The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
Okay, I'll confess I got a good laugh out of that 😂
We're not easily pleased are we?
2019-2023: Thread bitches endlessly about ESB eCars inability to design & install proper charging hubs.
2024: Thread discusses if AC chargers should be installed instead of 200kW hub
There's also 4 AC spaces nearby from another provider, plus another 6 being installed at KFC, so Blanch has a pretty good mix of charging
I imagine the logic of putting a group of HPC units there was that it would serve both the town and the N3 running past the centre
Personally however if I was driving past and needed a charge I might take the hub going in at Maxol instead to avoid the horrors of Blanchardstown traffic. It'll be interesting to see where the customers end up
I think the Maxol is only accessible heading into Dublin though, so it's good there's multiple options
Speaking of Blanch, is the old 150+50 hub going to be removed? They could easily enough turn that into a group of 4 50kW spaces and that would cover all the possibilities
I think its more in giving up 8 parking slots rather than giving away 30 odd for slower charging cars.
I know the 30 slower charging cars would likely be in the shops but maybe not in the shops.
Easier to justify 8 slots gone and meet some council or other target for EV chargers.
Ideally, there should be 8 fast and 30 to 50 slow 7kw or better yet, 11kw chargers available.
Don't really understand what you mean by this. It's the retail park's land, so it's them who are essentially having them installed. Why have they opted for 4 x 200KW units, which doesn't encourage anyone to use their shops? And is thoroughly inconvenient for anyone who is going to be spending 1hr+ in the centre? Why have they not had lower capacity chargers installed? 200KW units means most people will come, plug in and be charging for no more than 30mins.
Yes I know, which is great for a motorway services station, or on a primary route. Kind of pointless for a large retail centre, where most people are going to be spending 2hrs+.
The cost of putting in a 50kw where a 7KW one is quite expensive per kWh compared to putting in a hub which is where their focus is on
Hubs with 100kW+ charge speeds, yes, a 50kW charger would do in a city, not everybody wants to go to a service station to top up
100kW is perfect for a quick poo break and grabbing a takeaway coffee, 30 minutes adds up to 50kWh to the battery as well
These are chargers by a charging provider at a place that has nearby facilities such as coffee and toilets. If the centre want to encourage dwell time they can install their own lower capacity chargers
Good news about 4 x 200KW DC chargers (8 cars at 100KW each), but I would have thought somewhere like Blanchardstown shopping centre (and most large shopping centres in general) would benefit more from multiple lower speed DC chargers, given that people would likely be in the centre for a few hours?
8 x 100KW units (16 cars at 50KW each), or even more so, 16 x 50KW units (32 cars at 25KW each) would be better IMO? If I'm in the centre, browsing a few shops, getting some food, or going to the cinema, then I'll probably be there for a couple of hours anyway.
The spot that these newly installed chargers are in, it's 5mins walk to the centre, and 5mins back, so they're really only suitable for before or after shopping, to be used as regular ultrafast chargers. You can't really leave the car there and go do your business, unless you're just popping in to one shop to get something specifically....
No idea on the logistics or how much cost difference it would be for 16 x 50KW units compared with 4 x 200KW units though....
It’s a bad investment, they are going for hubs. AC chargers were put in where people spend hours. Which isn’t the location you want fast chargers
It's not expensive, it's an investment.
You seem more interested in semantics than the discussion @ted1.
Here is the quote. Its a clear signal of intent, if not a promise, but I did not posting in the EV forum to have a discussion about semantics.
Why do you think Mr Byrne voluntarily gave that quote to the press, and why do you think nothing has happened since?
"We purchase our electricity in blocks, so as the wholesale price has come down, and as we roll over our contracts and buy our next blocks of energy, then we hope to avail of those lower wholesale costs and pass those savings on to consumers" John Byrne, head of e-cars at ESB, Irish Times 16/08/23
Well that seems to be the general strategy, they aren't installing any new AC chargers in the short term
Capacity restrictions and cost.
digging the road/path upgrading cable, upgrading transformer, adding aDC charger are all expensive
True, they have improved and continue to improve, but are still quite capable of messing things up in silly ways
Regarding the public AC charging, this is the only specification I've ever been able to find from ESBN
It basically spells out two methods, one meter per charger and one centralised meter for a group of chargers
The first method is marked as the preferred one, but the second method is also acceptable for public streets
There does seem to be a limit of 9 single phase chargers and 49kVA MIC, but that's still 5kW per charger which is enough for an overnight charge. And two of these installations would likely supply a whole street
There's additional requirements for underground cabling and micro pillars installed by ESBN which probably raises the installation costs per kW of capacity, but I can't see how it isn't more competitive on a cost per charger basis
Ecars have always said that AC chargers aren't economical
If this is true then get why not get rid of AC charging altogether and replace with DC chargers? A dual 22kW AC site would logistically be able to provide at least 44kW on DC.
I know they have done this in a few locations such as peoples park in Limerick but why not all of them
One could counter that they'd expect more expansion for the price being paid
I've always been fierce critic of eCars, but their rollout has gained significant pace over the last 6-12 months in fairness... It used to be a new site (150kW + 50kW - in the usual 3 space configuration) every 4-6 months, but credit where credit's due they are opening 'better'* sites, and more regularly too... a lot more regularly...
*cable lengths are still a problem... the new 8 car hub in Blanch will accommodate 4x Tesla's & 4x VW's, but it won't accommodate 8x Tesla's, or 8x VW's.. thats a problem that doesn't need to be there (that problem is not there for Applegreen).
This has always been to keep in line with ESBN recommendations, but they are just recommendations and it can be possible to install multiple chargers on a single meter connection
If this is what's holding eCars back from installing new/more AC them it's madness.... utter madness.. I bet that hotel in Kerry that just installed 50 chargers doesn't have 50 new meters for them.... There is a huge market out there for AC charging, and there are so many operators getting in on it, but eCars should be owning that market given the awareness of their brand... people would gravitate towards them because they'd already have the app/account..
I suppose the CapEx argument from Ecars is that the current rates pay for network expansion rather than just paying for the current crop of chargers
One could counter that they'd expect more expansion for the price being paid 😏
I do agree that AC charging should be a lot cheaper. Ecars have always said that AC chargers aren't economical, but I still argue that they're designed to be uneconomical that way they're installed with a single meter connection per charger
One thing I find annoying is the assertion that Ecars is a separate entity within ESB group which is expected to be self funding
This is plainly untrue, for example when the chargers are being installed they're installed by ESB Networks engineers. All their planning permission is also being filed by ESB Innovations ROI
So there's definitely some support coming from the rest of ESB group. I don't have a problem with that per se, but it contradicts the narrative of Ecars being independent
Given the published rates for ESB engineers aren't exactly cheap, it seems likely that Ecars are getting a discount or are being horrendously irresponsible by not seeking a cheaper option (like doing the maintenance and planning in-house)
Not really a promise..
They do benefit the consumer. If generators are to do dear , they won’t get picked up.
Let me offer an opinion. eCars are part of ESB group, a highly ambitious group with operations beyond the ROI. I believe eCars are using Irish customers to pay for their expansion in the UK. So much for a green agenda, and supporting EV sales.
Maybe but I'd say it's more of a supply/demand argument and as mentioned earlier there's an element of "I'm alright jack because I rarely/never use public charging" and never mind the people who probably would rely on public charging due to not having a driveway
Presume that came about with the privatisation strategy in 2007? I would argue that they failed miserably on the point of reducing costs overall with that strategy but what do I know
That is a great analysis. I would probably though distinguish between eCars and other providers in the following way: eCars have a huge legacy estate. There is no CapEx Recovery required on many of their units. Admittedly, many are low volume, but any income from these is largely free income.
I would agree that ultra / rapid / fast chargers maintain a high 'convenience' price (still merit a small price reduction), but the legacy AC chargers are way over-priced (by as much as 20/25c) and these prices are distorting competition in the market.
I am also going to post this again. It is John Byrne, head of eCars promising rate reductions back in Autumn 2023. Seven months later not a dickie bird. They are surely the only company operating here still selling units of electricity at 2022 rates. Absolutely shameless back-pedalling from a promise to customers, particularly as they had previously committed when rising the price to review it down again as soon as they could.
Let me offer an opinion. eCards are part of ESB group, a highly ambitious group with operations beyond the ROI. I believe eCars are using Irish customers to pay for their expansion in the UK. So much for a green agenda, and supporting EV sales.
I'd agree with the Amazing raisin on this one, better to have some form of a backup plan for the days when the wind doesn't blow or the rivers don't flow while still allowing renewables to do most of the heavy lifting
It would obviously make more financial sense to have that 440MW plant in public ownership rather than in the hands of private interests but I accept that ship has long since sailed
As a competition mechanism between energy sources it works reasonably well. Renewables get first bid and when there's a lot of renewables available they force many fossil generators to idle
It's also generally made very polluting fuels like coal effectively uneconomical to use
Like any market system, it's extremely vulnerable to monopolies controlling prices. While the electricity market isn't a monopoly, the global gas market pretty much is and that disrupts any markets it feeds into
One could argue the system is working extremely well because high gas prices have driven a record amount of renewable installations and thus creating more competition and greening our electricity grid
Certainly I've never seen so many people installing solar panels or taking steps to be more energy efficient
It probably doesn't say many good things about our society that people tend to perform their best when threatened with scarcity and will be horribly wasteful when they're content and provided for
Maybe the economists had it right all along...
I'm actually okay with that, it's sensible having backup plans for an essential utility (probably one of the most essential utilities there is nowadays)
If you don't then you end up with a situation like Texas a few years ago
It's called the internal energy market. At the time it was implemented it was thought that it was the best mechanism to encourage competition for generators in a way that results in lower energy costs overall. The universe said "hold my beer" and figured out a way to break it very quickly.
Wait til you find out that some power stations here are being paid for their full 440MW output while outputting zero to the grid... the catch - they need to be able to output that 440MW within 30 minutes of getting the call from Eirgrid.
That seems like a bizarre situation where suppliers are unable to set their own prices and must follow the price of their most expensive competitor.
Not saying you're wrong just that it sounds rather unbelievable and not in keeping with most EU rules which are designed to benefit the consumer
