on Youtube is not so easy to rebuke, so you resort to deflection and insult. Consider this thread: Between the apparent "right wingers" and the apparent "right on", which group has resorted more to deflection and covert, even overt insult? For a nice change it isn't the "nazis".

You also need to knock the 'butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth' spiel on the head.

I have never claimed to be anything much beyond a thundering gobshite, who knows stuff about the oddest stuff and that's about it.

Using emotive language such as 'men of fighting age' or 'open borders' brings nothing to the discussion, yet we see it popping up time and again on threads like these. It's designed to spread fear and hostility, and is typically directed to a particular type of person.

OK..

Me. On open borders. Earlier wrote:

Well I wouldn't class them as "open border types". The vast majority of people outside of a few nutters - funny enough on the extremes of socialism and capitalism - aren't calling for open borders.

So nope, not the stereotype you need me to be.

I doubt you have the statistics for asylum centres in Ireland, the feedback from the local population, or indeed the history. Yet you appear to be an expert on the subject and continue to push the slippery slope theory about Ireland at any opportunity.

You haven't answered my direct and repeated question put to you and similar cheerleaders: Do you deny that these social issues exist[because of multiculturalism] and continue to exist in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Sweden?

How about you bring your "debate" to one of the many other threads running around boards and leave this one as it should be.

So you can all hold hands and agree? Nope. And I'd do the exact same if it was a love in for Nazis. Indeed I've been accused of being both a "Jew apologist" and an "Anti Semite", the latter because I questioned the near century long land grab and plantation and abuse of Palestinians by Israel.

Although it is presented as 'just asking questions', it is anything but. Thankfully the majority of Irish people can see through this.

Jaysus I may be arrogant, but you have the pulse of the majority of Irish people? Fair play.

malinheader

BBFAN wrote: »

The amount of posters here saying "yes arson is wrong but...…." is unbelievable.

Funny how we differ.
The amount of posters here saying no we don't have a problem with direct provisions or hundreds of migrants being dropped into small communities with no amenities etc, is unbelievable.

Wibbs

BBFAN wrote: »

The amount of posters here saying "yes arson is wrong but...…." is unbelievable.

The arson attack was wrong. It was a crime. It was almost certainly a crime based on xenophobia. Whoever is responsible should be hit with the full weight of the law. Can I be any clearer? I don't know how as I and others have repeatedly said this.

The "but" part is simply asking the whys behind it, how we got here, and shouting "racists!" while comforting in its simplicity, is not the whole story and until we have the whole story and background to this crime, this idiocy will be sure to happen again.

SnakePlissken

BBFAN wrote: »

The amount of posters here saying "yes arson is wrong but...…." is unbelievable.

Quote just one.

greenpilot

Question.

Is there anybody posting on this thread actually living in Ballagh or Rooskey?

dav3

Wibbs wrote: »

...

What exactly did "almost your entire posting history on this website and across a couple of previous accounts has been a political agenda" mean earlier?

What data have you accessed to lead you to such an erroneous statement?
and
Have you shared this data?

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

The "but" part is simply asking the whys behind it, how we got here, and shouting "racists!" while comforting in its simplicity, is not the whole story and until we have the whole story and background to this crime, this idiocy will be sure to happen again.

No.
Sorry.
There is no justification for crime. There is no justification for arson. There is no justification for taking the law into your own hands & deciding that arson is the answer.
Offenders are always wrong.

greenpilot

greenpilot wrote: »

Question.

Is there anybody posting on this thread actually living in Ballagh or Rooskey?

I am from a small leitrim town, we had a direct provision centre in the town a few years ago. There was no issues at all. People settled there or they moved somewhere else after their time in the centre. It gave employment to many people in the town & everyone welcomed the occupants with no problems.

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
Sorry.
There is no justification for crime. There is no justification for arson. There is no justification for taking the law into your own hands & deciding that arson is the answer.
Offenders are always wrong.

What if you are the oppressed?

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

No population of a town has any knowledge or gives consent about any newcomers to their town.
I can go live wherever I want in this country & no one needs to be consulted beforehand

That's great that you can do that in your "assuming" home country.

Try moving to America or Australia without consulting anyone and you'll be on the next plane home.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That's great that you can do that in your "assuming" home country.

Try moving to America or Australia without consulting anyone and you'll be on the next plane home.

If you are legally in a country then it doesn't matter where the country is.

yamaha50

yamaha50 wrote: »

Jaysus
Scarlet for ya mate

Really?
Don't be. Don't know why you would be.

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

If you are legally in a country then it doesn't matter where the country is.

How can you be legally in America or Australia without consulting with anyone?

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
Sorry.
There is no justification for crime. There is no justification for arson. There is no justification for taking the law into your own hands & deciding that arson is the answer.
Offenders are always wrong.

No. Sorry, yourself. Nobody is justifying the crime. Some are asking explanations for the crime beyond the simplistic. Justification - Explanation. One of these days you may yet understand the difference.

Wibbs

dav3 wrote: »

What exactly did "almost your entire posting history on this website and across a couple of previous accounts has been a political agenda" mean earlier?

What data have you accessed to lead you to such an erroneous statement?
and
Have you shared this data?

Christ, but you're about as subtle in your machinations as a house brick to the kneecap. Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree I'm afraid.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

No. Sorry, yourself. Nobody is justifying the crime. Some are asking explanations for the crime beyond the simplistic. Justification - Explanation. One of these days you may yet understand the difference.

Oh no, I understand what you want to do here. But sorry, there is no justification for any crime.
It doesn't matter if the offender has his/her own reason for doing something. The offender is always wrong. In every criminal case.
It doesn't matter what they think or what their reasons are.
Break the law........ You are wrong.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

How can you be legally in America or Australia without consulting with anyone?

You can't.
Same as Ireland. Any refugees or asylum seeker is here legally

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Really?
Don't be. Don't know why you would be.

I would. You glibly brush off a troubling statistic, as if you were absently chewing the cud.

Sweetemotion

bubblypop wrote: »

I am from a small leitrim town, we had a direct provision centre in the town a few years ago. There was no issues at all. People settled there or they moved somewhere else after their time in the centre. It gave employment to many people in the town & everyone welcomed the occupants with no problems.

If it was such a success, why is it. We had, there was and it gave?

Surly it would be. We have, there is and it gives.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh no, I understand what you want to do here. But sorry, there is no justification for any crime.
It doesn't matter if the offender has his/her own reason for doing something. The offender is always wrong. In every criminal case.
It doesn't matter what they think or what their reasons are.
Break the law........ You are wrong.

You seem incapable of understanding that nobody is arguing or justifying that.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

You seem incapable of understanding that nobody is arguing or justifying that.

But you are, you seem to think that there is some reason behind what happened.
It doesn't matter.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

If it was such a success, why is it. We had, there was and it gave?

Surly it would be. We have, there is and it gives.

No, because there are private companies that provide this service.
When it's not profitable anymore, they stop providing the service.
I don't see how you couldn't understand that!

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh no, I understand what you want to do here. But sorry, there is no justification for any crime.
It doesn't matter if the offender has his/her own reason for doing something. The offender is always wrong. In every criminal case.
It doesn't matter what they think or what their reasons are.
Break the law........ You are wrong.

Though on second thoughts and after an all too brief visit to the local hostelry and more a general observation; there are all sorts of flaws with your above reasoning as a position.

Cast your mind back 30 years. Being Gay was illegal, against the law. A crime. "But sorry, there is no justification for any crime. It doesn't matter if the offender has his/her own reason for doing something. The offender is always wrong. In every criminal case. It doesn't matter what they think or what their reasons are. Break the law........ You are wrong"

I would respectfully(actually genuinely) suggest to avoid absolutes in law and morality. These are goalposts that shift with the slightest breeze.

But you are, you seem to think that there is some reason behind what happened. It doesn't matter.

This again is a very simplistic two tone view of the world. It most certainly matters. All actions, negative or positive, have reasons, however misguided or retarded or just plain insane. If the reasons and causes behind any crime are not examined then how do you hope to stop further crimes?

dav3

Wibbs wrote: »

Christ, but you're about as subtle in your machinations as a house brick to the kneecap. Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree I'm afraid.

You're the one who made the claim. I see you're attempting to laugh it off now, I'm not sure you fully understand the implication.
I think people would be well within their rights to assume rogue moderators could, or are, accessing the data of users they disagree with, based on your comment. Moderators who put 2 & 2 together and end up with 5. After that, who knows where the data ends up.

Would you like to take another attempt at explaining it? I'm sure it's just another misunderstanding on your behalf.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Though on second thoughts and after an all too brief visit to the local hostelry and more a general observation; there are all sorts of flaws with your above reasoning as a position.

Cast your mind back 30 years. Being Gay was illegal, against the law. A crime. "But sorry, there is no justification for any crime. It doesn't matter if the offender has his/her own reason for doing something. The offender is always wrong. In every criminal case. It doesn't matter what they think or what their reasons are. Break the law........ You are wrong"

I would respectfully(actually genuinely) suggest to avoid absolutes in law and morality. These are goalposts that shift with the slightest breeze.

This again is a very simplistic two tone view of the world. It most certainly matters. All actions, negative or positive, have reasons, however misguided or retarded or just plain insane. If the reasons and causes behind any crime are not examined then how do you hope to stop further crimes?

Are you seriously trying to argue that someone was right in trying to burn this hotel down?
I am going to assume not.
So please don't try to put arson of this hotel in the same category as discrimination against homosexuality.
If there's a law that discriminates, then there are procedures in place to overturn that law.
I doubt very very much that there is anything that can overturn criminal damage to a private dwelling.

yamaha50

yamaha50 wrote: »

Sweet jaysus
Lay off the marching powder mate

??

yamaha50

yamaha50 wrote: »

Go to bed mate
Nobody believes a word you type here

Well, for sure no-one is listening to you!

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to argue that someone was right in trying to burn this hotel down?
I am going to assume not.

That was nice of you. And no, I'm not and it would take deep dive into a world of surrealism to even begin to think I was.

So please don't try to put arson of this hotel in the same category as discrimination against homosexuality.
If there's a law that discriminates, then there are procedures in place to overturn that law.
I doubt very very much that there is anything that can overturn criminal damage to a private dwelling.

You yet again can't seem to grasp the point and the nuances. Oh and by the by the same criminal would likely have gotten a medal in any number of dodgy societies. And if you had grown up in same, you'd likely be one of the ones cheering along at his investment. The vast majority of us would.