ESB eCars

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653853#Comment_121653853

Yes but you have an OEM subsidised deal. That is not available to anyone. It's the same as me telling you to charge your polestar at tesla sandyford.

Also it's c/kWh not c/kW.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653827#Comment_121653827

Difference there is we're not trying to move the general population to using supermarkets but we are trying to get 1m EVs on our roads by 2030. A target we, as a nation, are most likely going to miss, I accept that of course but charging up to 68c/kWh isn't going to improve that situation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653850#Comment_121653850

If it were overpriced you'd see others like easygo or ionity or circle k undercutting them

A bit like Tesla do? Or are you suggesting that superchargers are operating at a loss?

60c+ in the rest of Europe yeah? You'd do well to check your facts before posting in future

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653942#Comment_121653942

The name there would imply it's some sort of community sourced/funded unit so may be discounted. But one AC charger isnt related to the DC based discussion. Sure there's cheap and even free public AC charging here too. We go on holidays to france quite often and the shell recharge at the local Lidl was 55c. French Ionity pricing is similar to here, from memory.

The tesla network pricing is not really relevant as it's a (semi) closed shop with preferential pricing given to Tesla owners, and Tesla have always said their aim for supercharging was not to make profit but merely to break even. Even in Norway Tesla charging is 20c+ cheaper than others. What causes the delta between Tesla and non tesla networks in UK, EU, Norway etc? We're talking about Irish network/s gouging, not all over europe.

As an aside, I've been nothing but cordial to you, and I don't think remarks like "you'd do well to check your facts before posting in future" are helpful.

eastie17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653897#Comment_121653897

And the tax I pay funds the ESB network and is built into my monthly pay and road tax, VAT on everything, excise in the price of the car, ESB standing charges at home etc.

But one is twice the price of the other when it comes to charging the consumer

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654170#Comment_121654170

Non manufacturer funded charging at Ionity 73c/kWh.

The eCars network was partially funded by a grant (10m) from the government and supports a geographically diverse network. People often seem to forget that eCars aren't just a provider for commercially viable sites, they were given grants to justify pre-commercial investment so that a minimally viable network was available to you as a potential EV purchaser.

Ionity have rolled out to prime sites on major inter-urban routes and doesn't need to support a DC charger in Ballybackendofnowhere.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654027#Comment_121654027

Yes that is 20c on A/C that is provided by an operator that is there for the benefit of the public. I'll accept that it might not be a for-profit company. If we want to get more EVs in Ireland we need plans like that and that's my point exactly! Ecars by comparison is 56c or a factor of 2.8 more expensive

In fairness 55c is still less than the 60c+ that you quoted earlier. I've seen a handful of quickly disappearing free public AC charge points in Ireland but most of the time it's more expensive than ecars, take easygo down by hook lighthouse for example which is 70c/kWh plus an access fee...

If you bring facts here I will be as cordial to you as anybody else, that's a promise. I'm genuinely interested to hear where you can get AC charging for less than the ecars price

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654284#Comment_121654284

eCars have said they don't want to be in the AC charging business, cost neutral AC charging should be provided by local authorities.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654284#Comment_121654284

We don't really public charge a lot at all, but one regular AC spot we use is the Chargepoint in Rathfarnham. 4 * 32A 3 phase AC chargers, which loadshare into 11kW each side. These are 30c/kWh. Almost half the ecars price. A better service too, as they are tethered, they always work, and we go to the dealz and the butchers there. Chargepoint have a few AC chargers around.

Another charger I used to use, and I checked the app it's still free to use, is the one at the VHI in carrickmines. Single phase AC but free to charge.

A free charger I used for ages was the 2*16A 3 phase chargers in Gorey shopping center. They used to be free to use, now they are 70c/kWh with the monta app.

To be honest though, I prefer tethered and paid for AC, it means it's likely to be working and available to use.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654322#Comment_121654322

Or by locations as a means to attract customers/ visitors

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654364#Comment_121654364

Our regular hotel in Westport (Courtyard) has become an AC hub! It was why we went there first as they had a charger on site as one of the first ecars installs over 10 years ago. It was free to use but is now paid. I'm happier with paid as it means it's likely to be working and available to use. Free charging promotes bad behavior

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654364#Comment_121654364

Absolutely, AC charging as a business only makes sense when it's provided as a value add, whether that be by a commercial entity such as a car park operator, destination, or as a municipal service

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654362#Comment_121654362

That's very good value in fairness, cheaper than my (and I assume most others) day rate home tariffs

I used to use the freebies at the euro car parks in Limerick and the town centre in athlone, they were usually available as despite being free you had to pay for the parking which was capped at a daily rate so all very reasonable. Both have since been replaced by monta 70c units though

Like yourself I usually charge at home and also at night but can't very well do that when out and about... Also there's a huge section of our population who don't have the luxury to charge at home, if they were accommodated with better rates we would get better uptake of EVs in the country, which is supposed to be an aim of ecars

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654322#Comment_121654322

I've not seen a record of such commentary from ecars. I have anecdotally noticed they are actively changing AC units out for DC ones which is great to see. The price is still the issue though

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654513#Comment_121654513

Pretty sure it was in one of the video's the IEVOA published, their action over the last couple of years and contribution to the four council EV charging strategy paper show how standalone commercial AC charging just isn't a viable business proposition. They took a lot of negative feedback for doing AC chargers on behalf of Tesco.

It seems to me that being an AC charging operator is really only viable if your being paid to offer AC charging as a service by the host instead of doing so as a seller of electrons. If eCars did want to get back into the business perhaps they could call it Community by eCars.

AndyBoBandy

So it seems like there are some angry & abusive fcukers out there….

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654653#Comment_121654653

That's for sure a tweet with a story behind it

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654653#Comment_121654653

Angry EV drivers and now that EVs are part of the culture wars you'll have other loons having a go at their staff.

As for charging rates, they are not likely to fall that much I suspect, not least until a major operator moves into dynamic pricing and the existing infrastructure has paid for itself. I suspect that the operators are depreciating their sites set up costs over 10 year periods or similar and you will not see reductions until the majority of capex has been paid for.

The other risk that the operators are taking is that battery size is increasing so you might start to see a shift away from rapid charging as range gets better and better - though that does open up the market to those that cannot charge at home. However further investment towards MW level rapid charging will be needed then.

At the moment, things are changing so quickly that all you'll really get by opening a charger is a local monopoly, I can't see the profit in it at the moment.

In comparison to the UK, our prices look relatively reasonable.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654592#Comment_121654592

Yeah I get that if AC charging is limited to 22kW, and usually 7 or 11, it might not be profitable although my (once again anecdotal) evidence is that they are much cheaper to install than DC systems so swings and roundabouts

2 issues with public charging that need to be rectified are availability and price... If they replaced all their AC points with DC points it would be an improvement for sure on the availability side for sure.

Would it be enough for you to go electric if you didn't have home (or work) charging?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654653#Comment_121654653

We didn't need a tweet to know that in fairness, look at a comment section under any EV article and you can see the mis-information. Also angry EV drivers who might have needed a charge could be culprits here

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655359#Comment_121655359

Availability issues are massively overblown by people who avoid public charging. It's a very different experience trying to charge mid journey at peak times vs trying to get in a weekly charge whilst doing something else. There have been two periods where I've exclusively publicly charged for long periods.

Cost wise it was less than running a comparable petrol model. I was running a Mini Cooper SE but I was using the Mini Charging membership which was exceptionally good value. Using the WLTP rating for the SE and the petrol Cooper S with current petrol prices, and eCars membership rates a person doing the national average of 17,000km would spend €1,714 a year on petrol and €1,661 on eCars (with my Mini membership and the price that applies from Feb 1st (it's going up) it would cost €1,460 per year). The Cooper SE was a cheaper car to buy than the same spec Cooper S.

Too many people make the mistake of looking only at pay&go prices, if you rely on regular use of a public network it is worth putting in a little bit of effort to take out the right membership, there's a point where it makes sense to pay a €13/month extra for Ionity charging and exclusively use Ionity chargers. I could have charged the same Mini for a total of €1,095 per year. If there was an Ionity hub nearby I would have done so.

I still don't have my own home charger, I moved into a rented house with shared chargers for the estate which for the moment are better value than installing a charging and paying for on my own electricity bill. The management company have given me authorisation to install it.

The costs of running an EV on public chargers can be much higher compared to night charging with the right electricity plan, but when you compare them to comparable petrol running costs you find it's not so different. You eliminate the cost savings of going electric, but with price drops, the upfront price difference is also being eliminated.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656145#Comment_121656145

Regarding public charging availability, I think it depends where you live. You are quite fortunate to have electric chargers for your apartment block. If I had that a few years ago I'd have gone electric much faster!

Regarding a subscription model that's not a bad shout either but I'd like to see a rate comparable to home charging even if that meant a higher standing charge

MrMusician18

When did ESB start offering plug and charge? I only noticed it for the first time today

Bannerman1969

Ionity have reduced their monthly subscription to €5.99 per month - that's 0.20cent reduction to 0.53cent per kW. Hopefully ESB will follow this.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655359#Comment_121655359

Ev drivers who needed a charge and the contractor/employee turned off the charger mid session perhaps. Just a hunch ;)

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657386#Comment_121657386

I saw it about 4 days ago. I didn't even know that all vehicles had that technology of being able to pass a serial number or a key over the data line on the combo CCS.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657386#Comment_121657386

AFAIK It's not Plug & Charge in the proper sense, it's a competing standard called AutoCharge - https://www.current.eco/resources/articles/how-autocharge-is-revolutionising-the-ev-charging-industry

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657386#Comment_121657386

They appear to be doing it very very quietly, I haven't seen any mention of it on their website nor do I see instructions anywhere online on how to activate it. As somebody said it might be a cheaper implementation called "Autocharge" best way of knowing is to see if it works for VW branded cars

Could you give us a step by step how to activate it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658109#Comment_121658109

Don't think ionity are considered a viable competitor to ecars as they only have 5 or 6 sites

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657386#Comment_121657386

As mentioned by @markpb it's autocharge, works by uniquely tying a MAC address of the charge controller to a customer, however it's only compatible with certain brands, for instance VW group vehicles send a shared address and so cannot work with the system. Autocharge wasn't so much a standard as a system built after the fact when charge point operators realised cars could be mostly uniquely identified. I think Fastned pioneered it and it's now been adopted by a few operators.

Plug&Charge is a way more complicated (and capable). I think Ionity is the only supplier that supports it in Ireland.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658786#Comment_121658786

My car is a VW ID4 on 3.2. I was at a rapid last night and unusually I used the app to stop the charge. When I stopped it, it gave me the option to enroll in a plug and charge like service.

I didn't actually enroll because I am considering getting a freshmile card as that can work out cheaper when pulling down more than 60kwh at an ultra rapid. I didn't think it would play nicely with that and that when I'd plug in I'd be stuck with ecars rates.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658786#Comment_121658786

When you plug into an AutoCharge enabled EVSE, the eCars app will ask if you want to enable AutoCharge for your car. If you accept, it tries to do that before starting the charging session. From them on, you apparently just need to plug in and away it goes. I say apparently because I tried three times on the one charger that offered it and it failed all three times. I'm driving a pre-CCS Tesla so perhaps the adaptor isn't supported because the AutoCharge site says Tesla should work fine.

I assume it will only work on certain charge points and only when the firmware has been upgraded so it'll probably be a slow rollout.

AndyBoBandy

I was offered to use it by the eCars app when I plugged in my Model 3 a few weeks back!!, So I guess it works on a Tesla with native CCS?