Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

enricoh · 14-02-2019 8:24pm

dav3 wrote: »

Is this what we're reduced to?

Straight after another anti-Irish, racist attack, the same half-dozen heads are trying to discuss anything but the actual attempted murder at the site. The same quotes, the same fearmongering, nothing new being brought to the table.
I can't imagine what it must be like to live in a constant state of fear, angry with the world and the life that they lead, consuming hours of conspiracy theory videos telling them there's a (((plan))) to destroy Ireland.
It's still baffling why some websites continue to encourage this behaviour. Thankfully their numbers are dwindling, not only in Ireland, but also across Europe. The downside is that they're becoming more desperate. It's only a matter of time before one snaps and they start targeting occupied refugee centres.

Dav3, as sure as day follows night wades in.
Those with opposite views to him are angry with the world, their lives, live in fear are conspiracy theorists and desperate. N theres only 6 of them
Any chance of debating snake pillsens points dav?
No chance, u knuckledragger!
Epic stuff dav, keep em coming!!

Boggles · 14-02-2019 9:01pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Does anyone know if many problems have manifested in these towns?

Apart from racist propaganda being distributed around a couple of these towns by a small bunch of simpletons who are not from the areas and the of course the odd bit of arson.

No.

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 9:13pm

Boggles wrote: »

Too much of a stretch to suggest what happened in England could be a future blueprint for a country like Ireland. The historical differences alone are stark.

Pick any EU country at random with a large immigrant population and the same things happen time and time and time again over decades. Ghettoisation, increase in ethnic based social problems, second and third generations becoming more pissed off, a minority go as far as going full on radical(not just Muslims) and cause serious problems, working class areas most affected, frustration among both the indigenous population and immigrant populations grows. We've seen this in France, Holland, Sweden, Germany, Italy and so on, not just the UK. We also see different outcomes depending on migrant backgrounds. For example East Asians, people from China, Vietnam, the Philippines and so forth rarely cause or have nearly the same social problems as other groups. Oh and lest anyone starts hopping up and down flicking their bean hoping for "racism", that includes White Europeans. EG Eastern European criminal networks.

But there is definitely lessons to be learned.

The first and most pertinent is that hate crimes directed at minorities especially the most vulnerable can not be tolerated under any circumstance.

There are lessons to be learned, but which ones? The catchall term of "hate crimes" is a tad too Orwellian for me and how does one define the parameters of them? Obvious guff like the arson attack, that's easy, but where does it stop? Does every negative encounter become a hate crime if it involves different ethnicities? Because that tends to be a trend and tends to lead to leverage for political purposes, over exaggeration and an increasing divide between communities.

Never mind an increase in a hands off approach by government, media, social services and the police. That was the big take away for me regarding the Rotherham cases and others in the UK. The media described them as "Asian" and were slow to report the case. The criminals ethnicity was about the single largest factor for the police and social workers doing nothing for fear of being accused of racial profiling. Something the UK police were guilty off in the past, illustrated in a comedy sketch in the 80's by Not the Nine O'Clock News show with Rowan Atkinson where he arrests a Black bloke for sporting fuzzy hair and big lips in a built up area. It was uncomfortably funny at the time because it was all too near to the bone. So after various government WTF? meetings and guidelines, the hands off it's not worth the paperwork came into play. Similar has happened in France, Germany and Sweden. The latter country so Right On they're the purple haired Tumblr bloggist of nations.

Will the Irish do it any differently? I seriously doubt it. As it stands with criminal elements in the Traveling community the media avoids references to their "ethnicity" like the very plague, using euphemisms like "traveling gangs". Oh and they're White and Irish, yet that's working out grand eh? Nope, it's gotten worse over the last few decades.

4068ac1elhodqr · 14-02-2019 10:07pm

WinnyThePoo · 14-02-2019 10:23pm

Kivaro wrote: »

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Sure what else would the snivelling little ****s talk about?

It obviously irritates you greatly that a discussion on the Irish haphazard asylum system is happening here.
Rational-minded people on either side of a topic do not mind having an open and frank debate, and it pleases me that it bothers you so much.

The bit that got me was when you said 'rational minded'. Top comedy.

You want a rational discussion. Act like it.

WinnyThePoo · 14-02-2019 10:25pm

SnakePlissken wrote: »

dav3 wrote: »

While the far-right is currently stagnating and in decline across Europe.

Do you think Dav3 understands this little land of fantasy his mind currently is lost to is not a world those of us in reality currently occupy.

Reality.... This is thread that keeps giving....you guys.. Its so... Cute.. Your so serious....

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 10:53pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You want a rational discussion. Act like it.

News just in... Apparently stating some posters are a bunch of "snivelling little shits" and "Top comedy" and "cute" and "your[sic] so serious" is now what passes for rational discussion?

Kivaro · 14-02-2019 10:55pm

I read recently about the characteristics of online posters who are the most vocal in the stifling of debate on various social issues. They were found to be mostly effeminate males who behave online in a manner that they would not dare to repeat in real life. Their online bravado feeds their real-life egotism but not in a healthy way. It's sad really.

Anyway, I hope the government reverses their stance of dumping disproportionately large numbers of asylum seekers in small villages across the country. When the Swedish authorities did this, it turned out to be a disaster. I'm am not sure why the Irish government believe that it will work here. The asylum process needs to be overhauled in its entirety so that genuine asylum seekers do not get lumped in with economic migrants, and the citizens of the country get an opportunity to be part of the debate on non-EU economic migration into Ireland and the asylum process itself.

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 11:43pm

Kivaro wrote: »

I read recently about the characteristics of online posters who are the most vocal in the stifling of debate on various social issues. They were found to be mostly effeminate males who behave online in a manner that they would not dare to repeat in real life. Their online bravado feeds their real-life egotism but not in a healthy way. It's sad really.

Whatever about real life egotism, "studies" like that I take with a large pinch of salt K. It might have been more the case in the early days of the interwebs where you'd find more men who obsessed about lining objects up and had the social impact of a slice of cheddar, but it's opened up to pretty much everyone, on all "sides".

I would agree that those online who cheerlead for banning/censoring/downvoting any opinion that doesn't square with their own are a worry though. One that isn't reserved for any side either K. I've seen it for myself having been banned from both "Left" and "Right" forums(I just confused the centrists

). In my time on this very site I've been accused of being both a "Leftie" and a "Right Winger", one guy even accused me of both a year apart.

When the Swedish authorities did this, it turned out to be a disaster.

Not a surprise. At all. People need to feel they have a choice. So long as they feel they have a choice, even when they actually don't, all is good with the world. You could house two thousand people a lot easier with debate and tacit support from the locals who felt they had a say, than two hundred that were dropped in without any choice on their part, real or illusory.

I'm am not sure why the Irish government believe that it will work here.

The Irish government has long been populated by both idiots and those that will buy in wholesale whatever the fashion is of the day. That was true in the 50's and it's true today.

The asylum process needs to be overhauled in its entirety so that genuine asylum seekers do not get lumped in with economic migrants, and the citizens of the country get an opportunity to be part of the debate on non-EU economic migration into Ireland and the asylum process itself.

+1

WinnyThePoo · 15-02-2019 1:13am

Kivaro wrote: »

I read recently about the characteristics of online posters who are the most vocal in the stifling of debate on various social issues. They were found to be mostly effeminate males who behave online in a manner that they would not dare to repeat in real life. Their online bravado feeds their real-life egotism but not in a healthy way. It's sad really.

Anyway, I hope the government reverses their stance of dumping disproportionately large numbers of asylum seekers in small villages across the country. When the Swedish authorities did this, it turned out to be a disaster. I'm am not sure why the Irish government believe that it will work here. The asylum process needs to be overhauled in its entirety so that genuine asylum seekers do not get lumped in with economic migrants, and the citizens of the country get an opportunity to be part of the debate on non-EU economic migration into Ireland and the asylum process itself.

Is your first paragraph self analysis?. I mean your first post on this thread was whinging about people who believe in free borders and those same people calling you a racist. Yet none of those people exist in this thread.

No one has called for open borders( cue you posting something from the sinn feinn from 1997...heres a tip... When people disagree with you... It doesn't automatically make them a sinner)

This thread is about an arson attack. Yet you've made it seemingly about yourself.

Why would anyone this island happily condone arson?.

As wibbs pointed out. Only snivveling little ****s would.

Annasopra · 15-02-2019 1:47am

Kivaro wrote: »

It obviously irritates you greatly that a discussion on the Irish haphazard asylum system is happening here.
Rational-minded people on either side of a topic do not mind having an open and frank debate, and it pleases me that it bothers you so much.

A lot of the discussion here isnt rational and certainly is not a debate. Its pretty much extreme far right hatred that won't debate under any circumstances.

Wibbs · 15-02-2019 9:26am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A lot of the discussion here isnt rational and certainly is not a debate. Its pretty much extreme far right hatred that won't debate under any circumstances.

Please point out the "extreme far right hatred" in the discussion? Do you even understand beyond the buzz words what far right hatred is? Because it seems like you cast an extremely wide net of a definition and give a very good impression of a mirror image of those who wheel out "SJW" and "Leftie" at the first whiff of anything they don't agree with.

And this is the problem with an earlier suggestion to crack down on hate crimes. Sounds like a great plan in theory, but it can often in the eyes of some become anythingIdon'tagreewith crimes.

Boggles · 15-02-2019 9:53am

Wibbs wrote: »

There are lessons to be learned, but which ones? The catchall term of "hate crimes" is a tad too Orwellian for me and how does one define the parameters of them?

Your over thinking it. It's pretty simple.

If some racist scrotum tries to burn down a hotel earmarked for refugees, that is a hate crime.

It is definitely Orwellian, a term which hilariously gets misused a lot.

It's a favorite UKIP soundbite.

Kivaro · 15-02-2019 10:20am

Wibbs wrote: »

Please point out the "extreme far right hatred" in the discussion? Do you even understand beyond the buzz words what far right hatred is? Because it seems like you cast an extremely wide net of a definition and give a very good impression of a mirror image of those who wheel out "SJW" and "Leftie" at the first whiff of anything they don't agree with.

And this is the problem with an earlier suggestion to crack down on hate crimes. Sounds like a great plan in theory, but it can often in the eyes of some become anythingIdon'tagreewith crimes.

Wibbs, you quoted a poster that many of us have on ignore (after his settled people are dumping rubbish on traveller sites comment), so his definition of "rational" may be a bit skewed. Far right is an insult that they use in an attempt to sensor us and when they use phrases like "extreme far right"? Well, that just shows the lack of comprehension with the words that they use.
The "they" above are those who refuses the rest of us the opportunity to dare question what's happening in Ireland with asylum seekers and non-EU economic migration. The insults that "they" hurl at us is a unintelligent attempt to deflect and censor.

And obviously, all of us who want a rational discussion on the topic do not condone any attempt to set fire to a building earmarked for asylum seekers, but the fact we do not say that in every post or that we do not have it on our signatures gets us labelled as extreme far right. This type of hysterics only serves one purpose and that is to push a very sizeable percentage of the electorate from the center in the political divide to the right of center. If the choice is either to vote for a party where the people have a voice in the migration discussion or be told that the topic is censored with no voice, then the majority will eventually go in the logical direction.

Wibbs · 15-02-2019 10:24am

Boggles wrote: »

Your over thinking it.

Well someone has to.

It's pretty simple.

It's really not.

If some racist scrotum tries to burn down a hotel earmarked for refugees, that is a hate crime.

Yep, that's the "pretty simple" example. If you had quoted the very next line in that post I pointed out why it's not so simplistic. Obvious guff like the arson attack, that's easy, but where does it stop? Does every negative encounter become a hate crime if it involves different ethnicities? Because that tends to be a trend and tends to lead to leverage for political purposes, over exaggeration and an increasing divide between communities.

But as night follows day any complex question is followed by a simplistic answer. Well people do tend to want simple answers, so long as they agree with their position.

It is definitely Orwellian, a term which hilariously gets misused a lot.

It's a favorite UKIP soundbite.

And the mirroring of your counterparts continues apace. So someone using "Orwellian" if they're not in agreement with your position is immediately associated with a crowd like UKIP? You might want to brush up on the definition of the word and a browse of the chap's output wouldn't go amiss either.

Boggles · 15-02-2019 10:36am

Wibbs wrote: »

Well someone has to.

It's really not.

Yep, that's the "pretty simple" example. If you had quoted the very next line in that post I pointed out why it's not so simplistic. Obvious guff like the arson attack, that's easy, but where does it stop? Does every negative encounter become a hate crime if it involves different ethnicities? Because that tends to be a trend and tends to lead to leverage for political purposes, over exaggeration and an increasing divide between communities.

But as night follows day any complex question is followed by a simplistic answer. Well people do tend to want simple answers, so long as they agree with their position.

And the mirroring of your counterparts continues apace. So someone using "Orwellian" if they're not in agreement with your position is immediately associated with a crowd like UKIP? You might want to brush up on the definition of the word and a browse of the chap's output wouldn't go amiss either.

Jesus. :pac:

To summarize.

Sure arson and racism is a bit of guff.

Criminalizing it or forms of it is a slippery slope, Orwellian, something something.

Eric just rolled in his tomb.

Wibbs · 15-02-2019 10:44am

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus. :pac:

To summarize.

Sure arson and racism is a bit of guff.

Criminalizing it or forms of it is a slippery slope, Orwellian, something something.

Eric just rolled in his tomb.

To summarise: You completely ignore the complexity of the issue, completely ignore debate points put to you and with it appears zero arrows left in your quiver after letting fly with vague associations to right wingers your "argument" could be summed up with "LOL".

Here's a thought, maybe try to debate the points? If you can?

Boggles · 15-02-2019 10:58am

Wibbs wrote: »

To summarise: You completely ignore the complexity of the issue, completely ignore debate points put to you and with it appears zero arrows left in your quiver after letting fly with vague associations to right wingers your "argument" could be summed up with "LOL".

Again there is no complexity, it's very simple. As I have stated.

If someone tries to burn down a hotel motivated by racism that is a hate crime, he/them need to be caught and made an example of.

It's not a slippery slope, it won't lead to further complex society issues down the line.

The result hopefully will get a dangerous scumbag a custodial sentence.

It's not "guff", it's serious.

Trying to minimize, redefine or misdirect is in fact Orwellian.

Wibbs wrote: »

Here's a thought, maybe try to debate the points? If you can?

You need to be more specific lad, I can't give my opinion on ranting and raving and vague scatter-gun hypotheticals.

What racist hate crime have you a problem with specifically?

A real life example would be handy if you could.

Wibbs · 15-02-2019 12:03pm

Boggles wrote: »

Again there is no complexity, it's very simple. As I have stated.

If someone tries to burn down a hotel motivated by racism that is a hate crime, he/them need to be caught and made an example of.

It's not a slippery slope, it won't lead to further complex society issues down the line.

Maybe try looking at other nations that have migrant populations of different ethnicities over generations. Then you might see - I say might, I doubt you will, because it's apparently so simple - how it has led to complex societal issues and quite the number of them. If it was so simple then why are those nations having complex social issues around ethnicity and migration?

Trying to minimize, redefine or misdirect is in fact Orwellian.

Jesus. You really do need to brush up on what words mean. Never mind the usual mindblowing lack of self awareness in your arguments.

You need to be more specific lad, I can't give my opinion on ranting and raving and vague scatter-gun hypotheticals.

Again with the unbelievable lack of self awareness. And why would anyone want to debate with you when your go to response is ignoring points made, suggesting anything you don't agree with or understand is right wing and claiming a clearly and historical complex issue is so simple.

Boggles · 15-02-2019 12:25pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe try looking at other nations that have migrant populations of different ethnicities over generations. Then you might see - I say might, I doubt you will, because it's apparently so simple - how it has led to complex societal issues and quite the number of them. If it was so simple then why are those nations having complex social issues around ethnicity and migration?

Jesus. You really do need to brush up on what words mean. Never mind the usual mindblowing lack of self awareness in your arguments.

Again with the unbelievable lack of self awareness. And why would anyone want to debate with you when your go to response is ignoring points made,

Typical soap boxer, when asked specifics resort to more soap boxing.

Wibbs wrote: »

suggesting anything you don't agree with or understand is right wing and claiming a clearly and historical complex issue is so simple.

I haven't suggested any wing left or right. That has been you son.

Hilariously ignoring you own advice. :pac:

Wibbs wrote: »

Do you even understand beyond the buzz words what far right hatred is? Because it seems like you cast an extremely wide net of a definition and give a very good impression of a mirror image of those who wheel out "SJW" and "Leftie" at the first whiff of anything they don't agree with.

Now, I asked you a very specific question, which you refused to answer, Devil, Detail, etc.

The reality is I have all ready made up mind on you 95%, your veil slipped very early on in our interactions, didn't it? We both know that don't we?

Chinasea · 15-02-2019 12:36pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe try looking at other nations that have migrant populations of different ethnicities over generations. Then you might see - I say might, because it's apparently so simple -.

So if all the counties around the should were to hold your point of view, then the Irish are all raging drunken fighting alcoholic, child abusing, fundamental paramilitary IRA members.

pumpkin4life · 15-02-2019 1:00pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

As I’ve said earlier in the thread, there are already small towns in Ireland where a good percentage of the population is made up of asylum-seekers. Apparently the populations of these towns was too big so they were disregarded, even though they are pretty darn small towns.

Does anyone know if many problems have manifested in these towns? The article on Ballaghaderreen reported some resources being stretched. I couldn’t find anything about increased crime or protests from locals in either article though. So, what will happen? What is the inevitability?

Couldn't find much on Roosky in terms of actual local response, but Grand Torino covered Wicklow Town and Rosslare, he filmed the whole thing. To say the locals are pissed is an understatement:

As for increased crime and protests, Balbriggan is turning into a ghetto.

To be honest, apart from local radio calls and Youtubers like Grand Torino/The Don, the Irish Times/RTE are refusing to cover this.

Crime is certainly up in certain areas, but down in others:

https://www.thejournal.ie/cso-recorded-crimes-september-2018-4409176-Dec2018/

Boggles · 15-02-2019 1:31pm

Oh Christ. :pac:

"everytime I talk about the migration pact my wifi goes down".

tinfoilhat.jpeg.

Comical.

pumpkin4life · 15-02-2019 1:52pm

Boggles wrote: »

Oh Christ. :pac:

"everytime I talk about the migration pact my wifi goes down".

tinfoilhat.jpeg.

Comical.

But ignore all the radio call ins and footage of locals being concerned about economic migrants being shoved into their communities.

RationalOrwellianFightTheEvilFarRightNazis.jpg

Boggles · 15-02-2019 2:06pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

But ignore all the radio call ins and footage of locals being concerned about economic migrants being shoved into their communities.

It's the first thing I clicked.

He was suggesting lizard people were hacking his phone to silence his message.

The poor lad needs at least exploratory talks with a mental health professional.

Spreading his delusional doesn't help him.

Wibbs · 15-02-2019 2:12pm

Boggles wrote: »

Typical soap boxer, when asked specifics resort to more soap boxing.

I have given specifics many times and you ignore them. You appear simply unable to debate them.

Hilariously ignoring you own advice. :pac:

This makes zero sense. It's a schoolyard tactic akin to "no, you smell LOL".

Now, I asked you a very specific question, which you refused to answer, Devil, Detail, etc.

I answered more than once. EG Does every negative encounter become a hate crime if it involves different ethnicities? Because that tends to be a trend and tends to lead to leverage for political purposes, over exaggeration and an increasing divide between communities.

To dumb it down for you. Arson in this case is an obvious crime with a racist/xenophobic background. A White guy mugs a Black guy, is that automatically a racist/xenophobic "hate crime"? How do you propose to tell the difference. Mad thing this nuance. Not exactly your speciality mind you as your "solution" to such hate crimes is to "fight them". Great, well there's a plan.

The reality is I have all ready made up mind on you 95%, your veil slipped very early on in our interactions, didn't it? We both know that don't we?

You have me at a disadvantage Sir. While you seem to know me and have expended some energy on making your mind up about me, I haven't a blind clue who you are.

And if you have something to say, grow a pair and spit it out man. Or continue to wink wink like a gossipy oulwan. Wasn't it you who used the term "mealy mouthed"? That would be irony.

Chinasea wrote: »

So if all the counties around the should were to hold your point of view, then the Irish are all raging drunken fighting alcoholic, child abusing, fundamental paramilitary IRA members.

Where in god's name did you pull this from? The same storage area as "well the Irish were welcomed as immigrants" no doubt. You're arguing different points. Like Boggles above you're doing the usual of quoting one part and leaving out the rest of the same sentence. To refresh your memory.

how it has led to complex societal issues and quite the number of them. If it was so simple then why are those nations having complex social issues around ethnicity and migration?

Do you deny multicultural societies in Europe have complex social issues around and because of multiculturalism? Simple question. *Hint* if they'd didn't we wouldn't even be having this conversation. And that's just locally.

Boggles · 15-02-2019 2:35pm

Wibbs wrote: »

To dumb it down for you.

Behave. You haven't displayed the required amount of intelligence to backup anything resembling your arrogance.

Wibbs wrote: »

Arson in this case is an obvious crime with a racist/xenophobic background. A White guy mugs a Black guy, is that automatically a racist/xenophobic "hate crime"?

No.

That was pretty easy.

Any other example of a hate crime you are stuck on?

Chinasea · 15-02-2019 2:54pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Where in god's name did you pull this from? The same storage area as "well the Irish were welcomed as immigrants"

Do you deny multicultural societies in Europe have complex social issues around and because of multiculturalism? Simple question. *Hint* if they'd didn't we wouldn't even be having this conversation. And that's just locally.

Hintaronney:, look up "Irish stero types" you know, drunken, fighting, child molesters, Irish Republican Army" begarrah, begarrah.

Conversation (and that is a stretch) is being had, due to hysterical, RACIST, bigoted, hyperbull**** running rampant like, like, like.... fire.

Kivaro · 15-02-2019 2:54pm

Jesus, Wibbs.
I don't know why you are falling for the goading and deflection tactics from him. He is deliberately trying to derail the thread. That is plain for all to see.

And for those of us who have him on ignore, every time you quote him we have to see his nonsensical quotes along with his smiley faces. There is no possibility of having a rational conversation with someone using 'lol' and smiley faces on every second post in a serious conversation.

Wibbs · 15-02-2019 2:56pm

Boggles wrote: »

Behave. You haven't displayed the required amount of intelligence to backup anything resembling your arrogance.

So far going by the various rebuttals involved the number of neurones I've fried from a bad hangover would likely be sufficient to reply.

No.

That was pretty easy.

And yet again you avoid the question. How do you propose to tell the difference? You've provided a monumentally simplistic plan to "fight" hate, by well.. fighting hate. How to learn to swim, by Boggles. Just swim. Surely it should be an equally simple task to tell the difference between an ordinary crime and a "hate crime"? You're the one proposing ramping up hate crimes in an effort to fight hate, so how?

Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

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