ESB eCars

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864943#Comment_121864943

Ecars have always said that AC chargers aren't economical

If this is true then get why not get rid of AC charging altogether and replace with DC chargers? A dual 22kW AC site would logistically be able to provide at least 44kW on DC.

I know they have done this in a few locations such as peoples park in Limerick but why not all of them

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865035#Comment_121865035

True, they have improved and continue to improve, but are still quite capable of messing things up in silly ways

Regarding the public AC charging, this is the only specification I've ever been able to find from ESBN

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/docs/default-source/publications/e02987584_esb-networks-guidance-to-ev-charge-point-operators_accessible_v02.pdf?sfvrsn=6b4c0051_7

It basically spells out two methods, one meter per charger and one centralised meter for a group of chargers

The first method is marked as the preferred one, but the second method is also acceptable for public streets

There does seem to be a limit of 9 single phase chargers and 49kVA MIC, but that's still 5kW per charger which is enough for an overnight charge. And two of these installations would likely supply a whole street

There's additional requirements for underground cabling and micro pillars installed by ESBN which probably raises the installation costs per kW of capacity, but I can't see how it isn't more competitive on a cost per charger basis

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865233#Comment_121865233

Capacity restrictions and cost.

digging the road/path upgrading cable, upgrading transformer, adding aDC charger are all expensive

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865233#Comment_121865233

Well that seems to be the general strategy, they aren't installing any new AC chargers in the short term

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864933#Comment_121864933

You seem more interested in semantics than the discussion @ted1.

Here is the quote. Its a clear signal of intent, if not a promise, but I did not posting in the EV forum to have a discussion about semantics.

Why do you think Mr Byrne voluntarily gave that quote to the press, and why do you think nothing has happened since?

"We purchase our electricity in blocks, so as the wholesale price has come down, and as we roll over our contracts and buy our next blocks of energy, then we hope to avail of those lower wholesale costs and pass those savings on to consumers" John Byrne, head of e-cars at ESB, Irish Times 16/08/23

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865300#Comment_121865300

It's not expensive, it's an investment.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865550#Comment_121865550

It’s a bad investment, they are going for hubs. AC chargers were put in where people spend hours. Which isn’t the location you want fast chargers

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121861065#Comment_121861065

Good news about 4 x 200KW DC chargers (8 cars at 100KW each), but I would have thought somewhere like Blanchardstown shopping centre (and most large shopping centres in general) would benefit more from multiple lower speed DC chargers, given that people would likely be in the centre for a few hours?

8 x 100KW units (16 cars at 50KW each), or even more so, 16 x 50KW units (32 cars at 25KW each) would be better IMO? If I'm in the centre, browsing a few shops, getting some food, or going to the cinema, then I'll probably be there for a couple of hours anyway.

The spot that these newly installed chargers are in, it's 5mins walk to the centre, and 5mins back, so they're really only suitable for before or after shopping, to be used as regular ultrafast chargers. You can't really leave the car there and go do your business, unless you're just popping in to one shop to get something specifically....

No idea on the logistics or how much cost difference it would be for 16 x 50KW units compared with 4 x 200KW units though....

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866350#Comment_121866350

These are chargers by a charging provider at a place that has nearby facilities such as coffee and toilets. If the centre want to encourage dwell time they can install their own lower capacity chargers

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866350#Comment_121866350

100kW is perfect for a quick poo break and grabbing a takeaway coffee, 30 minutes adds up to 50kWh to the battery as well

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865745#Comment_121865745

Hubs with 100kW+ charge speeds, yes, a 50kW charger would do in a city, not everybody wants to go to a service station to top up

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866563#Comment_121866563

The cost of putting in a 50kw where a 7KW one is quite expensive per kWh compared to putting in a hub which is where their focus is on

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866414#Comment_121866414

Don't really understand what you mean by this. It's the retail park's land, so it's them who are essentially having them installed. Why have they opted for 4 x 200KW units, which doesn't encourage anyone to use their shops? And is thoroughly inconvenient for anyone who is going to be spending 1hr+ in the centre? Why have they not had lower capacity chargers installed? 200KW units means most people will come, plug in and be charging for no more than 30mins.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866539#Comment_121866539

Yes I know, which is great for a motorway services station, or on a primary route. Kind of pointless for a large retail centre, where most people are going to be spending 2hrs+.

Redfox25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866631#Comment_121866631

I think its more in giving up 8 parking slots rather than giving away 30 odd for slower charging cars.

I know the 30 slower charging cars would likely be in the shops but maybe not in the shops.

Easier to justify 8 slots gone and meet some council or other target for EV chargers.

Ideally, there should be 8 fast and 30 to 50 slow 7kw or better yet, 11kw chargers available.

the_amazing_raisin

There's also 4 AC spaces nearby from another provider, plus another 6 being installed at KFC, so Blanch has a pretty good mix of charging

I imagine the logic of putting a group of HPC units there was that it would serve both the town and the N3 running past the centre

Personally however if I was driving past and needed a charge I might take the hub going in at Maxol instead to avoid the horrors of Blanchardstown traffic. It'll be interesting to see where the customers end up

I think the Maxol is only accessible heading into Dublin though, so it's good there's multiple options

Speaking of Blanch, is the old 150+50 hub going to be removed? They could easily enough turn that into a group of 4 50kW spaces and that would cover all the possibilities

wassie

2019-2023: Thread bitches endlessly about ESB eCars inability to design & install proper charging hubs.

2024: Thread discusses if AC chargers should be installed instead of 200kW hub

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866929#Comment_121866929

Okay, I'll confess I got a good laugh out of that 😂

We're not easily pleased are we?

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866929#Comment_121866929

Almost as if different locations are better suited to different types of chargers/speeds.....

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866741#Comment_121866741

The Maxol is only directly accessible eastbound, but going westbound there's a flyover bridge a few hundred metres once you pass Maxol, so it's basically a 2 minute detour. Then a few minutes detour going back eastbound to the next bridge to do a u-turn. If i was going to be travelling on the M3, I'd 100% be using Maxol instead of these chargers.

If I was using the shopping centre, it's much of a muchness, as I'll have to wait with the car either way.

If they had been lower speed, I could leave the car on charge and actually go and do whatever I came to Blanch to do (assuming there's an overstay fee).

As you say, likely to get lots of use from people in the town and apartments nearby, so with only 8 spots it will be busy. Hopefully there's a large overstay fee, although I can't see any mention of one on the ESB app...

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121863467#Comment_121863467

Welcome to living on an Island

innrain

I think it is a very accessible location from both N3 and M50 traffic. West bound leave N3 at J3 keep left and you're there. Eastbound again J3, take right at the Liberty building roundabout and you're there. Not as easy as a service station but better selection of amenities. For locals allows for a quick dip in a shop like dunnes or woodies. We need to accept that it is one of the best hubs in Dublin now, and once the Carrickmines one is also connected, M50 would be nicely covered. I could moan about their prices but it is fair to let that go for the day and praise them for a job pretty well done.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867379#Comment_121867379

23% of that from the UK business

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866631#Comment_121866631

There's a big difference between the eCars model of we're a charging network, we need to find a site host that we can pay rent to host our charging infrastructure and sell electrons vs the business model of a retail park that wants to offer charging services as a way to entice customers to the site.

eCars are in the business of selling charging services, not running infrastructure to incentivise shoppers.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866741#Comment_121866741

The plans for redevelopment of Blanch involve turning the old charging location into the taxi area. It could make sense to leave chargers in the area for taxi use.

Flinty997

It makes sense to have a mix of both fast and slow changers. I can see reasons where both are useful.

I'm rarely in the center long enough for a slow charger to be useful. But I've used a fast charger there on a very rare occasion for a short top up. But tbh never really needed to charge.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867455#Comment_121867455

I think the biggest issue with the area is the traffic, the whole shopping centre is often a complete jam with tailbacks all the way to the dual carriageway

It can be pretty frustrating to have to spend an extra 15 min trying to get to the charger

Otherwise it's a good location, and I've no doubt it'll see plenty of use, it just has a few drawbacks

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868521#Comment_121868521

Yeah that would be ideal for taxi chargers with the rank nearby

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868707#Comment_121868707

One thing that's slightly frustrating is how they close off the AC chargers after the shops close. Could be handy to grab a slow charge when heading to the cinema

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866414#Comment_121866414

Exactly. Its not a binary argument of one or the other. Blanch Shppping Centre could easily install something like what they have done in the multi-storey car park at Kildare Village where there are 14 x 7kW chargers. (photo from plugshare)

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869003#Comment_121869003

I used to think the poor planning and layout could be fixed by doing it better.

I think traffic has increased so much now that it didn't really matter.

I rarely use a public charger. Never really needed to use one after I had a home charger installed. But I've used Blanch a handful of times not because I needed to but I had time to kill and wanted to test how they worked. I'm never in Blanch for hours so wouldn't have a need for a slow one. It's handy to have a fast one near by in case you need faster charge than home charging for some reason.

If you were travelling long distance to Blanch or passing by it, on a long journey then perhaps you'd get more use from them. It's best they are besides facilities. Toilet, food drink, shops. Makes sense.

Sometimes I just top up the battery because I happen to be near a fast charger and waiting for something. I've been at events at the NAC and popped back to Blanch for a quick top up. Things like that a fast charger is handy.