ESB eCars

PickYourName

markpb wrote: »

Those are very aspirational but I'm not sure how practical they are. The government has limited powers to force landowners to make changes. They can change the technical standards for new builds or when significant changes but it would be difficult to insist that car park owners and OMCs spend large amounts of money becoming complaint. In the case of OMCs, they probably wouldn't have the money and owners (the vast majority of whom do not own an EV) wouldn't appreciate a large jump in their management fees to pay for it.

I suspect the same applies for councils. Some of them might want to roll out lots of EV chargers but they don't have the money.

Someone has to pay for this stuff.

I think you're underestimating the power of governments: they can use levers such as the taxation system or purchasing power to encourage or discourage particular desired outcomes (e.g. national government to impose a new car park tax, but 100% rebate if X% of spaces have charging, or at EU-level put out a tender for a million+ charging points to force the unit cost down).

It is not rocket science to solve the problem: the technical problems have all been solved to the extent they have to be.

All that's missing is the political will to achieve the desired outcome of migrating the transport fleet to non-carbon energy sources and removing transport-related pollution from cities. If that was there, we'd see co-ordinated action at local-, national- and EU-level. If it isn't or it's just left to the market, progress will continue to be painfully slow.

McGiver

irishgrover wrote:

I fully understand and empathise with your view. However I disagree with it from an operational point of view. The solution to the vast majority of urban EV needs should be in the direct provision of, or enforced legislation of a solution. That solution being made up of mostly slower chargers. Government (national or local) should be much more active in literally forcing introduction of charging infrastructure. For example If you own a car park then 20% of all spaces should have chargers Management companies should be forced to provide charging facilities to private car parks in apartment complexes Local councils should agree on and implement a process for facilitating on street charging. Landlords should be forced to install EV chargers by default where parking exists Planning permission for all new builds should only be granted with provisions for charging points in every parking bay etc.

This. Yep that's what I call "the Norway-German" approach.

It needs to be primarily a regulatory, legislative effort. Also you didn't mention - adopt some tax incentives for business and employers to install chargers and it will work. Both public and private sector need to be involved and subjected to the legislation. It's not public bad, private good or vice versa. It needs a broad approach.

No need to reinvent the wheel really, it's already been done elsewhere.

innrain

In my opinion the education is required.
In the near future businesses like Dunnes/Musgrave will realize the potential to undercut urban petrol stations. Right now is the other way around. We eat/shop at petrol station which was not a reality few decades ago. While on the long journeys service stations would still make sense urban petrol stations will loose their meaning as any grocer or gym would be able to install chargers and sell electricity. If one compares the costs of few DC chargers with a petrol tank installation...
The gov should put forward best practices in first instance as the the whole space lacks the knowledge. My property management is dragging their feet ref installation. They don't say no, they just ask opinions how to do it. And I don't have a reference doc to put in front of them. I can put an opinion which somebody else attacks is with another opinion and in this way is every owners meeting for the last 12 months. And in the last 11 months I drove 27k km on EV around Dublin (and not only) using the public network and I have not change to much my habits. Some say you should be mad to do that but is doable and the end result is rewarding.
Demanding public car parks to have x% spaces with chargers is another step which should be in place. Is not a big expense for a couple of sockets.
I have a dream, when all these places will beg us to stop and charge

PickYourName

innrain wrote: »

The gov should put forward best practices in first instance as the the whole space lacks the knowledge. My property management is dragging their feet ref installation. They don't say no, they just ask opinions how to do it. And I don't have a reference doc to put in front of them. I can put an opinion which somebody else attacks is with another opinion and in this way is every owners meeting for the last 12 months.

That's another example of what I meant by political will; it's not even the case of funding in a lot of instances. Imagine if some govt. agency offered all the help and advice you need to get this done in the scenario you describe. Or some incentive to private operators to get involved in doing the same. The lack of leadership and action is crazy: people want to do the right thing, but if anything barriers are put in place rather than assistance.

innrain wrote: »

And in the last 11 months I drove 27k km on EV around Dublin (and not only) using the public network and I have not change to much my habits. Some say you should be mad to do that but is doable and the end result is rewarding.

Now that is interesting! It’s a bit off-topic (maybe start a new one?), but can you expand on your experience? e.g. what’s a typical week in terms of how/when/where charging is done and journeys made etc.?

I have been in the “you’d need to be crazy to have an EV without home charging" camp, but I’m starting to move ever so slightly into the possibility of considering it. As a PHEV owner, I'm well aware of the status of the network (though not of rapid chargers, which I don't use).

liamog

Reports on Facebook, the 22kW AC at Dublin Port has been upgraded. Its been replaced with a 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and a 22kW socket.

That gives the CircleK at the port 2x CCS, 2x CHAdeMO, 1x AC43, and 1x AC22.

Mickeroo

liamog wrote: »

Reports on Facebook, the 22kW AC at Dublin Port has been upgraded. Its been replaced with a 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and a 22kW socket.

That gives the CircleK at the port 2x CCS, 2x CHAdeMO, 1x AC43, and 1x AC22.

That's three "hubs" now so :pac:

MJohnston

liamog wrote: »

Reports on Facebook, the 22kW AC at Dublin Port has been upgraded. Its been replaced with a 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and a 22kW socket.

That gives the CircleK at the port 2x CCS, 2x CHAdeMO, 1x AC43, and 1x AC22.

Shows up on the ESB map already!

innrain

Is the one I first saw on ecars test lab. I was wondering how to get there but now I know. Port is a bit awkward location but no complains from me.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Reports on Facebook, the 22kW AC at Dublin Port has been upgraded. Its been replaced with a 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and a 22kW socket.

That gives the CircleK at the port 2x CCS, 2x CHAdeMO, 1x AC43, and 1x AC22.

Interesting!
I wonder if the user of the 22kW AC is charged the FCP rate as it's not an FCP for that, and if the 45 minutes applies
EDIT: The 22kW shows as "free" on the app and not charged at 29c

liamog

Hard to tell whether this installation is part of a planned expansion or just field testing a new equipment supplier. Since this thread began, that charging site has gone from 0 CCS to 2. It's a nice improvement.

Still 50 Kw, I presume the ESB are just leaving the more expensive 100+ chargers for someone like Ionity to install.

50 Kw was fine in 2011 but today ?

How many cars can take over 50 Kw today ?

Ioniq 28 Kwh

---

70Kw ?

Kia E-Soul 64 Kwh

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70 Kw

Kona 64 Kwh

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70 Kw

Niro 64 Kwh

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70 Kw

E-tron

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150 Kw ?

Soon to be available VW id.3

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50-110 Kw depending on battery.

Leaf 60 Kwh

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70-100 Kw ? but it's still ChaDeMo. ?

That's just off the top of my head so what are the ESB playing at ?

innrain

Just to add to your list

i-pace 100kW
EQC 100kW
e208 100kW
Taycan 300kW?

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

That's just off the top of my head so what are the ESB playing at ?

From post #1, this is what was indicated.

• 6 high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously
• 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously;
• Additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations;
• Upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW
• Replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

We've not yet had any indication of plans for 6 8 vehicle high-speed hubs, or the 16 4 vehicle hubs, but this installation is an example of an additional high power charger at a 50kW location, and J14 Mayfield was an example of upgrading a 22kW charger to 50kW.

The big hubs will take longer, as they will likely need new substations and upgrades to local supply. It would be nice for eCars to publish a more definitive upgrade plan though.

unkel

liamog wrote:

6 high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously
16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously

22 high speed charging hubs announced well over a year ago. And how many did we get so far?

Right. None.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

22 high speed charging hubs announced well over a year ago. And how many did we get so far?

Right. None.

Yep, the M9 new site and all got 2 x 50 Kw, now I'm not complaining, it's been convenient for me when I needed them, I never had to wait yet and of course my i3 can't take more than 50 Kw anyway but you'd think that on a motorway new installation that they would have been 100 kw + ?

zg3409

liamog wrote: »

Reports on Facebook, the 22kW AC at Dublin Port has been upgraded. Its been replaced with a 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and a 22kW socket.

That gives the CircleK at the port 2x CCS, 2x CHAdeMO, 1x AC43, and 1x AC22.

From esb ecars twitter. User guide here

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.esb.ie%2Fdocs%2Fdefault-source%2FFNS%2Fcircontrol-raption-user-guide%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR120fATcZ-BC7MgUsv9PAb0GzBXmpfbEVCWA7DWMB7F2vbPhagIt2iEluY&h=AT156tWxGsob-yF4Df19tCaOy6xYVhClATtAIi8T-D54Y_O8LH76urls_tSUMzg8ZbECI9BaSKrbDAQQQn_kUt0bbPMkbZ-90xf2nnagi2ns3iMm7K8V-q6RBIdbC__TzM9oFyUvnA5BO5y0czLGjw

I'm sure Zoe owners will be impressed to see new "fast" chargers with half the power on AC.

liamog

I think Renault has given up on the AC43, as far as I'm aware it's not available on the Zoe50. A number of the UK chargers have started to abandon the AC43 and just provide an AC22 socket instead. I see more PHEVs using AC43 than Zoe's.

ELM327

From the manual it looks like the cables are locked in place until you swipe
Interesting way to combat the nefarious chademo users who are ending CCS sessions by connecting the chademo cable without swiping.

liamog

I was looking at the spec sheet for this charger versus the new 2x22kW Efacec units that eCars have deployed.
The 2x22kW requires a 44kVA connection to provide 2x22kW.
This circontrol unit requires a 53kVA connection for the DC side, and an extra 22kVA to provide the AC.

The DC side consists of 4 12.5kW modules. It would be interesting to see if they have increased the supply to the unit, or if it's going to load balance, i.e. 25kW DC available when a Zoe is plugged in, and 37.5kW DC when a sub AC12.5kW car is plugged.

ELM327

If the experience in Mayfield and Obama plaza is anything to go by, it will be the latter

liamog

Kinda makes the overstay charge hard to justify if your car takes 30 mins to charge normally, but an hour when a Zoe plugs in next to you.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

I was looking at the spec sheet for this charger versus the new 2x22kW Efacec units that eCars have deployed.
The 2x22kW requires a 44kVA connection to provide 2x22kW.
This circontrol unit requires a 53kVA connection for the DC side, and an extra 22kVA to provide the AC.

The DC side consists of 4 12.5kW modules. It would be interesting to see if they have increased the supply to the unit, or if it's going to load balance, i.e. 25kW DC available when a Zoe is plugged in, and 37.5kW DC when a sub AC12.5kW car is plugged.

Progress ESB style. In 2010 we got 50kW and in 2020 we are getting 37.5kW :rolleyes:

While the rest of the civilised world is already getting 300-350kW...

ELM327

Give it another few months to a year and the private networks will have it covered anyway.
I almost never use the ecars chargers anymore. Ionity are covering the country very well and the areas they don't have (except the north west) is covered by Tesla anyway.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Give it another few months to a year and the private networks will have it covered anyway.
I almost never use the ecars chargers anymore. Ionity are covering the country very well and the areas they don't have (except the north west) is covered by Tesla anyway.

I heard Tesla are getting a few more superchargers in over the next year or so. Still thinking about it, but I might not even get my car converted to CCS at all. It would be good for the EV community if Tesla would make their CCS available to other makes of cars though (for a fee of course)

Just checked with a hotel in Connemara where we are planning to stay and yes, they have EV charging. Seems most 4* and upwards hotels I have checked in the last year or so have charging facilities now (if you include them providing an outside socket for granny charging)

ELM327

You should have gotten it done.
I got mine for free before collection!
Now it will cost you 500euro. Would still reccomend. Whatever you do, dont bother with chademo.

I would budget for MCU2 upgrade and CCS retrofit.

Mickeroo

unkel wrote: »

I heard Tesla are getting a few more superchargers in over the next year or so. Still thinking about it, but I might not even get my car converted to CCS at all. It would be good for the EV community if Tesla would make their CCS available to other makes of cars though (for a fee of course)

Just checked with a hotel in Connemara where we are planning to stay and yes, they have EV charging. Seems most 4* and upwards hotels I have checked in the last year or so have charging facilities now (if you include them providing an outside socket for granny charging)

Plugshare is handy for seeing hotels with charge points as someone will usually have flagged them on it.

ELM327

Mickeroo wrote: »

Plugshare is handy for seeing hotels with charge points as someone will usually have flagged them on it.

+1
I find plugshare is the best all inclusive map for chargers

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

You should have gotten it done.
I got mine for free before collection!

You think I didn't ask?

It was just one step too far. They were very busy on the day. It involves hardware change as well / replacing some wiring looms and they just didn't have the time. Even if I would pay them for it

I'd say it might be a good bit more than €500 too. I'll check with Sandyford

ELM327 wrote: »

I would budget for MCU2 upgrade

Not a chance I would pay the few grand for that. Kinda hoping my MCU1 will give up the ghost before my warranty is up, so they can replace that. In that case I will of course try to get a free upgrade to MCU2

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

You think I didn't ask?

It was just one step too far. They were very busy on the day. It involves hardware change as well / replacing some wiring looms and they just didn't have the time. Even if I would pay them for it

I'd say it might be a good bit more than €500 too. I'll check with Sandyford



Not a chance I would pay the few grand for that. Kinda hoping my MCU1 will give up the ghost before my warranty is up, so they can replace that. In that case I will of course try to get a free upgrade to MCU2

I asked in advance, several times, and got it!


It is about €500, I got a quote from Sandyford for mine before knowing it would be done already.


They won't change MCU1 to 2 under warranty.