Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

leakyboots

Ah no, Hanrahan was a very talented youngster.

Foley opting for Keatley over him and the injury-hit (and ill-advised in my opinion given how it turned out for Keats with the drop in form and injury to Tyler, Holland and noone else to take his place) move to Northampton meant he's lost a few seasons of proper development. Keatley was playing well enough to get deservedly selected by Joe at one point, his downturn in form came after that Six Nations I think and the next season was a horror show.

I wonder how many starts at 10 JJ's gotten since he left Munster and came back, it's probably not surprising that a player not playing regularly in his preferred/best position isn't performing like we'd hope. Then again it's up to him to make the best of his gametime.

Still think he's got something to offer us, last night was the first time in a long time that he played really well coming off the bench, great to see

thomond2006

Multiple coaches deemed JJH to not be the best option available. Blaming any one of them for JJ's lack of development is ridiculous.

molloyjh

JJ is like Mads. Lots of raw talent, but ultimately it doesn't translate into performances. Neither are 10s. Not really. The skills are there, but the top 2 inches are the most important in that position. Neither have shown that they have it. Compare that to Ross Byrne. Not as obviously talented, but a really good head on his shoulders have shown him to be a very good 10.

Shefwedfan

molloyjh wrote: »

JJ is like Mads. Lots of raw talent, but ultimately it doesn't translate into performances. Neither are 10s. Not really. The skills are there, but the top 2 inches are the most important in that position. Neither have shown that they have it. Compare that to Ross Byrne. Not as obviously talented, but a really good head on his shoulders have shown him to be a very good 10.

If that is the case in JJ case then why have none of these coaches switched him to 12 etc? He is still rolled out at 10 for Munster and still gets MoM awards

I disagree with Madigan, he is a 10 and a good one. I bet he sits back and curses the day Joe took over at ireland. If Joe stayed at Leinster for even 1 more season I think it would have made a huge difference. Matt o’connor Was a disaster for Leinster but especially Madigan. Nothing against Gopperth in that regard but I think Gopperth has shown since he is excellent else where on pitch

Buer

I think everything that has been shown since simply confirms that Gopperth is a better player than Madigan regardless of position. The rumour is Madigan is possibly out the door in Bristol this summer too having struggled there too.

The expectation on JJH never matched his actual performances. His IRB nomination was not good for him as it absolutely ramped up the hype. Pundits were tripping over themselves to praise him despite his showings not really being at that level. He came on once and made a big impact against Perpignan but it was made out to be the second coming. His decision making at 10 was always suspect.

When he went to Northampton, I recall people saying it was a good move for him to be starting outhalf at a big European team. He was never ahead of Myler in a full strength team nor did I ever think he was going to be.

His career hasn't hit the levels it should have due to injury and moves but it had nothing to do with his coaches failing him. He simply isn't as good a player as people had hoped. He's still young enough to get a run of games and break into the Irish squad but Rory Scannell is a very similar player who is ahead of him at Munster and can't get in the Irish squad.

Former Former

There are parallels with Madigan but he has 30 caps for Ireland. Madigan has never been able to make the leap to top-level out half but JJH is several rungs below that.

If Jackson had played in that 2012 JWC, I don't think we'd be having this discussion today.

So it's all Ulster's fault, basically.

Tommybojangles

Had a look at Madigans wikipedia there and was shocked to see he's 30. Where does the time go

The Rape of Lucretia

Tommybojangles wrote: »

Had a look at Madigans wikipedia there and was shocked to see he's 30. Where does the time go

It goes back to Leinster in the summer for 5 years of versatile 10,12,15 duties while the Green Shirts are away and in a trophy rich environment.
And will include one emotional big match Ireland recall during an injury crisis, which will go well, and bring some nice closure - "hoped this day would come and brings back great memories", "it was always my dream to get one more go representing my country", etc.

The Parish King

With the Irish 7s team now qualifying for the full World Series circuit, are there many players who’d be earmarked as future internationals who’ll cut their teeth on that circuit?

I know Adam Byrne and Rory O’Loughlin both played some 7s and have since played for Ireland (albeit one cap each), although I don’t think either were really identified as future internationals from an early age. Is there an expectation that someone like Jordan Conroy will step up to 15-a-side? He looks electric, but could just be well suited to 7s!

salmocab

The Parish King wrote: »

With the Irish 7s team now qualifying for the full World Series circuit, are there many players who’d be earmarked as future internationals who’ll cut their teeth on that circuit?

I know Adam Byrne and Rory O’Loughlin both played some 7s and have since played for Ireland (albeit one cap each), although I don’t think either were really identified as future internationals from an early age. Is there an expectation that someone like Jordan Conroy will step up to 15-a-side? He looks electric, but could just be well suited to 7s!

Think Conroy was dropped from Connacht last year.

errlloyd

Tadgh Beirne playing sevens ended up being very fortunate. It meant he couldn't qualify for Wales.

Interested Observer

errlloyd wrote: »

Tadgh Beirne playing sevens ended up being very fortunate. It meant he couldn't qualify for Wales.

He was only there for 2 seasons anyway.

The Lost Sheep

The Parish King wrote: »

With the Irish 7s team now qualifying for the full World Series circuit, are there many players who’d be earmarked as future internationals who’ll cut their teeth on that circuit?

I know Adam Byrne and Rory O’Loughlin both played some 7s and have since played for Ireland (albeit one cap each), although I don’t think either were really identified as future internationals from an early age. Is there an expectation that someone like Jordan Conroy will step up to 15-a-side? He looks electric, but could just be well suited to 7s!

Byrne and ROL were in irish set ups at all levels and will certainly been identified as future internationals with their age grade record etc
Conroy wont be playing 15s. Connacht looked at him and didnt really work out there

munsterlegend

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Byrne and ROL were in irish set ups at all levels and will certainly been identified as future internationals with their age grade record etc
Conroy wont be playing 15s. Connacht looked at him and didnt really work out there

Not enough room for Conroy in 15 man game to use his pace. Also defensively he would be targeted.

errlloyd

Interested Observer wrote: »

errlloyd wrote: »

Tadgh Beirne playing sevens ended up being very fortunate. It meant he couldn't qualify for Wales.

He was only there for 2 seasons anyway.

Yeah, but he had no incentive to stay a third. And the Welsh system had to treat him as a foreign player.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

MoM in Europe one week, the next week I don't think he even made the bench?

JJ did make the bench for the away Castres game. But, adding context, Carbery was injured for the home game and returned for the away game. Following that Castres game, Carbery has put a great run of form together. He's by far and away our first choice 10.

Or are you suggesting JJ should be the starting 10 ahead of Carbery?

Dubinusa

Just thinking that Sexton is in the midst of a bad run of injury.
He may not make the CC semi final.
His health and fitness issues don't bode well for the rwc.
I reckon the same with Henshaw? Although he's close to returning, he's missing a lot of the season.
I hope they're fit for the rwc!

Richie_Rich89

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just thinking that Sexton is in the midst of a bad run of injury.
He may not make the CC semi final.
His health and fitness issues don't bode well for the rwc.
I reckon the same with Henshaw? Although he's close to returning, he's missing a lot of the season.
I hope they're fit for the rwc!

Wonder who'd go as backup 12 to Aki if Henshaw was injured at the time. McCloskey? Chris Farrell out of position? Maybe Tom Farrell? O'Loughlin might be an outside bet, depending on how many high-level games he gets at 12.

leakyboots

Ringrose to 12 and Farrell to 13? Or vice versa. Tom Farrell or maybe Rory Scannell could be in with a shout of backup too

Mr Tickle

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Wonder who'd go as backup 12 to Aki if Henshaw was injured at the time. McCloskey? Chris Farrell out of position? Maybe Tom Farrell? O'Loughlin might be an outside bet, depending on how many high-level games he gets at 12.

Well as it stands (unless henshaw at 15 is still considered. Lets not go into it) one of the main 4 (Henshaw, Chris F, Aki and Ringrose) will probably be left out. There's enough flexibility in that group to cover both positions so an injury means the 4th guy gets called up.

After that i'd think Tom F, Rory Scannell and Will Addison are next in line.

AbusesToilets

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Wonder who'd go as backup 12 to Aki if Henshaw was injured at the time. McCloskey? Chris Farrell out of position? Maybe Tom Farrell? O'Loughlin might be an outside bet, depending on how many high-level games he gets at 12.

Madigan, obviously

Erik Shun

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Madigan, obviously

JJ Hanrahan is the only choice, can play 10 too I hear

Clegg

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Well as it stands (unless henshaw at 15 is still considered. Lets not go into it) one of the main 4 (Henshaw, Chris F, Aki and Ringrose) will probably be left out. There's enough flexibility in that group to cover both positions so an injury means the 4th guy gets called up.

After that i'd think Tom F, Rory Scannell and Will Addison are next in line.

Will Addison is out for the rest of the season with a back injury. Seeing as he's missed two months with it who knows when he'll actually return.

AbusesToilets

Erik Shun wrote: »

JJ Hanrahan is the only choice, can play 10 too I hear

But can he cover scrumhalf?

Richie_Rich89

leakyboots wrote: »

Ringrose to 12 and Farrell to 13? Or vice versa. Tom Farrell or maybe Rory Scannell could be in with a shout of backup too

Scannell's a bit on the slow side, but it'd be interesting to see how he'd get on in a set-up with better backs coaching. When he played fullback, Ireland always made better use of Zebo's playmaking ability than Munster did.

jacothelad

AbusesToilets wrote: »

But can he cover scrumhalf?

He'd probably be as good there as he is elsewhere....;)

AbusesToilets

jacothelad wrote: »

He'd probably be as good there as he is elsewhere....;)

savage

Christy42

Clegg wrote: »

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Well as it stands (unless henshaw at 15 is still considered. Lets not go into it) one of the main 4 (Henshaw, Chris F, Aki and Ringrose) will probably be left out. There's enough flexibility in that group to cover both positions so an injury means the 4th guy gets called up.

After that i'd think Tom F, Rory Scannell and Will Addison are next in line.

Will Addison is out for the rest of the season with a back injury. Seeing as he's missed two months with it who knows when he'll actually return.

I feel like as we have added more depth we just get more injuries in world cup years.

Shefwedfan

jacothelad wrote: »

He'd probably be as good there as he is elsewhere....;)

Get's paid £500k per year so I doubt he cares what anyone in Ireland thinks :P:P

Mr Tickle

Christy42 wrote: »

I feel like as we have added more depth we just get more injuries in world cup years.

is it just that we have more players worth caring about? :pac:

(in terms of availability. not on anything resembling a human level)