Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Former Coach

I see that Scotland have named their extended World Cup squad. Any idea when ours will be announced?

troyzer

Former Coach wrote: »

I see that Scotland have named their extended World Cup squad. Any idea when ours will be announced?

Wales announced theirs as well.

I imagine it'll wait until after the Pro14 final. The Welsh club season is over and Scotland only have Glasgow left.

salmocab

What sort of size squad would we expect at this stage? I presume the whole pre season is done in Ireland camp?

Buer

salmocab wrote: »

What sort of size squad would we expect at this stage? I presume the whole pre season is done in Ireland camp?

It was 45 in 2015. I'd expect similar this time.

Jump_In_Jack

troyzer wrote: »

Wales announced theirs as well.

I imagine it'll wait until after the Pro14 final. The Welsh club season is over and Scotland only have Glasgow left.

Don’t we still have a playoff for the last Heineken Cup spot, which is keeping three of the Welsh teams waiting to see if Leinster win it again this season to yield another spot for the Pro14.

As far as I know, there will either be a playoff between Ospreys and Scarlets if Leinster lose,
Or if Leinster win there will be a playoff between Scarlets and Cardiff.

Or is there a team from the Challenge Cup that will take that last spot instead?

troyzer

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Wales announced theirs as well.

I imagine it'll wait until after the Pro14 final. The Welsh club season is over and Scotland only have Glasgow left.

Don’t we still have a playoff for the last Heineken Cup spot, which is keeping three of the Welsh teams waiting to see if Leinster win it again this season to yield another spot for the Pro14.

As far as I know, there will either be a playoff between Ospreys and Scarlets if Leinster lose,
Or if Leinster win there will be a playoff between Scarlets and Cardiff.

Or is there a team from the Challenge Cup that will take that last spot instead?

Cardiff only have a chance if Leinster win AND all of the Challenge cup semi finalists qualify via league position.

So that would be Sale, Clermont, Harlequins and La Rochelle.

Sale is the only one currently not in the top six and Clermont is the only team that's safe as houses.

Bath are going to Welford road in their final game. If they get no points and Sale get something from Gloucester at home then Harlequins and Sale will finish in the top six.

La Rochelle are a bit more complicated because they have three games left and there's only five points between them and 7th.

Jump_In_Jack

troyzer wrote: »

Cardiff only have a chance if Leinster win AND all of the Challenge cup semi finalists qualify via league position.

So that would be Sale, Clermont, Harlequins and La Rochelle.

Sale is the only one currently not in the top six and Clermont is the only team that's safe as houses.

Bath are going to Welford road in their final game. If they get no points and Sale get something from Gloucester at home then Harlequins and Sale will finish in the top six.

La Rochelle are a bit more complicated because they have three games left and there's only five points between them and 7th.

Which begs the question, when will the Pro14 playoff be played?
If they have to wait until the other two leagues finish that's a bit of a balls for the teams involved to just have to wait another month or so.

I suppose it is the way it is, and not much else can be done.

Former Former

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Which begs the question, when will the Pro14 playoff be played?
If they have to wait until the other two leagues finish that's a bit of a balls for the teams involved to just have to wait another month or so.

I suppose it is the way it is, and not much else can be done.

Playoff is the 29th of May, if it happens

KBurke85

Former Former wrote: »

Playoff is the 29th of May, if it happens

Playoff is the 18th if Leinster lose the champions Cup final

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2019/05/03/clarification-on-european-play-off-game/

kingofthekong

Irish team have to figure out how to combat that linespeed England and Saracens bring, its comfortably beaten Ireland, Munster and Leinster and there doesnt seem to be any lessons learned since the six nations on how to deal with it,

Why cant Ireland employ a similar defensive intensity?

England are going to do very well in this World cup

Shefwedfan

kingofthekong wrote: »

Irish team have to figure out how to combat that linespeed England and Saracens bring, its comfortably beaten Ireland, Munster and Leinster and there doesnt seem to be any lessons learned since the six nations on how to deal with it,

Why cant Ireland employ a similar defensive intensity?

England are going to do very well in this World cup

Take Billy Vunipola out of England and Saracens and see how well they do

Leinster where not far off beating them, McGrath kicks that dead at half time and it’s a different game

Small mistake was difference

fitz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Take Billy Vunipola out of England and Saracens and see how well they do

Leinster where not far off beating them, McGrath kicks that dead at half time and it’s a different game

Small mistake was difference

It's a fair point though. We've struggled against teams who get away with living offside, and we don't do enough to make teams think twice about their rush defense.

leakyboots

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Take Billy Vunipola out of England and Saracens and see how well they do

Leinster where not far off beating them, McGrath kicks that dead at half time and it’s a different game

Small mistake was difference

Genuinely not rubbing it in here but I think you need to watch that match again. The scoreline didn't reflect Sarries dominance with and without ball in hand. Another try in their favour would have been more representative of it, they dominated Leinster for most of the match

thomond2006

leakyboots wrote: »

Genuinely not rubbing it in here but I think you need to watch that match again. The scoreline didn't reflect Sarries dominance with and without ball in hand. Another try in their favour would have been more representative of it, they dominated Leinster for most of the match

The Barritt penalty, which was incredibly dumb, was a huge let off for Leinster at the time.

They were well beaten. Next week vs Munster will be very interesting!

leakyboots

OP is right too,England are coming through at the right time with a game plan built for their players.

Clegg

leakyboots wrote: »

Genuinely not rubbing it in here but I think you need to watch that match again. The scoreline didn't reflect Sarries dominance with and without ball in hand. Another try in their favour would have been more representative of it, they dominated Leinster for most of the match

That's a very strange interpretation. The first 60 was ebb and flow. Both sides had opportunities. Saracens made the better carries and pounded away in the 22. Leinster soaked up more pressure, but when the ball broke their way they made the most of it. As has been the pattern this season. The final 20 is what killed Leinster. They shot their load in the third quarter but couldn't score and Saracens pulled away. They were the better side and deserved to win, but they weren't dominant either.

baas baa

At 60 mins Saracens should've had at least 7 points less and Leinster 5/7 more but for very uncharacteristic errors. Scores change games and that swung it massively in Saracens favour. Once Leinster had to chase the game they were stuffed, particularly with a bench short on impact. You can't let the last 20 colour your perception of the game.

No doubt Saracens were stronger in contact and the Barritt penalty in the first half was a let off but you'll have those moments anyway.

Shefwedfan

leakyboots wrote: »

Genuinely not rubbing it in here but I think you need to watch that match again. The scoreline didn't reflect Sarries dominance with and without ball in hand. Another try in their favour would have been more representative of it, they dominated Leinster for most of the match

Genuinely if you want to see it that way off you go if it makes you feel better

Personally the game was the two sides in Europe, it was said it would turn on small moments, Leinster lost those moments

A poor kick in first half let them in for a try, both teams scoring when a player down

Sarries has a good defence, they also went 10-0 down and didn’t look like doing anything for two small errors

After that it was swinging from one side to the other....SOB was not fit after that hit and should have come off, Leinster need to find back up to Cronin

Dominating Leinster most of the match, sorry but that’s a load of bulls**t

molloyjh

Yeah that game was as tight as they come for at 50-60 mins. Three big moments were the McGrath box kick, William's one handed turn over and Ringrose not passing with the overlap. If even 1 of those had gone our way the last quarter would have been seriously squeaky but for all concerned. I really dont know how Leinster could have gone 10-0 up while being dominated, but there you go.

baas baa

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah that game was as tight as they come for at 50-60 mins. Three big moments were the McGrath box kick, William's one handed turn over and Ringrose not passing with the overlap. If even 1 of those had gone our way the last quarter would have been seriously squeaky but for all concerned. I really dont know how Leinster could have gone 10-0 up while being dominated, but there you go.

We struggled in the collisions but it wasn't much different in the semi against Toulouse which is natural when your against a bigger pack. That's how Leinster play, they almost shadow box the bigger sides but manage the game better and take their chances when they come, That's how it was for large parts yesterday but errors at crucial times meant we gave up cheap scores and didn't put points on the board. The pattern of the game up to 60 mins would've been exactly how Leinster wanted it.

bilston

I'd say the difference between the two sides is Billy Vunipola. The guy is incredible. I honestly think with him in their side England could be the team to beat at the WC.

If Leinster had the 2017 Lions tour version of Sean O'Brien in their side things might have been different.

bilston

One other point, Leinster's passing wasn't great yesterday and that impacted upon their momentum. I hate to single out an individual but Luke McGrath showed yesterday that his passing just isn't where it needs to be. There was one pass to Henshaw straight off a lineout where Robbie was picking the ball off his toes, if that pass is in the bread basket Henshaw runs straight onto it and gets 5 yards over the gainline...that's a big issue IMO.

Buer

bilston wrote:

I'd say the difference between the two sides is Billy Vunipola. The guy is incredible. I honestly think with him in their side England could be the team to beat at the WC.

Yup. Best player in Europe comfortably for me. He's still only 26 too. If he keeps fit then he'll be a massive weapon for England in October.

His intercept was phenomenal. Another player does that and they're not getting close to gathering it. Not only do they not turn it over but the referee is potentially looking at a penalty against them for a deliberate knock on.

clsmooth

Buer wrote: »

Yup. Best player in Europe comfortably for me. He's still only 26 too. If he keeps fit then he'll be a massive weapon for England in October.

His intercept was phenomenal. Another player does that and they're not getting close to gathering it. Not only do they not turn it over but the referee is potentially looking at a penalty against them for a deliberate knock on.

Unbelievable take. I reckon definite penalty and a possible yellow if he hadn't regathered. Some hands on the man. England and Saracens building up some squad with the likes of Farrell, the Vunipolas and Itoje all 26-28 and Itoje even younger. Concerning. Conversely most of our key players/Lions are on the other side of their 30s such as Sexton, SOB, Kearney, Healy. Add in Earls and Best and we're going to have a huge rebuilding job on our hands once JS leaves. Even Murray has just turned 30.

Erik Shun

At this point...does Rory Best travel to the world cup if he's retired from club rugby?

irishbucsfan

Erik Shun wrote: »

At this point...does Rory Best travel to the world cup if he's retired from club rugby?

At this point it doesn't matter at all that he's retired from club rugby

bilston

Erik Shun wrote: »

At this point...does Rory Best travel to the world cup if he's retired from club rugby?

What club rugby would he or any international play between the next two weekends and the WC?

The answer is none

And therefore the conclusion is it makes no difference whatsoever that he has retired from club rugby.

Not 100% sure but from memory I have a feeling Keith Wood did the same in 2003.

Erik Shun

irishbucsfan wrote: »

At this point it doesn't matter at all that he's retired from club rugby

I'd be worried that at his age, and without any significant games for over 6 months, he could go into the tourney very cold

irishbucsfan

Erik Shun wrote: »

I'd be worried that at his age, and without any significant games for over 6 months, he could go into the tourney very cold

No provincial player will be playing for their team between now and the world cup. The camps are in June/July and the warm up games are in August

Erik Shun

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No provincial player will be playing for their team between now and the world cup. The camps are in June/July and the warm up games are in August

AIL club players being drafted into the Pro14 is a bit extreme, no?

I take your point though...not sure it's true..can't see like of Carberry, Scannell, Sweetnam, Farrell Ryan etc at Munster not playing until December..it's just not viable I think