ESB eCars

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

I say - where's the money ESB? I'm going to send a letter of enquiry on where they'd put the money in last several years and where & when their bloody hubs are going to happen.

Waste of time.

I've to go to Sandymount today for 3 PM and the only charger I see near there that's half easy to get to is in the Stillorgan hotel.

When you actually zoom in and look around Dublin, especially the City, the lack of chargers is truly astounding and of course whatever is there is only single chargers.

No charger in Sandymount, Donnybrook, Ballsbridge, Or even in the City Centre, that is absolutely crazy stuff, Our Capital city with no DC charger in the centre or near ?

Christ, anyone who thinks the Public charging infrastructure is in any way adequate is living in Cuckoo land.

I'm going to leave early and see if I can charge up at the hotel, the traffic at 4-5 PM whenever I get to leave will be horrific so I don't have high hopes about charging on the way home. If that's in use I'm not turning back for the Luas at Sandyford.

I'm not too worried of course because I have the Rex but I am trying to see if charging availability has improved since the charges came into effect and I am sure it has but the last 3 times I went to use the network it was in use or down. So we'll see what happens today.

MJohnston

I think we could do with one or two city centre FCPs, but there are plenty of destination chargers around the city, which is ultimately what most people want from the area.

The real problem for the city is Dublin City Council, who have absolutely no brains about, well, most things. DLRCC are at least making an attempt with providing their own destination chargers all over their LEA, including trialling the lamppost chargers in Dun Laoghaire.

That said, there shouldn't be too much effort put into city centre charge points, because there shouldn't be cars in the city centre.

It's worth noting that the area inside the Outer Orbital Route is almost completely devoid of petrol stations - there's one on Usher's Quay and one away out in Kilmainham and that's it. I think that speaks to how people are happy to fill up (with whatever juice necessary) on their way into and out of the city centre, they don't expect to be able to do it in the city itself.

unkel

McGiver wrote: »

I say - where's the money ESB?

It's a semi-state company with very high salaries and cosy pensions. I think the answer to that question is easy

But seriously, we need to stop this inefficient use of tax payers money. Let the private sector build fast charging networks. At no cost to us. Like in pretty much every other EU country. State subsidy for state companies installing hardware competing with the private sector is also possibly illegal. We could try to get the EU to intervene here.

@11

Ok So after looking at the map again I discovered that I can't get to the Stillorgan Park Hotel charger without going out of my way to get on the south lane of the carriageway, so the only sensible option is to divert to the Luas at Sandyford and hope this is not us use or won't be for long.

This is a problem, having to go out of my way to get a charge, coming home it makes no sense to charge due to the sheer volume of traffic I will have to endure, other than that I will pass the charger on the way home at the hotel but not at a good time.

There's not even a practical AC point where I am going, this would do the job perfectly for me @11 Kw but there are none around Sandymount.

It shouldn't be this difficult folks, it just shouldn't.

unkel

You should have got a PHEV, you would never need to look for a fast charger, queue for it to become available and then wait while charging.


Oh wait

But seriously, why bother stressing over where you can charge if you don't need to?

irishgrover

Deleted User wrote: »

I've to go to Sandymount today for 3 PM and the only charger I see near there that's half easy to get to is in the Stillorgan hotel.

When you actually zoom in and look around Dublin, especially the City, the lack of chargers is truly astounding and of course whatever is there is only single chargers.

No charger in Sandymount, Donnybrook, Ballsbridge, Or even in the City Centre, that is absolutely crazy stuff, Our Capital city with no DC charger in the centre or near ?

Christ, anyone who thinks the Public charging infrastructure is in any way adequate is living in Cuckoo land. ........

Personally I'd be quite annoyed if EBS concentrated on putting a load of FCPs in every area of southside Dublin, or even the city centre. IMHO that would be a waste of resources. Fill urban centres with destination chargers and the very odd FCP.
There should however be a ring of FCP hubs surrounding Dublin at a distance of about 50 - 80 km from the City centre on all the major roads

EV drivers in dublin should be fast charging as they enter or leave. Not fast charging when they get there. It EV drivers are in Dublin all the time then they should be home, work or street destination charging. If they can't do that, they should really not be buying EVs until the infrastructure improves.

Also, I've yet to me anyone that thinks that the Public charging infrastructure is where is where it needs to be at a national level.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

You should have got a PHEV, you would never need to look for a fast charger, queue for it to become available and then wait while charging.


Oh wait

But seriously, why bother stressing over where you can charge if you don't need to?

You're correct, it just shows though despite some saying the network is great, it isn't, it's completely inadequate and not fit for purpose.

Too much planning around it to be honest, think I will just use the Rex and be done with it. I could divert to the Luas in Stillorgan and it could be in use so it's not worth the aggro.

You'd expect a lot better in Dublin.

graememk

Isn't the one at the luas nearly always ice'd? Because it's ev priority not ev only

Black_Knight

irishgrover wrote: »

Personally I'd be quite annoyed if EBS concentrated on putting a load of FCPs in every area of southside Dublin, or even the city centre. IMHO that would be a waste of resources. Fill urban centres with destination chargers and the very odd FCP.
There should however be a ring of FCP hubs surrounding Dublin at a distance of about 50 - 80 km from the City centre on all the major roads

EV drivers in dublin should be fast charging as they enter or leave. Not fast charging when they get there. It EV drivers are in Dublin all the time then they should be home, work or streat destination charging. If they can't do that, they should really not be buying EVs until the infrastructure improves.

Also, I've yet to me anyone that thinks that the Public charging infrastructure is where is where it needs to beat a national level.

Nail on the head there. Rapid chargers in city/town centers shouldn't be the norm. It'd only drive (no pun intended) cars into the busy city centers for splash and dash charging. Destination chargers in centers and rapid DC chargers on main artery roads. Pretty much what ESB has been doing, but their rate of rollout isn't good enough.

We need an infrastructure like ICE has and to think the Public expects anything less, particularly with much less range then would be a mistake.

We need all sorts of charging everywhere.

We need a lot more fast + AC points, AC point would do for my trip to Sandymount with 11 KW charger, would be perfect but there's none anywhere close.

Yes, the City could do with some fast chargers. People will need to top up fast from time to time and they don't want to use 30% of their range or more to drive all the way to a fast charger and back the opposite direction.

kanuseeme

Taxi drivers are not going to drive 50 km outside the city to charge, or some one running late will not want to stop before a meeting etc. might not have the range to make it back to a charger they passed on the way in. Put the things everywhere.

unkel

+1

There are over 2 million people within 50km of Dublin city centre. Many / most of them would rarely venture outside of this circle. We do need plenty of fast chargers in the Dublin area too, not just outside it.

MJohnston

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We need an infrastructure like ICE has and to think the Public expects anything less, particularly with much less range then would be a mistake.

We need all sorts of charging everywhere.

We need a lot more fast + AC points, AC point would do for my trip to Sandymount with 11 KW charger, would be perfect but there's none anywhere close.

Yes, the City could do with some fast chargers. People will need to top up fast from time to time and they don't want to use 30% of their range or more to drive all the way to a fast charger and back the opposite direction.

As I said in my post that you seemed to have ignored, there is basically zero ICE infrastructure in the city centre, so EVs have a much better situation with the SCPs that are dotted about the place.

How many trips are people doing per day that are so far as to require a charge? I’d drive my i3 from Dun Laoghaire into Dublin the odd time for an errand, and while I might look for a SCP near where I’m going, it’s never like I *need* to charge. I’d say the same is true for every single person who lives in the Dublin metro area, because it’s just not that big of an area to need destination fast chargers.

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

+1

There are over 2 million people within 50km of Dublin city centre. Many / most of them would rarely venture outside of this circle. We do need plenty of fast chargers in the Dublin area too, not just outside it.

And between that 50km radius and Dublin city center there should be rapid chargers... which there already are. Not enough multi bay chargers, but they exist. 50km from Dublin is newbridge, Navan, Drogheda, Wicklow!

If you're driving around Dublin city itself, you've to do a lot of driving before you'd empty your battery. Taxis is a decent point, but i'd imagine the local Dub is never too far from a rapid charger, or home.

unkel

Black_Knight wrote: »

And between that 50km radius and Dublin city center there should be rapid chargers... which there already are.

Aye, but most of them off the beaten track and unusable because of queues (a bit better now there is charging for charging)

It doesn't help that only one car can charge at a time, which is ridiculous in 2020, and that the chargers are very old and quite unreliable (card readers often broken). And there is this persistent bug that a CHAdeMO user can kick off a CCS user. You would have thought that one of those thousands of ESB engineers (on salaries of well over €100k) would have come up with a fix for that one by now?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

You would have thought that one of those thousands of ESB engineers (on salaries of well over €100k) would have come up with a fix for that one by now?

It's a semi-state company with very high salaries and cosy pensions.

The average ESB salary is about €70k inc overtime. Thats much the same as our Gardai are getting. Are Gardai paid "very high salary"? Im sure they'd argue not.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/average-weekly-earnings-have-increased-by-35-to-784--cso-984007.html


You dont think ESB provide value for money for the country and the economy?



No arguing that they should be doing better in the eCars division but thats a small subset of what ESB do.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

The average ESB salary is about €70k inc overtime.

Last time I checked it was over €100k average (and I posted a link at the time) for all ESB staff, including low paid non-engineers

What do you base that €70k on?

Edit - and that was in the middle of the recession, I doubt they are earning any less now

Linky - article from 2010 - Average pay and pension of ESB workers near €100,000

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Last time I checked it was over €100k average (and I posted a link at the time) for all ESB staff, including low paid non-engineers

What do you base that €70k on?

Edit - and that was in the middle of the recession, I doubt they are earning any less now

Linky - article from 2010 - Average pay and pension of ESB workers near €100,000

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0414/781841-esb-workers-set-to-receive-5-5-pay-rise/
https://www.thejournal.ie/esb-pay-rise-2716701-Apr2016/

See last pargraph where they say the average was confirmed by ESB itself to be €62k and €72k if you include overtime.

They had a round of layoffs a few years back as well so that probably got the older higher paid folks out the door.


I think your link is pay plus pension costs which isnt really the same thing as what you see in your payslip at all. Do you include your old age pension on your salary figure?

PickYourName

Black_Knight wrote: »

If you're driving around Dublin city itself, you've to do a lot of driving before you'd empty your battery. Taxis is a decent point, but i'd imagine the local Dub is never too far from a rapid charger, or home.

And what if you don't have a charger at home? Or at work? It means that it is impractical for a lot of people to have an EV if you live in Dublin - along with about a 1/4 of the population.

At the moment, I have a PHEV. I'd love to get an EV but don't have any prospect of getting a home charger, or one at work (like a lot of housing in the inner suburbs, I don't have a driveway).

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Do you include your old age pension on your salary figure?

Wages, overtime, lump sums, bonus, pension, unvouched expenses, employers PRSI, yes all is off course included in total salary costs and I have no doubt this figure is well over €100k for an average ESB engineer.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Wages, overtime, lump sums, bonus, pension, unvouched expenses, employers PRSI, yes all is off course included in total salary costs and I have no doubt this figure is well over €100k for an average ESB engineer.

Thats dodging the question/point and I think you know it!

There is a big difference between you saying that an ESB engineer is on €100k+ salary ("on salaries of well over €100k") or saying that thats the total cost to the company.

If you add in the pension that a Garda gets when they retire it would also be well over €100k per Garda so the point still stands... ESB employees, on average, are paid about the same as our Gardai are. You should use the €70k figure, not the €100k figure, if you are referring to average salary.

Im just trying to give balance and facts.

Do you consider the Gardai overpaid?

Black_Knight

PickYourName wrote: »

And what if you don't have a charger at home? Or at work? It means that it is impractical for a lot of people to have an EV if you live in Dublin - along with about a 1/4 of the population.

Correct. If you don't have access to a charger at home or at work, you are silly to buy an EV. There's zero plans that i've heard of to support these people. ESB barely support their current infrastructure.

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Aye, but most of them off the beaten track and unusable because of queues (a bit better now there is charging for charging)

It doesn't help that only one car can charge at a time, which is ridiculous in 2020, and that the chargers are very old and quite unreliable (card readers often broken). And there is this persistent bug that a CHAdeMO user can kick off a CCS user. You would have thought that one of those thousands of ESB engineers (on salaries of well over €100k) would have come up with a fix for that one by now?

Yup. There's flaws with the current rolled out infrastructure for sure, but I don't think city centers are the place for rapid chargers, at least not while main roads aren't sufficiently supported.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

If you add in the pension that a Garda gets when they retire it would also be well over €100k per Garda so the point still stands... ESB employees, on average, are paid about the same as our Gardai are. You should use the €70k figure, not the €100k figure, if you are referring to average salary.

Im just trying to give balance and facts.

Do you consider the Gardai overpaid?

What's your point that you keep comparing ESB engineers with Gardai? We are talking about ESB engineers here. Not gardai, and not the CEO of Disney Corporation either.

My point is that an average ESB engineer costs well over €100k no matter what name you give to those costs, salary, pension, overtime or what not. And my opinion is that we should not have ESB inefficiently using tax payers money to install any fast charge points, possibly illegally competing with private companies that are willing to do this for free.

The Satanist

There are chargers going into the multi-story car park in the Pavilions SC in Swords. 4 parking spots on level 3 painted green with e- cars logo on them.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

What's your point that you keep comparing ESB engineers with Gardai?

I dont need to explain it to you. You know the point and you are misrepresenting the figures but you wont admit it because it doesnt fit you long held anti ESB bias.

I'll reiterate, I'm not happy with eCars progress to date either but I'm not going to bash the entire ESB organisation and misrepresent their salaries for it. I'll bash eCars.

unkel wrote: »

My point is that an average ESB engineer costs well over €100k no matter what name you give to those costs, salary, pension, overtime or what not.

That isnt what you said though. You are now using cost rather than salary. Its a very different thing and clearly misleading when you represented it the way you did.

unkel wrote: »

And my opinion is that we should not have ESB inefficiently using tax payers money to install any fast charge points, possibly illegally competing with private companies that are willing to do this for free.

And you are entitled to that view but it has nothing to do with their salaries.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I dont need to explain it to you.

Yes you do. Why on earth compare an ESB engineer to a Garda and then ask my opinion if the latter is overpaid?

And as for an ESB employee, why would the tax payer care if their costs comprises of wages, expenses or pension? It's total cost that they have to pay. Well over €100k for an ESB engineer.

Not that it matters much as the ESB shouldn't be installing any infrastructure from tax payers money when the private sector is doing it for free.

PickYourName

Black_Knight wrote: »

Correct. If you don't have access to a charger at home or at work, you are silly to buy an EV. There's zero plans that i've heard of to support these people. ESB barely support their current infrastructure.

I understand and agree with that.

What I don't understand and agree with are those saying here that there's no problem about there being no fast chargers in the city centre. Just becuase you as an individual don't have a need for them doesn't mean that they are not needed.

If they were provided, it would open up the possibility of far more EVs in the very place they are needed the most.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

you long held anti ESB bias.

You keep saying that, I'm not quite sure why. My view is neutral here. As I am with my personal money, I would like the government to be very careful and efficient with my tax payers money. Giving it away to a semi-state company without a tendering process is at best inefficient. At worst it might also be illegal.

It looks like your own views are not so neutral though. Do you work for the ESB or do any of your family or friends? That would explain a lot. There are several other regular posters on this forum that are very much pro-ESB but they haven't made it a secret that they work for them. So their bias is understandable if not justified.