ESB eCars

innrain · 08-09-2021 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864425#Comment_117864425

@Templelogue if you would have connected to the AC, his DC power would have dropped to 25kW while yours would be 11kW so neither of you would have charged "rapid".

Black_Knight · 08-09-2021 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864344#Comment_117864344

Only the 150kW units can load share between CCS and CHAdeMO. Triple head units cannot DC load share, only 1 DC and 1 AC. Newer triple head units (with 22kW AC) do load share though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864425#Comment_117864425

UK call 50kW+ units rapid. 22kW units are fast.

liamog · 09-09-2021 10:23am

A fast charger in the UK is one that is capable of charging at 32A instead of 16A. My 7.2kW home charger is fast in UK parlance.

Kramer · 09-09-2021 10:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866850#Comment_117866850

Just to confuse some more & split hairs (my forte 🤣), I wouldn't call any AC point a charger. The charger is in the car. Charge point, wall box, EVSE etc., all apply. If we accept the term charger for everything, then we have to accept fast/rapid/high speed etc. for everything too.

Happy to drop the pedanticism if we're all agreed everything is a charger (they're not tho 😀).

liamog · 09-09-2021 10:36am

My 7.2kW home charger is located inside my car :P

I think it started with the Leaf having the option of a slow (3.3kW) and fast (6.6kW) option.

Kramer · 09-09-2021 10:47am

So if it's open season on eCars again.....here we go!

The Ballysimon Limerick 50kW charger is very busy. It's one of just two serving the city & all the through traffic Limerick gets with the Dubs heading to Kerry etc.. Galwegians heading to Cork, Waterford peeps heading to Clare.

The other DC charger is at the opposite side of the city.

There is a "hub" in the city centre - 2x 50kW DC, side by side. These are exclusively for taxi use. They may be higher rated even.

So, I'm at the SPOF Ballysimon charger, I need some juice, but not desperately. There's a UK reg BEV plugged in but not charging. I reckon he just plugged in & never initiated a charge - no sessions ever showed on the eCars app.

So that charger was hogged.

I was there a while & 2 EVs rolled in & out again when they saw the situation, the Ioniq 5 did the same, a Model 3 taxi stopped, I said he could go ahead of me but the charger was being hogged. He tried to remove the CCS plug from the offending hogger but it was locked in by the car. He (the taxi driver) wasn't happy - he'd just returned from a run to Kerry airport & needed a charge to continue.

There was no sign of the driver returning & all told we there a good 35 minutes, where 5 drivers were denied a charge due to not only the hogger, but the fact eCars never put in a 2nd unit on that site.

Added to the fact there is nothing preventing any ICE or EV hogger physically blocking the spaces, rendering the chargers useless to other needy drivers. Even if the hogger was charging (he wasn't & hadn't been), the €4.60 overstay fee wouldn't have been a deterrent.

That site needs a 150kW dual CCS (75/75) + 50kW triple & 2 more dedicated spaces, behind the charger.

ELM327 · 09-09-2021 11:00am

It's also worth noting that the overstay fee is flawed in its implementation. It only applies if you are connected *and charging* past 45 mins.

If your session ends then it is not charged.

cannco253 · 09-09-2021 12:44pm

The overstay fee is not high enough for people to take much notice of it. Double it or round it up to a tenner and I wonder would attitudes change? How did they come up with the 4.60 in the first place?

Blocking charging points is poor behaviour whether it's ICEd or an EV not charging.

Karma catches up with you eventually, especially when you least need it, but until it happens to you personally you might not understand how annoying it can be. With all the new EVs in 2021 you'd hope that everyone realises we are all sharing a limited resource, but there will always be exceptions.

zg3409 · 09-09-2021 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864344#Comment_117864344

ChaDeMo does not have priority, but on many chargers if someone is on CCS, then a leaf plugs in on ChaDeMo the charger has a glitch where the CCS stops. Then the ChaDeMo can start. So in the real world by accident or deliberate, ChaDeMo users can over ride CCS users.

innrain · 09-09-2021 2:08pm

@the_amazing_raisin How did they come up with the 4.60 in the first place?

It was 5 quid when they were charging 23% VAT. Then they've change it down to 13.5% So 5/1.23*1.135 =4.6

the_amazing_raisin · 09-09-2021 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868023#Comment_117868023

That was cannco253 saying that! I was wondering if I was losing my mind there 🤣

innrain · 09-09-2021 2:39pm

Sorry my bad. I was trying to find a way to quote a part of the text including the OP and botched it.

MightyMunster · 09-09-2021 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867504#Comment_117867504

Should do what Tesla do, charge per minute and double the rate if all chargers are full. With no maximum limit....

AndyBoBandy · 09-09-2021 5:02pm

Somebody made a very good point a short time ago regarding the overstay fee.

It should not apply if no one is waiting to use the charger, and the system would know this via the user who is waiting either registering within the app that they want to use the charger, backed up by a QR code at the actual charger being scanned (to avoid someone in 'booking' a charger they are 300km away from).. or the app using your location to verify that you are in fact at the charger in question.

We're in the times of 60-80-100kWh batteries coming in cars these days, so at a 50kW DC charger, they best you'll get in 45 minutes is 37.5kWh.... and that could be barely 50% for a lot of newer cars, so why get hit by an overstay fee if so one else wants to use the charger, but you need a total of 60-70kWh taken on?

ELM327 · 09-09-2021 5:10pm

I think is this already being done tbh. If there's no one around (ie no one to object) and you stop the session at 44 minutes, restart after 1 minute, then get another 44 its not an overstay. However I've heard tell that if you stop and start straight away after, you get the penalty retroactively

AndyBoBandy · 09-09-2021 5:26pm

Still fairly ridiculous that you even have to do that……. Overstay by all means on 150kW+ units, but on the 50kW units….. it’s fairly punitive!

slave1 · 09-09-2021 5:43pm

Reality is the overstay fee is only there because not enough chargers, the fee is not tackling the root cause.

As long as you are charging there should be no limit ala Tesla. Just to be clear, Tesla only charge after 5 minutes of the car stopped charging, you can stay for however long it takes for you to hit 100%. Even then the fee only applies if 50%+ of chargers in use, should all chargers be in use the fee doubles.

Put in more chargers instead

MightyMunster · 09-09-2021 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869051#Comment_117869051

I agree with this but very very rare to "need" 70kwh from a charge in Ireland to complete their journey. But definitely more chargers, 6 to 8 per location is what's needed.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 10-09-2021 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869051#Comment_117869051

I've requested this through the eCars app. Mainly because the usage stats don't capture EVs that drive off when a site is in use. Would provide more data re demand per location vs. how much use it gets.

Requested every DC site between Clonshaugh and Castlebellingham be upgraded to 4 chargers. Including dates, times and how many cars present when queues have formed.

And a minimum fee of 5c/minute for AC 22kW. Low priority compared to the state of the DC network.

eagerv · 10-09-2021 7:57pm

I'm sure this question has been asked many times, but the search facility on this new forum is pretty crappy..:

Off to the North next week from Wexford, first time in an EV. May not need to charge except for Ionity on M1, but may be handy to use eCars if out and about up there. Presume it's still free? And do you start the charge with our card/app? Understand they may not always be working, will plan for such.

AndyBoBandy · 10-09-2021 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873989#Comment_117873989

I'd go to the Quays in Newry fairly often and always use the card to start/end the charge... think I tried the app once and it didn't work, so just always use the card...

Theres another one a little further up the road at the Bandridge outlets..

Both AC22's...

mfceiling · 10-09-2021 8:22pm

And still free!!

DrPhilG · 11-09-2021 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874075#Comment_117874075

Unfortunately!

Black_Knight · 12-09-2021 9:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117873989#Comment_117873989

Could be of some use to you. Check what's the chances a plug will be available, and their unavailability... Common in the North.

https://ecars-stats.com/

jspuds · 13-09-2021 12:05pm

Watched this and thought this is exactly the type of chargers the ESB should be rolling out for the hubs.

Can't see it happening unfortunately.

https://youtu.be/mZuBaZEcrho

liamog · 14-09-2021 12:59pm

I really like the approach that kempower are using.

We won't see them in this phase of eCars hubs as the tender was already fulfilled. The current wave of hubs will be similar to the one installed in Mayfield.

AndyBoBandy · 14-09-2021 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889374#Comment_117889374

Similar to Mayfield......

so shite then.

Busman Paddy Lasty · 14-09-2021 2:30pm

It does raise the question how Tesla have been load balancing on Supercharger sites for ten years, Kempower now doing so a year or two but other operators install standalone type units that can't redistribute any leftover available power to additional connectors.

For example if an Outlander and an e-Golf are using the 150kW Delta charger in Kilcullen that may possibly only use 50kW total. Nobody can use the remaining 100kW, where Kempower site could have four connectors per 150kW available at the cabinet.

ELM327 · 14-09-2021 2:35pm

Tesla have the load balancing dynamically in blocks of 20kW, since 2012, until they didnt need to (ie V3).

I agree, I dont see why others dont do this. It means that if you have 4 350kW chargers you could probably get away with 600-800kW grid connection as opposed to 1.2GW.

the_amazing_raisin · 14-09-2021 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890045#Comment_117890045

Also since Tesla cars know how busy superchargers are they can plan around this, by suggesting other chargers if available

Didn't they introduce a higher fee if the site is running out of chargers as well?

So Tesla kind of do load management by managing customers as well as the grid power

ESB eCars

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