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Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)
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Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »I really don't believe there will be much 'Bregret' from those that supported Brexit if things go pear-shaped. If we look at our own history, when we had tens of thousands of people emigrating and an economy that was in the doldrums, how many would have said that Irish independence was a mistake? On the contrary, they would have disregarded the economic aspects instead highlighting the benefits of independence, and would have blamed any hardship on the actions of the British. And whether we like it or not the majority of Brexit-supporters see Brexit as an independence movement and will defend it on similar grounds.
I think the number of Brexit supporters who feel they voted for the wrong option will be quite small simply because most people don't like to admit that they made a mistake. I see Brexit supporters falling largely into three categories:
1) 'I knew what I was voting for' Brexiteers - These people will insist that they knew all along there would be pain, but that they felt it was a price worth paying to 'take back control.'
2) 'It could have been easy' Brexiteers - These people will be adamant it really could have worked out smoothly if not for the fault of remainers who didn't believe in it enough, and an intransigent EU that was punishing the UK.
3) 'True Believer' Brexiteers - These people will be so deep in the cult of Brexit that they will refuse to accept there even is any pain. They will brand it fake news, remoaning. They will be the equivalent of the most ardent Trump supporters across the pond. Any attempt to point out hardship will be countered by a lament about why no one is pointing out the positives.
I suspect there will be a small percentage of mainly middle-class, upper-class Brexit supporters that will think they have erred on the wrong side of history, and we might have one or two high profile figures deliver a heartfelt 'I was wrong' newspaper article piece or new book, but to most Brexiteers this will simply be another 'traitor' to add to their long list. I believe, tragically, that working class communities who voted Brexit will cling to their conviction that they have done the right thing.
Excellent post.0 -
Now that's not the full story is it?
The EIB also lent Ford £450m to develop green vehicles in the UK around the same time.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsource/amp/
Well, you certainly know how to quote non-partisan sources, don't you, like Infacts which has close links to the Remain campaign and has "Stop Brexit" in the centre of its masthead.
I take it that the loan you refer to was the one in 2010 (before the Turkish loan) which was made to a member country of the EU which was a main investor and provider of funds for the bank, a country which also guaranteed the loan.
The money came to the UK because the Research Centre is at Dunford, however, much of the benefit of the research was reaped by other countries rather than the UK which had far fewer manufacturing plants than the rest. Interestingly enough, part of the loan was for development of the Transit and other commercial vehicles. As I have pointed out, within two years this had gone to Turkey.
http://www.eib.org/en/infocentre/press/releases/all/2010/2010-121-european-investment-bank-provides-gbp-450-million-to-ford-for-new-generation-of-environmentally-friendly-engines-and-vehicle-technologies.htm0 -
Join Date:Posts: 7215
I've been keeping an eye on channel 4's Brexit reports on YouTube. They have some good insights into the madness, but the below comment caught my attention whist looking at today's article regarding the impact on tech company's. I must do a search when next on desktop to see if the guy is legit.
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Ha - I’d believe that if it hadn’t gone so spectacularly dramatic towards the end. He was doing so well but couldn’t hold it together and the whole thing became so comically despairing with the bizarre female pact not just to relocate but also to excommunicate all british guys from their lives.
I think it raises a couple of important issues though, being more serious for a moment. We know for a fact that there are fairly significant numbers of people who have been forced to up sticks and move here or the other side of the channel when they didn’t necessarily want to, and the disruption is unfortunate.
But at the same time, there is so much overdramatised b*llocks being written at the moment, like the above, that I think you can forgive some people for generally switching off even when they hear the more believable stories of disruption and loss of jobs.
It definitely doesn’t help people make informed opinions, because of that brexit fatigue factor that’s been mentioned previously0 -
Folkstonian wrote: »Ha - I’d believe that if it hadn’t gone so spectacularly dramatic towards the end. He was doing so well but couldn’t hold it together and the whole thing became so comically despairing with the bizarre female pact not just to relocate but also to excommunicate all british guys from their lives.
I think it raises a couple of important issues though, being more serious for a moment. We know for a fact that there are fairly significant numbers of people who have been forced to up sticks and move here or the other side of the channel when they didn’t necessarily want to, and the disruption is unfortunate.
But at the same time, there is so much overdramatised b*llocks being written at the moment, like the above, that I think you can forgive some people for generally switching off even when they hear the more believable stories of disruption and loss of jobs.
It definitely doesn’t help people make informed opinions, because of that brexit fatigue factor that’s been mentioned previously
Well either the guy is moving to Dublin or he isn't. What would be the point of posting a totally fake description of his current situation on Youtube of all places?0 -
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I've been keeping an eye on channel 4's Brexit reports on YouTube. They have some good insights into the madness, but the below comment caught my attention whist looking at today's article regarding the impact on tech company's. I must do a search when next on desktop to see if the guy is legit.
I obviously don't know this guy above or how legit his statement is. However, I have recently had dinner with the CEO of a a UK based global company who told me that the week Brexit was voted they took a small six person office here for the purposes of an address and in background set in motion all they needed in place over here for their business.
This most recent visit he was over on was with a "blank cheque" to buy a substantial property and he'll be turning the tables, turning a huge UK footprint of staff and multiple properties into the six person office and Ireland into the 500 to 750 staff hub. Directly as a result of Brexit, no other motivation whatsoever.
One of many I'd imagine, one of his competitors has done the exact same thing with an even larger scale company but they went to Amsterdam.0 -
All those companies establishing offices here with 10 or 20 staff is thin end of the wedge.
Take S&P for example. They opened Dublin office yesterday, 20 people - most relocated. It will probably be 200 in two years time.
These companies won't do big-bang announcements when it comes to job losses in London, it will be more delicate than that.0 -
So 10% extra on cars is grand.
Lowering standards are grand.
Loss of jobs is grand.
Massive drop off in business investment is grand.
Loss of economic growth is fine.
Total paralysis of politics is grand.
Is there anything that would make Brexit supporters to rethink?0 -
So 10% extra on cars is grand.
Lowering standards are grand.
Loss of jobs is grand.
Massive drop off in business investment is grand.
Loss of economic growth is fine.
Total paralysis of politics is grand.
Is there anything that would make Brexit supporters to rethink?
No.rule Britannia,Britannia rules the waves0 -
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On mobile so apologies for lack of link
According to editorial /article just published in Irish independent, no-deal brexit means ireland has to choose between setting up the border or leaving customs area, attributed to unnamed source
I don't usually put a lot weight in their commentary but that put the willies up me0 -
On mobile so apologies for lack of link
According to editorial /article just published in Irish independent, no-deal brexit means ireland has to choose between setting up the border or leaving customs area, attributed to unnamed source
I don't usually put a lot weight in their commentary but that put the willies up me
The single market is sacrosanct. It is Ireland’s biggest market https://t.co/nlDl0knDkZ?amp=1 €70bn in sales last year, while we sold just €14bn to mainland UK and €2bn went north.
The simple reality is you cannot prevent trucks filled with chlorinated chicken driving from UK > NI > IE > France without checks somewhere. If french authorities ever found such a truck turn up disguised as Irish goods, they would start to treat Ireland as a third country and check everything. There would be a border between Ireland and the single market.
So in simple terms a border with physical checks needs to go somewhere, we’d probably get a bit of leniency for a few months after D1ND, but they we need to have honest and frank conversation with ourselves as to which marker we put a border on. The €2bn NI market or the €70bn EU market.
I would guess that most of the €2bn going north is agriculture / milk etc., in a WTO exit it is possible much of these industries get wiped out in NI, so the 2bn number could actually shrink substantially.0 -
According to editorial /article just published in Irish independent, no-deal brexit means ireland has to choose between setting up the border or leaving customs area, attributed to unnamed source
That'd be us here on this thread! We've been discussing it for two years, most recently after the infamous John Humphrys interview. For future reference: don't let yourself be willified by anything you read in the Indo. :rolleyes:0 -
Why? Were you under the impression it was different?
The UK are leaving the EU. That has consequences0 -
It's the Indo. They should drop Irish from their name. Not because of the views expressed, but because of the atrocious journalism where like the UK, opinion and rumour are treated like facts.On mobile so apologies for lack of link
According to editorial /article just published in Irish independent, no-deal brexit means ireland has to choose between setting up the border or leaving customs area, attributed to unnamed source
I don't usually put a lot weight in their commentary but that put the willies up me0 -
It's the Indo. They should drop Irish from their name. Not because of the views expressed, but because of the atrocious journalism where like the UK, opinion and rumour are treated like facts.
But the story is not wrong though, doesn't matter where it is appearing. In a no-deal Brexit we are going to have to choose where we put in a border unless there is a side arrangement to protect the GFA.0 -
ThePanjandrum wrote: ȣ80 million EIB loan to Ford to invest in its Turkish plant in 2012.
Shortly afterwards, Ford closed the Southampton plant - its last assembly plant in the UK - where it had made Transit vans for 40 years and moved production to the Turkish factory.
The EU was at the time trying to prepare Turkey for EU membership.
Turkey were a long way from joining the EU and it was the UK who were the biggest supporters of this so don’t try and spin it as an EU plot.
Also it was a loan not a grant so they were hardly incentivizing them to move, it was a decision by Ford.0 -
This is basically correct. Why else do you think we are so keen on a backstop?On mobile so apologies for lack of link
According to editorial /article just published in Irish independent, no-deal brexit means ireland has to choose between setting up the border or leaving customs area, attributed to unnamed source
I don't usually put a lot weight in their commentary but that put the willies up me
On edit: the Indo has carried several articles by Dan O'Brien pointing out precisely this consequence of a no-deal Brexit. This isn't news even to the Indo.0 -
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »I really don't believe there will be much 'Bregret' from those that supported Brexit if things go pear-shaped. If we look at our own history, when we had tens of thousands of people emigrating and an economy that was in the doldrums, how many would have said that Irish independence was a mistake? On the contrary, they would have disregarded the economic aspects instead highlighting the benefits of independence, and would have blamed any hardship on the actions of the British. And whether we like it or not the majority of Brexit-supporters see Brexit as an independence movement and will defend it on similar grounds.
I think the number of Brexit supporters who feel they voted for the wrong option will be quite small simply because most people don't like to admit that they made a mistake. I see Brexit supporters falling largely into three categories:
1) 'I knew what I was voting for' Brexiteers - These people will insist that they knew all along there would be pain, but that they felt it was a price worth paying to 'take back control.'
2) 'It could have been easy' Brexiteers - These people will be adamant it really could have worked out smoothly if not for the fault of remainers who didn't believe in it enough, and an intransigent EU that was punishing the UK.
3) 'True Believer' Brexiteers - These people will be so deep in the cult of Brexit that they will refuse to accept there even is any pain. They will brand it fake news, remoaning. They will be the equivalent of the most ardent Trump supporters across the pond. Any attempt to point out hardship will be countered by a lament about why no one is pointing out the positives.
I suspect there will be a small percentage of mainly middle-class, upper-class Brexit supporters that will think they have erred on the wrong side of history, and we might have one or two high profile figures deliver a heartfelt 'I was wrong' newspaper article piece or new book, but to most Brexiteers this will simply be another 'traitor' to add to their long list. I believe, tragically, that working class communities who voted Brexit will cling to their conviction that they have done the right thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/15/brexit-lies-curry-vote-leave-restaurant-industry?CMP=share_btn_tw
The Bregret is already starting but not from the quarter you would expect.
It just shows that Boris would do anything to get a No vote. He never publicly said that when the UK exit they would prioritise Asian immigration.
The author of the piece is naive too
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzd74wzXQAAsJk5?format=jpg&name=large0 -
Yes, lower down in the article but what does the headline insinuate?It's the Indo. They should drop Irish from their name. Not because of the views expressed, but because of the atrocious journalism where like the UK, opinion and rumour are treated like facts.
But the story is not wrong though, doesn't matter where it is appearing. In a no-deal Brexit we are going to have to choose where we put in a border unless there is a side arrangement to protect the GFA.0 -
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/15/brexit-lies-curry-vote-leave-restaurant-industry?CMP=share_btn_tw
The Bregret is already starting but not from the quarter you would expect.
It just shows that Boris would do anything to get a No vote. He never publicly said that when the UK exit they would prioritise Asian immigration.
The author of the piece is naive too
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzd74wzXQAAsJk5?format=jpg&name=large
He made the mistake of believing Johnson and Patel. I mean why wouldn't he believe a daughter of Indian immigrants when she tells him they will relax immigration laws that will help save his industry?
I try not to get angry at people that have been conned to vote Leave as it happens all the time. At least he acknowledges he was conned. It is people that are doubling down, a few on here comes to mind, and are now prepared to leave on terms that are many times worse than they were promised by the liars that I think is naive. They still think there will be light at the end of the tunnel for them.0 -
Professor Moriarty wrote: »I can't wait for them to go now. The mask has slipped over the past two years and it's now obvious that the Tories and Trump will make perfect bedfellows.
If the UK adopted US regulations after a no-deal Brexit apart from decimatibg GB agriculture the implications for Irish agriculture would be massive.
A truck carrying cheap beef approaching the border could pull into a shed near Newry relabel the Beef as single market beef and make an extra €60,000.
The level of smuggling would be unprecedented.
Not the point but it's clear why an all weather backstop is absolutely necessary with checks at Larne and Dublin. It's the only system that works for the Island given GB red lines.0 -
Yes, lower down in the article but what does the headline insinuate?
No doubt the headline and most of the article is more of what you expect in The Sun or Daily Mail, but the premise is still correct. The article, if I am reading the same one, talks about Merkel in a phone call in January to Varadkar saying he is making it easy for Brexiters to use his proclamation that he will not put up a border as ammunition. But then contradicts it to say that she has affirmed the need for the backstop after that so you would assume she is behind Ireland and understands our position.
As to the rest, it is just affirming what we know. If there is no-deal then we will have to choose where the frontier of the EU will be as those on the continent will not hesitate to put up the borders if we aren't prepared to.
Hard border must be on the table in no-deal Brexit - Angela Merkel told Leo VaradkarGerman Chancellor Angela Merkel told the Taoiseach a hard border has to be on the table in a no-deal Brexit scenario, it has emerged.
Europe’s longest-serving leader questioned Leo Varadkar’s hard-line stance on the Border amid fears it was undercutting the EU’s negotiating position.
...
Opponents of the so-called backstop, which ties Northern Ireland to EU regulations unless and until a workable trade deal is agreed, claim it is unnecessary because both he UK and Ireland have said they will not erect a border.
According to Bloomberg, Mr Varadkar explained to Ms Merkel that no Irish government would accept checkpoints that could become targets for violence.
...
Since the phone call, Ms Merkel has publicly defended the need for the backstop. Meanwhile, both the Taoiseach and Fianna Fáil leader have insisted EU solidarity on the backstop is watertight.
Then later in the article we have this quote which is a point we have been making for a while on here already,The Government has rejected suggestions from unnamed EU diplomats that an alternative to a hard border on the island would be for checks on goods leaving Ireland for the continent.
Mr Coveney said he is "suspicious" of such ideas coming from anonymous sources who may have an agenda.
However, they echo comments made in recent weeks by Belgium MEP Philippe Lamberts, a member of the Brexit steering group of the European Parliament.
"If Ireland refuses to protect the Border with Northern Ireland after a hard Brexit, we would have to relocate the customs border to the continent," he told German news outlet 'Der Spiegel'.
Mr Varadkar sought to categorically deny this proposal yesterday, saying: "We are founder members of the single market. We can't allow a decision made in Britain to leave the European Union to undermine our membership of the single market and customs union, which we will protect."
He added that checks on goods leaving Ireland "would create a hard border between Ireland and the European Union and that is not something we can accept".
So there we have it. We are being reminded that there will need to be a border in a no-deal scenario. If we don't put up checks on the island then the EU will do it between us and the other EU countries. We, however, have ruled this out so when push comes to shove and there is not arrangement to ensure no border we will out checks on the island instead of being cut off from the single market.
I agree with all the points made about the headlines and reporting in the story being clickbait as it meanders from side to side to make the same point over and over again.0 -
Yes, lower down in the article but what does the headline insinuate?It's the Indo. They should drop Irish from their name. Not because of the views expressed, but because of the atrocious journalism where like the UK, opinion and rumour are treated like facts.
But the story is not wrong though, doesn't matter where it is appearing. In a no-deal Brexit we are going to have to choose where we put in a border unless there is a side arrangement to protect the GFA.0 -
Peregrinus wrote: »This is basically correct. Why else do you think we are so keen on a backstop?
On edit: the Indo has carried several articles by Dan O'Brien pointing out precisely this consequence of a no-deal Brexit. This isn't news even to the Indo.
The implications in the article, as I read it, are that the eu will be basically appeasing the British and adopting their position in return for the 39 billion. This would be setting a precedent in where the irish position is on the totem pole and leave us somewhat sidelined.
Whereas should the eu refuse to sideline ireland and allow a period of time to elapse, waiting for the UK to establish a border, this would simultaneously reaffirm Ireland's status with the eu while also displaying albions perfidious nature. And the UK's (lack of willingness) to keep to international agreements will be very important in future agreements.
So while the outcome of a hard border is a given in a no deal situation, the process in establishing it is very relevant0 -
Sorry for double post. I'd imagine there are discussions with the EU as to what kind of checks and where. Smuggling will increase but there's an acceptable level whereby the extra costs /checks are not worth. And of course the symbolism of check points at the border. A right mess the UK has dropped us in.Yes, lower down in the article but what does the headline insinuate?
No doubt the headline and most of the article is more of what you expect in The Sun or Daily Mail, but the premise is still correct. The article, if I am reading the same one, talks about Merkel in a phone call in January to Varadkar saying he is making it easy for Brexiters to use his proclamation that he will not put up a border as ammunition. But then contradicts it to say that she has affirmed the need for the backstop after that so you would assume she is behind Ireland and understands our position.
As to the rest, it is just affirming what we know. If there is no-deal then we will have to choose where the frontier of the EU will be as those on the continent will not hesitate to put up the borders if we aren't prepared to.
Hard border must be on the table in no-deal Brexit - Angela Merkel told Leo VaradkarGerman Chancellor Angela Merkel told the Taoiseach a hard border has to be on the table in a no-deal Brexit scenario, it has emerged.
Europe’s longest-serving leader questioned Leo Varadkar’s hard-line stance on the Border amid fears it was undercutting the EU’s negotiating position.
...
Opponents of the so-called backstop, which ties Northern Ireland to EU regulations unless and until a workable trade deal is agreed, claim it is unnecessary because both he UK and Ireland have said they will not erect a border.
According to Bloomberg, Mr Varadkar explained to Ms Merkel that no Irish government would accept checkpoints that could become targets for violence.
...
Since the phone call, Ms Merkel has publicly defended the need for the backstop. Meanwhile, both the Taoiseach and Fianna Fáil leader have insisted EU solidarity on the backstop is watertight.
Then later in the article we have this quote which is a point we have been making for a while on here already,The Government has rejected suggestions from unnamed EU diplomats that an alternative to a hard border on the island would be for checks on goods leaving Ireland for the continent.
Mr Coveney said he is "suspicious" of such ideas coming from anonymous sources who may have an agenda.
However, they echo comments made in recent weeks by Belgium MEP Philippe Lamberts, a member of the Brexit steering group of the European Parliament.
"If Ireland refuses to protect the Border with Northern Ireland after a hard Brexit, we would have to relocate the customs border to the continent," he told German news outlet 'Der Spiegel'.
Mr Varadkar sought to categorically deny this proposal yesterday, saying: "We are founder members of the single market. We can't allow a decision made in Britain to leave the European Union to undermine our membership of the single market and customs union, which we will protect."
He added that checks on goods leaving Ireland "would create a hard border between Ireland and the European Union and that is not something we can accept".
So there we have it. We are being reminded that there will need to be a border in a no-deal scenario. If we don't put up checks on the island then the EU will do it between us and the other EU countries. We, however, have ruled this out so when push comes to shove and there is not arrangement to ensure no border we will out checks on the island instead of being cut off from the single market.
I agree with all the points made about the headlines and reporting in the story being clickbait as it meanders from side to side to make the same point over and over again.0 -
Isn't it the elephant in the room. If the UK leaves with no deal and opens their border we don't have a choice.
Is not the EU forcing us to do this. We can choose not to, but then we're in the same **** as the UK.
It's not a surprise and the politicians have been tippy toeing around it because its such a controversial topic in Ireland.
I'm not sure if it's hugely controversial for most Irish people though. Most of us can add one and one and get two. We don't want a border but so be it. Obviously the more excitable and probably opposition tds will make hay out of it but its life.
I personally think it'll accelerate a united Ireland. We can't afford it and it'll be tough but I think if anything over the last couple of years have shown its that we're a bit more sensible than the UK side. If they were negotiating the original border we'd probably have ended up with Scotland.0 -
We're not going to cut ourselves off to suit the UK. The discussion is what level is required, economically, and balance this with the political ramifications of once again putting a physical division on our island because the UK is in full empire nostalgia delusion mode.mickoneill31 wrote: »Isn't it the elephant in the room. If the UK leaves with no deal and opens their border we don't have a choice.
Is not the EU forcing us to do this. We can choose not to, but then we're in the same **** as the UK.
It's not a surprise and the politicians have been tippy toeing around it because its such a controversial topic in Ireland.
I'm not sure if it's hugely controversial for most Irish people though. Most of us can add one and one and get two. We don't want a border but so be it. Obviously the more excitable and probably opposition tds will make hay out of it but its life.
I personally think it'll accelerate a united Ireland. We can't afford it and it'll be tough but I think if anything over the last couple of years have shown its that we're a bit more sensible than the UK side. If they were negotiating the original border we'd probably have ended up with Scotland.0 -
CelticRambler wrote: »You're right - it's more complex than this (and not a little, either!) Milk is "seasonal", so NI milk is coming across the border to make up for a shortfall in RoI production from time to time. That's mainly for immediate consumption, i.e. as fresh milk. Much of Ireland's exported milk is for processing into something else, notably cheese, but also whey proteins and other ingredients for something else again. At the moment, there are UK factories making secondary ingredients that are sold back into Ireland and into other EU countries to eventually end up in a finished product on a supermarket shelf or a restaurant plate.
Will the tariffs cancel themselves out? No. As much as possible, Irish farmers will increase their output to compensate for the loss of NI milk. Exports to the UK may or may not be affected. On the one hand, the UK will be desperate for food, so our history as a reliable nearby source will make us a preferential supplier (and remember, the Brexiteers have told us that they're not putting up a border/not applying tariffs ...) On the otherhand, there will be less of a demand, seeing as the market for UK ingredients will be hammered: why would any EU manufacturer pay over the odds for British ingredients when they can get the same product cheaper from Ireland, France or Germany?
So we'll probably see Irish dairies expand their production of secondary ingredients, we'll see some British factories set up in Ireland, and the Irish agri-sector will continue to develop into continental markets.
You keep doing this. You make stuff up to suit your argument and then say it with confidence in the hope it won't be question. Heres just a few from this post:
Milk is not seasonal - there is a tiny uplift at the height of the summer but the pricing structure ensures winter milk is incentifised thereby all but cancelling out fluctuation.
Almost all milk that goes south is turned into long life products eg baby formula, cheese etc.
Almost all the product returns to the UK.
The main tennent of your argument is that ROI will not take NI milk leaving the farmers stuck with it, but the UK will desperately need ROI milk - lol the NI farmers must be going to pour all their milk out just to annoy the Brits lol0 -
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This is an excellent post. Right on the money. Much of it I hadn't considered until reading. Thank youMr.Nice Guy wrote: »I really don't believe there will be much 'Bregret' from those that supported Brexit if things go pear-shaped. If we look at our own history, when we had tens of thousands of people emigrating and an economy that was in the doldrums, how many would have said that Irish independence was a mistake? On the contrary, they would have disregarded the economic aspects instead highlighting the benefits of independence, and would have blamed any hardship on the actions of the British. And whether we like it or not the majority of Brexit-supporters see Brexit as an independence movement and will defend it on similar grounds.
I think the number of Brexit supporters who feel they voted for the wrong option will be quite small simply because most people don't like to admit that they made a mistake. I see Brexit supporters falling largely into three categories:
1) 'I knew what I was voting for' Brexiteers - These people will insist that they knew all along there would be pain, but that they felt it was a price worth paying to 'take back control.'
2) 'It could have been easy' Brexiteers - These people will be adamant it really could have worked out smoothly if not for the fault of remainers who didn't believe in it enough, and an intransigent EU that was punishing the UK.
3) 'True Believer' Brexiteers - These people will be so deep in the cult of Brexit that they will refuse to accept there even is any pain. They will brand it fake news, remoaning. They will be the equivalent of the most ardent Trump supporters across the pond. Any attempt to point out hardship will be countered by a lament about why no one is pointing out the positives.
I suspect there will be a small percentage of mainly middle-class, upper-class Brexit supporters that will think they have erred on the wrong side of history, and we might have one or two high profile figures deliver a heartfelt 'I was wrong' newspaper article piece or new book, but to most Brexiteers this will simply be another 'traitor' to add to their long list. I believe, tragically, that working class communities who voted Brexit will cling to their conviction that they have done the right thing.
If we do enter a 50 year period of economic despair I guess we will just dig in like the Irish and become even more proud of our independence. At more or less every point over the last 100 years it would have benefited ROI economically (and indeed equity, rights, separating church and state, etc) to come back under British control - there weren't too many voices calling for it or complaining about the pain their decision caused.0
This discussion has been closed.
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