Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Working class heroes

Anthracite wrote: »

It's not a good day when you get your pants pulled down by the mighty Faroe Islands.

Yes, it’s official. They are away with the Faroes.

Peregrinus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Oh gawd... this doesn't bode well for the Rest Of The World deals.


The new UK-Faroe Islands agreement replicates the existing trading arrangements as far as possible. ie. the UK is NOT taking back control of fishing.

It took two years to do a status quo deal with a single product island nation of 51,000. And the UK has not won any concessions from them even though the Faroese are totally dependent on selling fish which forms 98% of exports.


This means the Faroese can continue to sell fish caught in UK waters back to the UK :rolleyes:
https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/mackerel-deal-between-eu-and-faroe-islands-is-criticized-by-scottish-commercial-fishing-groups

Apparently the Faroese hold all the cards.

Anthracite

MPFGLB wrote: »

Well the Brexiter economist predicted (and welcomed) the winding down of the car industry in the UK..its a good thing seemingly

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/devastating-future-welsh-manufacturing-predicted-15323164

I would genuinely like to know exactly how Mogg and Minford think that 'metal bashers' as he calls them in these factories will turn into engineers - if they didn't have the money, ability or desire to do so when they were young, how will they suddenly find all three in their 30s/40s/50s?

Harry Palmr

Theresa Mays exit to Brussels with an interview invoking battles and Britain and being armed just sets the right tone doesn't it?

Capt'n Midnight

Peregrinus wrote: »

Apparently the Faroese hold all the cards.

Reality Check :
It's a £200m trade deal that could cost them 12 seats in Scotland.

What ever happened to taking back control ?



Besides the margin on that deal is way below the going rate to buy a single MP.

Brexit: John McDonnell rejects any funds deal for votes

The government is understood to be considering proposals from a group of Labour MPs in predominantly Leave-supporting constituencies to allocate more funds to their communities for big infrastructure projects.

It is thought the MPs have urged the prime minister to consider re-allocating the EU's regional aid budget away from big cities and local councils and to give the cash direct to smaller communities, often in former steel and coal mining areas.

Impetus

Looking at the route from Ireland to Paris, a direct trip to Paris does not increase from 20 to 40 hours (comparing via GB travel with direct travel).

The media idiots have created an echo chamber of untruth, and the concept is going unchallenged.

Google maps puts the route from Cork to Paris at 15h41 min via Dublin and GB (1'337 km), 17h53 (1'143 km) and directly (via Roscoff) 19h6 min (1'159 km).

Going via Dublin is the longest route in km terms - mainly because of the clueless motorway network design foisted on the country by politicians and others. But due to the speed limits and road infrastructure is the fastest.

The main limiting factor on the direct Cork Roscoff Paris route is the number of sailings - practical terms. The journey time could be reduced by using waterjet technologies (eg Finland's Wärtsilä - powered by clean nastural gas) putting it on a par with the time taken via Dublin. Obviously the real speed would be dictated by sea conditions - but the real speed via GB has lots of unknowns (weather, traffic, poor road infrastructure etc) in terms of end to end journey times.

Google journey time comparison: https://tinyurl.com/ybkaprr9

Engine: https://tinyurl.com/yaplcbjt

fergiesfolly

Won't say this very often, but I thought Mary Lou spoke very well on Andrew Marr right now.
It's vital that all parties show a United front to the UK and the EU and she really put party polititics aside and pushed the national agenda.
Pity the UK politicians can't do the same.

CelticRambler

Impetus wrote: »

Google maps puts the route from Cork to Paris at 15h41 min via Dublin and GB (1'337 km), 17h53 (1'143 km) and directly (via Roscoff) 19h6 min (1'159 km).

Google maps is woefully optimistic with regards to vehicular journey times, and pretty useless if that vehicle weighs more than 3.5t or happens to be towing a trailer. On continental journeys, I've found it to be as much as 25% out (faster) than the forecast for same route on viamichelin. The latter has one of the crappiest journey-planning websites, but I think Michelin know more about European roads than the IT bods in Silicon Valley.

Google also disregards the legal requirement to stop every so often. Human journey planners find ways to incorporate those stops efficiently into long treks. Unless, of course, that's a full stop at a closed border/customs check point.

embraer170

Nissan have a confirmed the Sunderland story. While not explicitly blaming Brexit uncertainty, the language is pretty clear.

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-boss-confirms-sunderland-blow-brexit-not-helping-11626958

He added that the announcement would be "interpreted by a lot of people as a decision related to Brexit" and that "uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".

VonZan

embraer170 wrote: »

Nissan have a confirmed the Sunderland story. While not explicitly blaming Brexit uncertainty, the language is pretty clear.

https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-boss-confirms-sunderland-blow-brexit-not-helping-11626958

He added that the announcement would be "interpreted by a lot of people as a decision related to Brexit" and that "uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".

It's hard to feel sorry for the workers. 61% voted for this. What did they think would happen?

On another note, can anyone work out how the Conservatives have made gains again? I understand Labour dropping but it's strange to see the Tories gain support. Was it the Brady amendment? Possibly Northern Labour voters switching allegiance.

Surely a Labour will turn on Corbyn soon.

Impetus

CelticRambler wrote: »

Google also disregards the legal requirement to stop every so often. Human journey planners find ways to incorporate those stops efficiently into long treks. Unless, of course, that's a full stop at a closed border/customs check point.

Why does a driver (and tractor) have to travel on a ferry?

The delivery driver could be based on the French side (using an LHD tractor), and pull the load off a boat, which only has a ferry crew on it. Even if the driver travels with the load, he is surely resting during the cruise (ie s/he is not driving). It is not possible with current technology to sleep while driving a truck through GB.

While Google may be optimistic - and is using timings for a car as opposed to a truck, it is using the same model to compute travel via GB routes as for IE <> FR direct trips.

In any event, I am proposing an LNG waterjet traction system for the maritime link, which is far faster than any freight ship currently serving Ireland at present.

Insular Ireland thinking!

Water Jet videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCpVvWrK_Ic

Simulation of water jet propelled tanker (in a tsunami)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AOkeyRsm0

Celtic sea map with depths:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Celtic_Sea_and_Bay_of_Biscay_bathymetric_map-en.svg

Could container ships as fast as speedboats soon shorten global supply chains? A transport revolution is waiting to happen

https://www.economist.com/business/2001/08/02/how-to-shrink-the-world

mickoneill31

CelticRambler wrote: »

Google maps is woefully optimistic with regards to vehicular journey times, and pretty useless if that vehicle weighs more than 3.5t or happens to be towing a trailer. On continental journeys, I've found it to be as much as 25% out (faster) than the forecast for same route on viamichelin. The latter has one of the crappiest journey-planning websites, but I think Michelin know more about European roads than the IT bods in Silicon Valley.

Google also disregards the legal requirement to stop every so often. Human journey planners find ways to incorporate those stops efficiently into long treks. Unless, of course, that's a full stop at a closed border/customs check point.

So the summary is that Google Maps isn't the correct tool to measure journey times for trucks, which in fairness I don't think is its intended purpose.

briany

VonZan wrote: »

It's hard to feel sorry for the workers. 61% voted for this. What did they think would happen?

I don't think there was a whole lot of considered thinking involved. Politicians like Jacob Rees Mogg may be able to more eloquently state why he thinks Brexit's a good idea, but on the street the argument appears to be more emotional than anything.

Taking Sunderland as an example - I watched Sunderland 'til I Die recently, and the picture painted is one that many northern English towns seem to share in. It used to have a lot of industry, but it's been gradually stripped out, and you now have a town that's just trying to keep its head above water. When certain Brexit voters talk about it being a protest vote, I guess Sunderland would be a prime host to that type - to make something, anything, change. And not everybody in Sunderland works for Nissan so we cannot assume they should have thought what'll happen to that factory, and even of those who do, I'd wonder if they voted for Brexit 60/40.

Donald Trump

Impetus wrote: »

Looking at the route from Ireland to Paris, a direct trip to Paris does not increase from 20 to 40 hours (comparing via GB travel with direct travel).

The media idiots have created an echo chamber of untruth, and the concept is going unchallenged.

Google maps puts the route from Cork to Paris at 15h41 min via Dublin and GB (1'337 km), 17h53 (1'143 km) and directly (via Roscoff) 19h6 min (1'159 km).

Going via Dublin is the longest route in km terms - mainly because of the clueless motorway network design foisted on the country by politicians and others. But due to the speed limits and road infrastructure is the fastest.

The main limiting factor on the direct Cork Roscoff Paris route is the number of sailings - practical terms. The journey time could be reduced by using waterjet technologies (eg Finland's Wärtsilä - powered by clean nastural gas) putting it on a par with the time taken via Dublin. Obviously the real speed would be dictated by sea conditions - but the real speed via GB has lots of unknowns (weather, traffic, poor road infrastructure etc) in terms of end to end journey times.

Google journey time comparison: https://tinyurl.com/ybkaprr9

Engine: https://tinyurl.com/yaplcbjt

Or we could just build a big cannon or catapult and fire the exports to France?




Being serious, if you think it is possible and cost effective to transport all goods via ferry then you need to get the finance together to put your plan into action and corner the market. Even if Brexit doesn't happen, surely you're still going to be able to compete? And given that traffic and transport costs tend to go only in one direction, you're advantage would only increase over time

KildareP

Impetus wrote: »

Why does a driver (and tractor) have to travel on a ferry?

The delivery driver could be based on the French side (using an LHD tractor), and pull the load off a boat, which only has a ferry crew on it. Even if the driver travels with the load, he is surely resting during the cruise (ie s/he is not driving). It is not possible with current technology to sleep while driving a truck through GB.

While Google may be optimistic - and is using timings for a car as opposed to a truck, it is using the same model to compute travel via GB routes as for IE <> FR direct trips.

In any event, I am proposing an LNG waterjet traction system for the maritime link, which is far faster than any freight ship currently serving Ireland at present.

Insular Ireland thinking!

Waterjet is incredibly more expensive to run however and has not had great success on the Irish Sea to date.

Stena long since withdrew all three HSS gas-turbine waterjet craft.
Two of the three have now been scrapped - well before their expected service life.
The fuel costs were astronomical when they ran 99 minute crossings, with 5 return trips a day and over the years they both extended the voyage time beyond 2 hours and cut the frequency to just one return trip a day.

Irish Ferries have had a bit better luck with their diesel waterjet craft, but even they have halved the number of crossings over the years. They also recently sold the first Swift craft to be replaced with a vessel just two years "newer" than the existing Swift but with a much slower service speed which would again point to fuel costs not being worth the faster voyage time.

Hurrache

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So, as I understand it:

1. The SUV is currently built in Japan,
2. No announcement has been made about cancelling or postponing plans to produce it at Sunderland,
3. We do not know the reason this would have happened
4. Possibilities include the fall in car sales in general, the fall in Diesel sales in particular and the problems arising from replacing Ghosn
5. It may also be worried about Brexit or the impending Eurozone recession

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1092027894610755586?s=19

briany

When is the next big news frenzy expected?

Sam Russell

Boris Johnson dumps Brexit parliamentary paperwork in fuel station bin

Bumbling Boris Johnson has trashed his own Brexit plans – dumping a load of paperwork in a petrol station bin.

The calamitous Conservative stuffed 70 pages of parliamentary work in the rubbish container after pulling up with a passenger, thought to be new love Carrie Symonds, 30.


But he was in such a rush that some pages fell to the ground as he ran across the forecourt to pay for his petrol.

The documents – including handwritten memos on the economy, the Irish backstop and his Brexit views – were picked up by a baffled member of the public and shown to the Sunday Mirror.

The finder said: “He says he wants to be Prime Minister. But how could he look after the country when he can’t even keep hold of his own notes on the biggest crisis in decades? It’s really unbelievable he put these documents in a public bin without shredding them.

Once a fool, always a fool.

Sorry, it's from the Daily Mirror.

Capt'n Midnight

VonZan wrote: »

It's hard to feel sorry for the workers. 61% voted for this. What did they think would happen?

On another note, can anyone work out how the Conservatives have made gains again? I understand Labour dropping but it's strange to see the Tories gain support. Was it the Brady amendment? Possibly Northern Labour voters switching allegiance.

Surely a Labour will turn on Corbyn soon.

This is more about Labour being unelectable than anything else.

FPTP means there is no point in voting for a third option.
Unless you live in NI or Scotland where there is no point in voting for any of the three main English parties.

https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2019/0203/1027202-uk-politics-brexit/

Public approval of Mr Corbyn's personal handling of Brexit also fell to a new low of just 16%, from 18% two weeks previously.

His disapproval rating is 61% and he has support from little more than four in ten Labour voters (42%), according to the poll.

Capt'n Midnight

Impetus wrote: »

Why does a driver (and tractor) have to travel on a ferry?

Half the traffic on the Irish Sea is already unaccompanied.

On longer journeys the % is even higher.

For the channel the trip is shorter so not such a biggie. But if there are queue's and delays and passport controls then it's going to cost more to pay for the driver's downtime. And you don't have to ship the tractor.

UsedToWait

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Theresa Mays exit to Brussels with an interview invoking battles and Britain and being armed just sets the right tone doesn't it?

In light of the BBC (allegedly accidentally) showing video of World War 2 planes over a story about May heading to Brussels last week, May saying today "I will battle for Britain" is quite an unfortunate (or deliberate) choice of phrasing.

Irishmale0399

UsedToWait wrote: »

In light of the BBC (allegedly accidentally) showing video of World War 2 planes over a story about May heading to Brussels last week, May saying today "I will battle for Britain" is quite an unfortunate (or deliberate) choice of phrasing.

The sad part of it is that she hasnt heard the EU saying they will not reopen the WA which includes the backstop. The deal she negotiated is the one on the table.



They are starting to make Trump look good at this stage.

Impetus

I’d prefer not to turn into an Elton Musk type (Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City etc), and stick to the knitting. That does not prevent me from communicating thoughts concerning matters various in a public forum.

I have added some reference links to videos and other material to my original posting
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109320859&postcount=192

Impetus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But if there are queue's and delays and passport controls then it's going to cost more to pay for the driver's downtime.

Which one is suggesting is avoided by using an alternative route. There is also the environmental issue of an LNG shipping system which is clean, compared with trucks hurtling down a motorway in England. I can't for example see the British reserving a special lane on their already overcrowded road network for EU registered vehicles to give them priority.

I see the Celtic Sea as a big wide road, capable of carrying not only freight, but fiber optics and UHVDC power lines (perhaps in the same entity). The power connections are needed to remove the risk of over-dependence on any single renewable energy source, (and remove the FX risk on selling electricity into another currency zone).

The Celtic Sea is a greatly underutilised resource.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-2.6/centery:50.2/zoom:6

nice_guy80

That's a cool website

Seth Brundle

Lizzie to be moved into hiding if things turn sour. I wonder if the secret location will be in the EU

British officials have revived Cold War emergency plans to relocate the royal family should there be riots in London if Britain suffers a disruptive departure from the European Union next month, two Sunday newspapers reported.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/queen-elizabeth-to-be-evacuated-in-event-of-brexit-unrest-1.3780582

judeboy101

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Lizzie to be moved into hiding if things turn sour. I wonder if the secret location will be in the EU


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/queen-elizabeth-to-be-evacuated-in-event-of-brexit-unrest-1.3780582

The blitz couldn't shift the monarch from London, but brexit could.

Sam Russell

judeboy101 wrote: »

The blitz couldn't shift the monarch from London, but brexit could.

I think they had plans to move the monarch to Canada, but it would be quite tricky to avoid the U-boats - so they stayed in London. They would have had to go the Scotland to avoid the bombing and the V1 and V2 rockets.

An Ciarraioch

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think they had plans to move the monarch to Canada, but it would be quite tricky to avoid the U-boats - so they stayed in London. They would have had to go the Scotland to avoid the bombing and the V1 and V2 rockets.

Somewhat OT, but various novelists such as Robert Harris, CJ Sansom among others who have written alternative WWII histories generally have the royal family and Churchill in Canada as a "government-in-exile" , suggesting this indeed was the official plan.

4068ac1elhodqr

Might be worth taking shares in the companies that make yellow vests.
Earnings down, prices up, 52 vs 48% on the streets etc.

They would really want to delay it all until Aug/Sept until spud harvest season,
not sure if much food grows or can be picked in early spring.