Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

beejee

beejee wrote: »

No, not bullsheet at all.

Its not about timing markets down to the second. You can be as lazy as time it down to the blooming year or two :P

Do you seriously think, genuinely, that everyone lost money when everyone else lost money, and vice versa? You need to be crazy to believe that. There are entities and individuals who make absolute killings at the expense of everyone else being morons. Look at all the vulture funds who swooped in the country when it was on its knees, how clever did you have to be to see this place was ripe for the plucking? Not very, is the answer.

Its not some genius mind that can only do it! Its as simple as self-awareness, awareness of your environment. You can make a lot of money in good times, but generational wealth is made during "bad" times.

Any clown that is heavily investing their time/lives/efforts on the current state of affairs?! Good luck!

Its not "timing the markets", its just plain old common sense.

Vulture funds bought well off the low point pricewise, they weren't buying 08 to 12.
You're a hindsight spoofer.
Again...15 years ago who saw what coming?
And you are now forecasting some kind of recession imminently I take it?

beejee

Augeo wrote: »

Vulture funds bought well off the low point pricewise, they weren't buying 08 to 12.
You're a hindsight spoofer.
Again...15 years ago who saw what coming?
And you are now forecasting some kind of recession imminently I take it?

Using your example, that's making my point. They didn't need to do anything Nostradamus-esque, they sat for years assessing the situation, and STILL made a killing after the fact. And they'll do it again. And again.

I mean, what are you trying to say here, that every single person is pig-ignorant? Does it disturb you that some people might be pulling a fast one on you (a two year long "fast" one is fast?)

Im not saying im that person that can predict everything, im just merely pointing out the obvious, that is, large groups of people are as thick as shyte, while much smaller numbers of people are everything but.

Its not a revelation. And yes, for what its worth, I am most certainly making an educated guess that the game is up for a great many nonsensical things. Because, shockingly enough, they are nonsensical. The only initial surprise is how long nonsense can be sustained, but that wears off quickly and, more importantly, inevitably.

Whats your estimate on the short to medium term? That the stacking problems of the world and this country are just "by the by", no big deal? Nothing will change?

Perhaps you think housing will increase in price forever, 50 billion for a shed in dundrum by 2050? Maybe you think it will all level off, just like it has never done in the history of the universe :P

Replace housing with mass migration, environment, wage stagnation, employment stability, automation, healthcare, Brexit, trump, tariffs blah blah blah. You think these things are not already impacting?

If so, good for you. Believe what you want either way, but don't scratch your head in amazement when it comes tumbling.

About the 15 years ago thing; it wasn't as clear as now, not nearly as bad, but all you had to do was look at the escalation in house prices, it was a massive jump in a short while. It only got worse and worse as the next few years came along. Again, it was hardly Nostradamus to see that these increasing prices would blow eventually. Who cares if youre 2 or 3 years out, maybe even 4 or 5. The main thing is that you didn't buy into the crazy. Simple, yet so elusive for so many.

wonski

Gael23 wrote: »

The more operations and appointments are cancelled the greater public anger will grow

My Tuesday appointment has been rescheduled for 5th of March, to give you an idea of the delays. Mind this is just a routine post op visit (ortho).

Hopefully more urgent cases are dealt with quicker, but wouldn't hold my breath. They can't just cancel or move other people to accommodate this week patients.

Mad_maxx

Augeo wrote: »

Vulture funds bought well off the low point pricewise, they weren't buying 08 to 12.
You're a hindsight spoofer.
Again...15 years ago who saw what coming?
And you are now forecasting some kind of recession imminently I take it?

Very true, vulture funds started showing up around 2014 when rents started going up sharply and Ireland had just exited the bailout

Gael23

wonski wrote: »

My Tuesday appointment has been rescheduled for 5th of March, to give you an idea of the delays. Mind this is just a routine post op visit (ortho).

Hopefully more urgent cases are dealt with quicker, but wouldn't hold my breath. They can't just cancel or move other people to accommodate this week patients.

I have an appointment at the end of March and if that’s cancelled then I’m left without medication as what I’m taking can only be prescribed by a hospital. I won’t be supporting them any longer if that happens

alloywheel

physioman wrote: »

They will not cave in. The nurses will cave. Can't strike forever. They can't afford to. Government are saving a fortune on not paying 30k+ nurses.

Too true, and most people are definitely against the nurses now. Not only are the nurses much better paid than most people ( nurses average 58,000 per year ) but they have security and pensions and perks like average 10-11 sickies a year most people can only dream of. Nobody wants to pay more tax just to pay the nurses even more.

eagle eye

alloywheel wrote:

Too true, and most people are definitely against the nurses now. Not only are the nurses much better paid than most people ( nurses average 58,000 per year ) but they have security and pensions and perks like average 10-11 sickies a year most people can only dream of. Nobody wants to pay more tax just to pay the nurses even more.

Most people are in favour of the nurses in the real world. That is where you walk down the street and talk to people in person.
My wife is in severe pain with a back issue and requires an injection into her spine. We had to cancel it because it was a day the nurses were on strike, we had to check to see if they were on strike today because it was rescheduled for today. We wouldn't be going if they were on strike.
There are loads of people, a huge majority of people I know who are fully behind the nurses.
If you go by a place where they are on strike you'll see lots of people driving by beeping their horns and waving showing support for the strike.

alloywheel

eagle eye wrote: »

If you go by a place where they are on strike you'll see lots of people driving by beeping their horns and waving showing support for the strike.

6% were beeping their horns, and they were all teachers and public servants or spouses of nurses. If you talk to most people in the real world, they do not want to pay more tax to pay the public servants even more. Especially when it has been shown our nurses are some of the best paid and pensioned in the world as it is.

Wanderer78

alloywheel wrote:

6% were beeping their horns, and they were all teachers and public servants or spouses of nurses. If you talk to most people in the real world, they do not want to pay more tax to pay the public servants even more. Especially when it has been shown our nurses are some of the best paid and pensioned in the world as it is.

You were busy surveying, I must be living in an alternative world, didn't realise we had a 'real world'!

beejee

beejee wrote: »

...........
Perhaps you think housing will increase in price forever, 50 billion for a shed in dundrum by 2050? Maybe you think it will all level off, just like it has never done in the history of the universe :P

Replace housing with mass migration, environment, wage stagnation, employment stability, automation, healthcare, Brexit, trump, tariffs blah blah blah. You think these things are not already impacting?

If so, good for you. Believe what you want either way, but don't scratch your head in amazement when it comes tumbling...................

Listen fred, I can think there's no impending disaster in IRELAND without thinking that housing will increase in price forever, 50 billion for a shed in dundrum by 2050 etc etc.

You made a comment that 15 years ago "all this" or something was clear as day to happen. I pointed out you were talking through your hoop. Back in 2004 it wasn't expcted that house prices would rocket to their 2007/2008 peaks ffs.
And pre bust no one had any idea where we'd be now.

Your master plan is to stop building the hospital, throw the money in the bank and build it in some time in the future when it'll be cheaper. You don't know when that time is and you are ignoring that the hospital is needed now.
There are certain things that over rule cost, a children's hospital is one of them IMO.

You claim to have an educated opinion, you're nothing but a captain hindsight merchant.

Who is pulling a fast one on me, oh wise one?

beejee wrote: »

............. Does it disturb you that some people might be pulling a fast one on you (a two year long "fast" one is fast?)........

Seanachai

eagle eye wrote: »

Most people are in favour of the nurses in the real world. That is where you walk down the street and talk to people in person.
My wife is in severe pain with a back issue and requires an injection into her spine. We had to cancel it because it was a day the nurses were on strike, we had to check to see if they were on strike today because it was rescheduled for today. We wouldn't be going if they were on strike.
There are loads of people, a huge majority of people I know who are fully behind the nurses.
If you go by a place where they are on strike you'll see lots of people driving by beeping their horns and waving showing support for the strike.

There's some on here visualising the people beeping wearing Celtic jerseys with cans hanging out the windows. Or with Che Guevara stickers on the cars.

eagle eye

Seanachai wrote:

There's some on here visualising the people beeping wearing Celtic jerseys with cans hanging out the windows. Or with Che Guevara stickers on the cars.

Yeah because they live in la la Land, more commonly know as online.
I wonder do they ever actually talk to a person face to face.

tretorn

The nurses seem to have decided who they want to benchmark themselves against and its gone from a pay increase to demanding parity with physios and dieticans and other grades. These grades are more specialist than nurses so have akways been paid more. Physios etc will be very unhsppy if the principle is accepted that nurses because they have strength in numbers should earn as much as them.

What is the situation in other countries, sre nurses paid the same ss Physio graduates.

I would think there are pay differentials everywhere between graduate nurses, graduate physios and graduate Junior doctors and if nurses are paid at physio level then Junior doctors and Physios will want the differential restored through more money.

Public support for the nurses will disappear soon, they need to be realistic in their demands. The problem seems to lie in attracting more nurses and realistically its to the Philipines and India we should be looking to fill the gap and not endlessly training young Irish nurses who are going to travel no matter what they are paid.

eagle eye

tretorn wrote:

Public support for the nurses will disappear soon, they need to be realistic in their demands. The problem seems to lie in attracting more nurses and realistically its to the Philipines and India we should be looking to fill the gap and not endlessly training young Irish nurses who are going to travel no matter what they are paid.

I prefer somebody intelligent with good English when I go to hospital.

acequion

alloywheel wrote: »

Too true, and most people are definitely against the nurses now. Not only are the nurses much better paid than most people ( nurses average 58,000 per year ) but they have security and pensions and perks like average 10-11 sickies a year most people can only dream of. Nobody wants to pay more tax just to pay the nurses even more.

You're a total broken record this stage, spoofing the same old bullshyt over and over. You're actually providing comic relief at this stage.

Teachers and nurses'husbands the only ones beeping :pac::pac:

And can you provide a link to your breaking news revelation that most people don't support the nurses? Because from anything I've read or heard they still have a majority public support. Or do you think this FG echo chamber thread is the real world?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I prefer somebody intelligent with good English when I go to hospital.

Folk from the Philipines and India aren't intelligent and don't have good English?

eagle eye

Augeo wrote:

Folk from the Philipines and India aren't intelligent and don't have good English?

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

Old diesel

tretorn wrote: »

The nurses seem to have decided who they want to benchmark themselves against and its gone from a pay increase to demanding parity with physios and dieticans and other grades. These grades are more specialist than nurses so have akways been paid more. Physios etc will be very unhsppy if the principle is accepted that nurses because they have strength in numbers should earn as much as them.

What is the situation in other countries, sre nurses paid the same ss Physio graduates.

I would think there are pay differentials everywhere between graduate nurses, graduate physios and graduate Junior doctors and if nurses are paid at physio level then Junior doctors and Physios will want the differential restored through more money.

Public support for the nurses will disappear soon, they need to be realistic in their demands. The problem seems to lie in attracting more nurses and realistically its to the Philipines and India we should be looking to fill the gap and not endlessly training young Irish nurses who are going to travel no matter what they are paid.

So to save 6 k a person per year in wages you want to import cheaper nurses.

So many questions.....

1) has this not been tried before.....

2) what's the plan when your imported nurses find they can't rent a place.*

3) if you can't attract nurses then you need to make the role more attractive for nurses to join in this country.

4) can we import cheaper landlords as well - the current landlord model is a drain on the economy with people handing over more and more money without any product improvement.

*oh crap we need to improve the wages and build houses - oh my god we have to spend money.

gctest50

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

How are you measuring that now ?

MarinersBlues

Would removing the two tier pay structure for new entrants solve this issue?

By eliminating it new nurses would have a more attractive salary, incentivising more to stay.
Existing nurses would get the extra staff and better conditions they want.

The government would grasp the nettle on this probelm in the wider public sector.
It has to be addressed at some stage or there will be more unrest/strikes.

MarinersBlues

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Would removing the two tier pay structure for new entrants solve this issue?

By eliminating it new nurses would have a more attractive salary, incentivising more to stay.
Existing nurses would get the extra staff and better conditions they want.
.............

Existing nurses want more cash.
Unless they get that I can't see the problem being solved, nurses (all of them) want more cash

MarinersBlues

Augeo wrote: »

Existing nurses want more cash.
Unless they get that I can't see the problem being solved, nurses (all of them) want more cash

Any nurses I see interviewed talk about the stress of the job and lack of resources.
I haven't seen any interviews where (guessing by their age) nurses on the old payscales talk about pay.

tretorn

The Filipino and Indian nurses are already filling the vacanies and surely its better to have a less intelligent nurse than none at all. Its the more intelligent nurses who arent satisfied with the role so maybe go back to training on the ward and dtop sending trainee nurses to college for four years, this is giving them notions when actually nursing is hard physical graft no matter where you work.

Funny enough most nurses who go to Australia come back after a few years so its not the Utopia its being portrayed as.

Nurses are a group of Public Sector workers and they dont derserve special treatment, they werent singled out for cuts during the recession, every single PS worker had their income slashed, none lost their jobs.

Tell me how

tretorn wrote: »

The Filipino and Indian nurses are already filling the vacanies and surely its better to have a less intelligent nurse than none at all. Its the more intelligent nurses who arent satisfied with the role so maybe go back to training on the ward and dtop sending trainee nurses to college for four years, this is giving them notions when actually nursing is hard physical graft no matter where you work.

Funny enough most nurses who go to Australia come back after a few years so its not the Utopia its being portrayed as.

Nurses are a group of Public Sector workers and they dont derserve special treatment, they werent singled out for cuts during the recession, every single PS worker had their income slashed, none lost their jobs.

Have you performed IQ tests on all nurses so that you can qualify this statement, or do you have a link to some evidence?

MarinersBlues

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Any nurses I see interviewed talk about the stress of the job and lack of resources.
I haven't seen any interviews where (guessing by their age) nurses on the old payscales talk about pay.

the placards they are carrying say are often referring to pay

johnytwentyten

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

Sweet Jesus, not as intelligent in general, quite the statement

Old diesel

tretorn wrote: »

The Filipino and Indian nurses are already filling the vacanies and surely its better to have a less intelligent nurse than none at all. Its the more intelligent nurses who arent satisfied with the role so maybe go back to training on the ward and dtop sending trainee nurses to college for four years, this is giving them notions when actually nursing is hard physical graft no matter where you work.

Funny enough most nurses who go to Australia come back after a few years so its not the Utopia its being portrayed as.

Nurses are a group of Public Sector workers and they dont derserve special treatment, they werent singled out for cuts during the recession, every single PS worker had their income slashed, none lost their jobs.

They already do on ward training as part of their current training.

Re the Australia thing - the work is somewhat easier over there with a 1 nurse to 4 patient ratio.

Nursing as a profession has evolved with more complex healthcare needs - requiring a nurse to have more knowledge and skills then many years ago.

You the patient actually benefit from your nurse having extra knowledge and training.

ELM327

eagle eye wrote: »

Not as intelligent in general as Irish nurses and certainly the English is hard to understand from many.

You are a racist ****. That is all.
I'd love to see some substantive data around this. Not that there will be any

MarinersBlues

Augeo wrote: »

the placards they are carrying say are often referring to pay

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/second-day-of-nurses-strike-has-dramatic-impact-on-services-1.3782720

Around 40,000 nurses and midwives from the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO) are striking over pay, which they claim is leading to staff retention issues.

It seems to be staff retention issues as a result of poor pay.

It my understanding that it is younger nurses on the lower that are willing to move abroad, not nurses who are established on the higher payscales.

They are constantly referencing graduates in any discussion I hear.

Mad_maxx

Augeo wrote: »

Folk from the Philipines and India aren't intelligent and don't have good English?

Don't know about the Philippines but any duff consultant I've ever seen has been either Indian or Pakistani