Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

arsebiscuits1

salmocab wrote: »

Wonder how big the traveling party is.

I'd imagine in the region of 50-60

You've 31 players.

Then you've another 19 in the management https://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/men/management/

Then there is likely to be another few admins/ contractors or media/ video guys given the scale and importance.

Dan Sheridan the Inpho photographer seems to be their official photographer too. He'll be going too

clsmooth

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I'd imagine in the region of 50-60

You've 31 players.

Then you've another 19 in the management https://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/men/management/

Then there is likely to be another few admins/ contractors or media/ video guys given the scale and importance.

Dan Sheridan the Inpho photographer seems to be their official photographer too. He'll be going too

Have a look at Ciaran Cosgrave’s headshot if you want to see what CJ Stander will look like in about 5 years

Jump_In_Jack

Seán O'Brien was in contact with the players and his prediction of the make-up of the Irish back-row to face Scotland is:
"I think we’ll see a few surprises in the starting team. I think Pete [O’Mahony] will start at 7, Jack [Conan at 6] and CJ [Stander at 8]."

I would think those three could start together, but I would have thought more likely that it would be Stander at 6 and Conan at 8, but who knows.

The Rape of Lucretia

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Seán O'Brien was in contact with the players and his prediction of the make-up of the Irish back-row to face Scotland is:
"I think we’ll see a few surprises in the starting team. I think Pete [O’Mahony] will start at 7, Jack [Conan at 6] and CJ [Stander at 8]."

I would think those three could start together, but I would have thought more likely that it would be Stander at 6 and Conan at 8, but who knows.

As the only genuine 7, Joe will know VDF cannot be risked in the Scotland game. POM, being now a bencher for the main games, could do with a bit of 7 practice incase something should happen to VDF.

The likely team for Scotland, including an insight into Joe's likely rationale, is as follows :

Conway - useful game time at 15 could payoff in the long run. Bobster is too important to risk in a game of this importance.
Stockdale - a game that should suit him, and a chance to rectify some of the misfires in the warmups
Ringrose - despite rumours of its demise, there is plenty of life in the Henshaw/Ringrose combo. Ringsie will move to the wing to replace Larmour after 60. The openly flagged rumour of Ringrose as benching for the main games is true however.
Henshaw - as above. And will get some time with Aki for the last 20.
Larmour - a bit of a passenger at this stage, and with Conway the more likely replacement if Earls has fitness issues, this is really a case of taking one for the team from Larmour.
Carbery - needs time with Murray, and in a fairly serious game. The longer Sexton stays sitting down in the stand, the better - his useful rugby minutes left to him at this stage of his career need to be rationed very carefully
Murray - build on the positives seen against Wales, time with Carbles, and develop game commanding in a Sexton free scenario should it be needed. Will come off the bench for 20 minutes in whichever of the other games Sexton starts just for a bit of a run out.
Healy - mainly to test a Best free front row
Scannell - chance to play first choice rugby in case Best not lasting the pace of the tournament even if only in 60 minute stints. Scannell could chalk up a lot of game minutes this world cup
Furlong - a calculated gamble this from Joe, but then he does calculate very well. Really there to nurse Scannell along. Will come off after 50 when the game is safely won or lost as needs be.
Kleyn - the overwhelming success of the warm up games, and on a fast track development programme in System Joe. Starting this game in no way suggests he is unlikely to be the bench man for the main games.
Henderson - Experience alongside Kleyn, and Ryan simply too important to the greater goal to chance for this game.
Stander - cement his position and form as a 6 in prep for the quarter, he can sit out the next 3 games to be in top form. Rudds will play a lot in the next 3
O'Mahony - still an important player, and flexibility from the bench will still make him critical to the teams progress even if no longer a prime starter
Conan - now part of the first choice back row, and needs every minute he can get in real-world test atmosphere.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

As the only genuine 7, Joe will know VDF cannot be risked in the Scotland game. POM, being now a bencher for the main games, could do with a bit of 7 practice incase something should happen to VDF.

The likely team for Scotland, including an insight into Joe's likely rationale, is as follows :

Conway - useful game time at 15 could payoff in the long run. Bobster is too important to risk in a game of this importance.
Stockdale - a game that should suit him, and a chance to rectify some of the misfires in the warmups
Ringrose - despite rumours of its demise, there is plenty of life in the Henshaw/Ringrose combo. Ringsie will move to the wing to replace Larmour after 60. The openly flagged rumour of Ringrose as benching for the main games is true however.
Henshaw - as above. And will get some time with Aki for the last 20.
Larmour - a bit of a passenger at this stage, and with Conway the more likely replacement if Earls has fitness issues, this is really a case of taking one for the team from Larmour.
Carbery - needs time with Murray, and in a fairly serious game
Murray - build on the positives seen against Wales, time with Carbles, and develop game commanding in a Sexton free scenario should it be needed. Will come off the bench for 20 minutes in whichever of the other games Sexton starts just for a bit of a run out.
Healy - mainly to test a Best free front row
Scannell - chance to play first choice rugby in case Best not lasting the pace of the tournament even if only in 60 minute stints. Scannell could chalk up a lot of game minutes this world cup
Furlong - a calculated gamble this from Joe, but then he does calculate very well. Really there to nurse Scannell along. Will come off after 50 when the game is safely won or lost as needs be.
Kleyn - the overwhelming success of the warm up games, and on a fast track development programme in System Joe. Starting this game in no way suggests he is unlikely to be the bench man for the main games.
Henderson - Experience alongside Kleyn, and Ryan simply too important to the greater goal to chance for this game.
Stander - cement his position and form as a 6 in prep for the quarter, he can sit out the next 3 games to be in top form. Rudds will play a lot in the next 3
O'Mahony - still an important player, and flexibility from the bench will still make him critical to the teams progress even if no longer a prime starter
Conan - now part of the first choice back row, and needs every minute he can get in real-world test atmosphere.

We will be putting out our first choice team whereever possible for the Scotland game

Shefwedfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

As the only genuine 7, Joe will know VDF cannot be risked in the Scotland game. POM, being now a bencher for the main games, could do with a bit of 7 practice incase something should happen to VDF.

The likely team for Scotland, including an insight into Joe's likely rationale, is as follows :

Conway - useful game time at 15 could payoff in the long run. Bobster is too important to risk in a game of this importance.
Stockdale - a game that should suit him, and a chance to rectify some of the misfires in the warmups
Ringrose - despite rumours of its demise, there is plenty of life in the Henshaw/Ringrose combo. Ringsie will move to the wing to replace Larmour after 60. The openly flagged rumour of Ringrose as benching for the main games is true however.
Henshaw - as above. And will get some time with Aki for the last 20.
Larmour - a bit of a passenger at this stage, and with Conway the more likely replacement if Earls has fitness issues, this is really a case of taking one for the team from Larmour.
Carbery - needs time with Murray, and in a fairly serious game. The longer Sexton stays sitting down in the stand, the better - his useful rugby minutes left to him at this stage of his career need to be rationed very carefully
Murray - build on the positives seen against Wales, time with Carbles, and develop game commanding in a Sexton free scenario should it be needed. Will come off the bench for 20 minutes in whichever of the other games Sexton starts just for a bit of a run out.
Healy - mainly to test a Best free front row
Scannell - chance to play first choice rugby in case Best not lasting the pace of the tournament even if only in 60 minute stints. Scannell could chalk up a lot of game minutes this world cup
Furlong - a calculated gamble this from Joe, but then he does calculate very well. Really there to nurse Scannell along. Will come off after 50 when the game is safely won or lost as needs be.
Kleyn - the overwhelming success of the warm up games, and on a fast track development programme in System Joe. Starting this game in no way suggests he is unlikely to be the bench man for the main games.
Henderson - Experience alongside Kleyn, and Ryan simply too important to the greater goal to chance for this game.
Stander - cement his position and form as a 6 in prep for the quarter, he can sit out the next 3 games to be in top form. Rudds will play a lot in the next 3
O'Mahony - still an important player, and flexibility from the bench will still make him critical to the teams progress even if no longer a prime starter
Conan - now part of the first choice back row, and needs every minute he can get in real-world test atmosphere.

I am not sure if you are been serious or just messing.....

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not sure if you are been serious or just messing.....

Personally I'd be keeping Sexton fresh until the final. Maybe even just the second half.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally I'd be keeping Sexton fresh until the final. Maybe even just the second half.

Don't let him see the light of day until the bus with the cup reaches the GPO?

Dog Botherer

I’m sorry, but “Carbles” has me absolutely destroyed.

Chapeau Mr T.R.O.L.

Shefwedfan

Are we not bored yet with the Sexton comments?

If you can’t get behind the team then why are you even watching it?

Irish fans seem to be the only fans in the World that want a player to fail just do they can push for another player to start.....they all wear green....maybe try remember that for next few weeks

Dog Botherer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Personally I'd be keeping Sexton fresh until the final. Maybe even just the second half.

Why even risk him? He’s got plenty of years left in the tank, 2023 will be his peak. It’d be madness for them to play him in such a nothing game.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are we not bored yet with the Sexton comments?

If you can’t get behind the team then why are you even watching it?

Irish fans seem to be the only fans in the World that want a player to fail just do they can push for another player to start.....they all wear green....maybe try remember that for next few weeks

This seems pretty hypocritical to me; you're well able to criticise players as well when you want to. But if you've turned over a new leaf, then fair play.

arsebiscuits1

Any notion that we wouldn't be going full whack for the first game I think is incorrect.

We're in a much better position this time around. 2015 we had our most physical test match in years and then we had to get up again a week later.

We have 4 full weeks between Scotland and whatever Quarter final we land in (assuming we do... but very likely)

Start at 100 miles an hour. First team out. Blitz Scotland and send a message. If someone drops, they have a month to recover or they can be replaced and their replacement has a full month with the squad to bed back in and stake their claim.

Taking Carbery as an example. Sustained ligament damage but is back fit after just over 4 weeks. It's a good window to recover from the more minor things.

Mr Tickle

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Any notion that we wouldn't be going full whack for the first game I think is incorrect.

We're in a much better position this time around. 2015 we had our most physical test match in years and then we had to get up again a week later.

We have 4 full weeks between Scotland and whatever Quarter final we land in (assuming we do... but very likely)

Start at 100 miles an hour. First team out. Blitz Scotland and send a message. If someone drops, they have a month to recover or they can be replaced and their replacement has a full month with the squad to bed back in and stake their claim.

Taking Carbery as an example. Sustained ligament damage but is back fit after just over 4 weeks. It's a good window to recover from the more minor things.

The one that really worries me is the Samoa game. I saw a bit of them vs Australia at the weekend. They were still in touch after an hour or so. I think it was 23-15 or something. Good enough that we'll have a few 1st team guys in there (particularly with the small squad) and big enough that someone is surely going to get hurt.

Sabre0001

I agree with the wise T.R.O.L., that Kearney shouldn't be risked. But I've heard from a reliable source that Joe has pulled a fast one. The "squad" that's been published isn't the one that was submitted to World Rugby. Toner will be there and will feature at 15 for unimportant games like Scotland and Japan, maybe even the QF, to keep Kearney fresh. It's genius really; how are you going to beat a man who towers at 8ft 3 to a garryowen?!

Interested Observer

Mr Tickle wrote: »

The one that really worries me is the Samoa game. I saw a bit of them vs Australia at the weekend. They were still in touch after an hour or so. I think it was 23-15 or something. Good enough that we'll have a few 1st team guys in there (particularly with the small squad) and big enough that someone is surely going to get hurt.

We're massive underestimating this game imo. I think we'll win it but it's going to be very tough, could see guys like Ruddock and (alas) Kleyn in for the physical battle. And tbh with the QF approaching I'm glad we have a decent test rather than just two walkovers.

Mr Tickle

Interested Observer wrote: »

We're massive underestimating this game imo. I think we'll win it but it's going to be very tough, could see guys like Ruddock and (alas) Kleyn in for the physical battle. And tbh with the QF approaching I'm glad we have a decent test rather than just two walkovers.

Yeah i agree about having a decent test being beneficial. Can't help but think that i'd rather Japan that week though. A decent challenge but less smashy

stephen_n

Interested Observer wrote: »

We're massive underestimating this game imo. I think we'll win it but it's going to be very tough, could see guys like Ruddock and (alas) Kleyn in for the physical battle. And tbh with the QF approaching I'm glad we have a decent test rather than just two walkovers.

This also the Samoa team that got beaten by the USA and Fiji in there first two warm up games. The biggest risk in that game is injuries. I can’t see Samoa targeting us a possible win, so doubt very much they will go full strength against us.

Interested Observer

Interested Observer wrote: »

We're massive underestimating this game imo. I think we'll win it but it's going to be very tough, could see guys like Ruddock and (alas) Kleyn in for the physical battle. And tbh with the QF approaching I'm glad we have a decent test rather than just two walkovers.

We are massively underestimating a team that was 4th in the Pacific nations cup behind rugby powerhouse USA?

Jesus lads.

Last time we played them was 2013 when they were half decent. They beat Italy that year. They've gone dramatically downhill since then and are currently 16th in the World.

We still beat them 40 - 9, here are the highlights:

Rigor Mortis

Mr Tickle wrote: »

The one that really worries me is the Samoa game. I saw a bit of them vs Australia at the weekend. They were still in touch after an hour or so. I think it was 23-15 or something. Good enough that we'll have a few 1st team guys in there (particularly with the small squad) and big enough that someone is surely going to get hurt.

The nature of Rugby is frequently that teams are in touch for the first half or even the first 60. Superior fitness and or cards for repeated foul play (that kept the score down before) kick in at that point and the better team normally pulls well ahead.

Even when we were at our worst in the 1990s we were normally competitive for 60 mins before being dumped on in the last 20.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

We are massively underestimating a team that was 4th in the Pacific nations cup behind rugby powerhouse USA?

Jesus lads.

Last time we played them was 2013 when they were half decent. They beat Italy that year. They've gone dramatically downhill since then and are currently 16th in the World.

We still beat them 40 - 9, here are the highlights:

Jack McGrath motm. wa wa wee wa

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

This seems pretty hypocritical to me; you're well able to criticise players as well when you want to. But if you've turned over a new leaf, then fair play.

Having a discussion about the merits of a player before the squad is announced is different to childish comments about members of the squad....


The squad is picked. It should not matter now if XYZ got picked over ABC....everyone should be behind the Irish squad....simple as that....


Well thats my opinion, disagree if you want

Mr Tickle

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

The nature of Rugby is frequently that teams are in touch for the first half or even the first 60. Superior fitness and or cards for repeated foul play (that kept the score down before) kick in at that point and the better team normally pulls well ahead.

Even when we were at our worst in the 1990s we were normally competitive for 60 mins before being dumped on in the last 20.

That's fair. I'm not concerned about the result in the end really. More just that it's not going to be a walk over and guys will have to be putting in the work, carrying and clearing rucks. Particularly since our game plan involves going through more often than around. They put in big hits. We just have to hope that nobody gets broken.

Shefwedfan

My team for Scotland - well my guess

Healy Best Furlong - Kilcoyne would really be my choice on form but I think we will go with a familiar front row and Kilcoyne off bench
Hendo Ryan
Stander VDF Conan
Murray Sexton
Conway Henshaw Aki Stockdale - Earls I think is carrying a knock, same centre partnership as Wales
Kearney

Bench - Kilcoyne, Cronin, Porter, Beirne, McGrath, Carbery, Ringrose

Scannell to start v Japan. Cronin and Kilcoyne off bench best choice. Beirne to cover a number of positions. Ringrose as well to cover a number of position and start v Japan

Before people lose it, Best will not be able to do 2 games so POM to start and captain v Japan. I think Ireland will use the line out v Japan and best to have POM fit and ready to go.....

If Earls plays then drop Conway and he starts v Japan. Conway starts then hopefully Earls to start v Japan. Larmour for Japan as I think we will need his speed.

Just an guess but I would expect to see majority of squad to play over 2 games

Mr Tickle

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My team for Scotland - well my guess

Healy Best Furlong - Kilcoyne would really be my choice on form but I think we will go with a familiar front row and Kilcoyne off bench
Hendo Ryan
Stander VDF Conan
Murray Sexton
Conway Henshaw Aki Stockdale - Earls I think is carrying a knock, same centre partnership as Wales
Kearney

Bench - Kilcoyne, Cronin, Porter, Beirne, McGrath, Carbery, Ringrose

Scannell to start v Japan. Cronin and Kilcoyne off bench best choice. Beirne to cover a number of positions. Ringrose as well to cover a number of position and start v Japan

Before people lose it, Best will not be able to do 2 games so POM to start and captain v Japan. I think Ireland will use the line out v Japan and best to have POM fit and ready to go.....

If Earls plays then drop Conway and he starts v Japan. Conway starts then hopefully Earls to start v Japan. Larmour for Japan as I think we will need his speed.

Just an guess but I would expect to see majority of squad to play over 2 games

You're probably not far off. You're missing one from your bench though. Either Kleyn or POM depending on what you have Beirne doing.
I'd have POM involved against Scotland either way. Whether that's off the bench or starting i'm less sure.

Jump_In_Jack

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My team for Scotland - well my guess

Healy Best Furlong - Kilcoyne would really be my choice on form but I think we will go with a familiar front row and Kilcoyne off bench
Hendo Ryan
Stander VDF Conan
Murray Sexton
Conway Henshaw Aki Stockdale - Earls I think is carrying a knock, same centre partnership as Wales
Kearney

Bench - Kilcoyne, Cronin, Porter, Beirne, McGrath, Carbery, Ringrose

Scannell to start v Japan. Cronin and Kilcoyne off bench best choice. Beirne to cover a number of positions. Ringrose as well to cover a number of position and start v Japan

Before people lose it, Best will not be able to do 2 games so POM to start and captain v Japan. I think Ireland will use the line out v Japan and best to have POM fit and ready to go.....

If Earls plays then drop Conway and he starts v Japan. Conway starts then hopefully Earls to start v Japan. Larmour for Japan as I think we will need his speed.

Just an guess but I would expect to see majority of squad to play over 2 games

Beirne can cover multiple positions, but that's no reason not to select anoth back 5 forward on the bench! :pac:

Shefwedfan

Mr Tickle wrote: »

You're probably not far off. You're missing one from your bench though. Either Kleyn or POM depending on what you have Beirne doing.
I'd have POM involved against Scotland either way. Whether that's off the bench or starting i'm less sure.

Sorry I knew I missed someone.....


POM is a starter, I don't think he is an impact sub player. So Ruddock on bench. He done well against Wales


Beirne can cover second row.



At the end of day whoever isnt in match day squad 1 will probably start in match day squad 2. Kleyn just looked behind on fitness compared to Ryan/Hendo so I think an extra week and then he would cause huge damage v Japan.



Also with the front row probably swapping v Japan he will be playing with a familiar setup....I would expect a full Munster front row v Japan with Cronin again off bench

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At the end of day whoever isnt in match day squad 1 will probably start in match day squad 2. Kleyn just looked behind on fitness compared to Ryan/Hendo so I think an extra week and then he would cause huge damage v Japan.

Also with the front row probably swapping v Japan he will be playing with a familiar setup....I would expect a full Munster front row v Japan with Cronin again off bench

I'm really not expecting that many changes for Japan at all, particularly as Russia is the following game. I'd expect it to be closer to 3-4 (non-injury enforced) changes, max.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Having a discussion about the merits of a player before the squad is announced is different to childish comments about members of the squad....

The squad is picked. It should not matter now if XYZ got picked over ABC....everyone should be behind the Irish squad....simple as that....

Well thats my opinion, disagree if you want

Fair enough. Personally, I don't think posts like the following amounts to getting behind the squad, but there you go.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A back row of Stander, Pom, Vdf would be murdered by SA....

Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

I'm really not expecting that many changes for Japan at all, particularly as Russia is the following game. I'd expect it to be closer to 3-4 (non-injury enforced) changes, max.

If we play well against Scotland, I would anticipate zero non-enforced changes for Japan.