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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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    #3722
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Augeo wrote: »
    Free fees.....

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/fees.html

    From that very link
    Most colleges charge an annual student contribution, formerly called the student services charge. It is also known as a registration fee and it covers student services and examinations. The amount of the contribution varies from one institution to another. The maximum rate of the student contribution for the academic year 2018-2019 is €3,000.

    If there is charge it's not free.

    You said 3rd level is essentially free. Your words, not mine.
    You did not say 3rd level students on their first undergraduate degree do not have to pay tuition fees - which would be essentially correct.

    Essentially free is incorrect because "Most colleges charge an annual student contribution" - says it right there in the link you provided.


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    #3723
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Augeo wrote: »
    Free fees.....

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/fees.html

    Amazing how a discussion on the Nurses strike is absorbed by pedantic argument over the cost of third level education. For what it's worth there is a charge (fee, contribution, whatever you wish to call it) of €3000pa. In addition there is the cost of accommodation, which is substantial. But, it's all moot as it's not unique to the study of Nursing or Midwifery, nor is it pertinent to the strike.


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    #3724
    RinusLaptop76
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭RinusLaptop76


    Augeo wrote: »
    Sorry... I never said they have no loans.
    4 years of third level is free.
    & I'm sure many nursing students get grants for reg fees etc the same as any eligible student on other courses.

    Again no facts, I am sure you say, and then it is fine, if others say it like that it has to backed by numbers etc.


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    #3725
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,081 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    feckthisgenie wrote: »
    I also know the situation and I call bullsh1t on what you say. If the father pays and does all you say then why has there not been uproar on the false reporting?

    Don't you know that item wasn't released without being checked by professionals, She just didn't credit him and everyone assumed he wasn't around same as you, she doesn't say he has the children as much as he has either.
    She didn't tell lies , she just didn't tell everything


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    #3726
    RinusLaptop76
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭RinusLaptop76


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    The first point on a staff nurse pay scale is 29,345.

    I stand corrected


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    #3727
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    From that very link


    If there is charge it's not free.

    You said 3rd level is essentially free. Your words, not mine.
    You did not say 3rd level students on their first undergraduate degree do not have to pay tuition fees - which would be essentially correct.

    Essentially free is incorrect because "Most colleges charge an annual student contribution" - says it right there in the link you provided.

    The tuition is free, the education part.


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    #3728
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Samantha Icy Rubbish wrote: »
    Amazing how a discussion on the Nurses strike is absorbed by pedantic argument over the cost of third level education. For what it's worth there is a charge (fee, contribution, whatever you wish to call it) of €3000pa. In addition there is the cost of accommodation, which is substantial. But, it's all moot as it's not unique to the study of Nursing or Midwifery, nor is it pertinent to the strike.

    Indeed it is a moot point.
    I didn't bring it up :)


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    #3729
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RinusLaptop76 wrote: »
    Again no facts, I am sure you say, and then it is fine, if others say it like that it has to backed by numbers etc.

    Reckoning some nursing students get grants needs to be backed up by facts ?
    Are you serious?


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    #3730
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    I see 3 outcomes.

    1. Gov do nothing, eventually nurses pockets start taking a hit from no pay and they do ****ty deal

    2. Gov apply fempi to nurses as they have broken pay agreement, nurses go all out strike , someone dies as result in hospital and ****ty deal done.

    3. Nurses agree to stop protest and "commission" set up to look into blah blah blah....


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    #3731
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,081 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    RinusLaptop76 wrote: »
    I stand corrected

    I doubt if the government believes the poor mouth effort outa them if their salaries are that good.


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    #3732
    David73
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 162 ✭✭David73


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    The first point on a staff nurse pay scale is 29,345.

    Martina girl, Rinus does not deal in facts.

    They are into spouting poor mothery outta their ass, to suit their own agenda.

    Just like the nurses claims for a pay increase!


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    #3733
    David73
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 162 ✭✭David73


    Augeo wrote: »
    Reckoning some nursing students get grants needs to be backed up by facts ?
    Are you serious?

    Auego, that Rinus has been spouting ****e all day with no referenses. When they are challenged they simply insult the others argument and demand references !

    Rinus quoted nurses start at 24k, was then caught out as they start at 29k


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    #3734
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    I see 3 outcomes.

    1. Gov do nothing, eventually nurses pockets start taking a hit from no pay and they do ****ty deal

    2. Gov apply fempi to nurses as they have broken pay agreement, nurses go all out strike , someone dies as result in hospital and ****ty deal done.

    3. Nurses agree to stop protest and "commission" set up to look into blah blah blah....

    Allowances being looked at now which probably means some mechanism is found to pay them without impacting on the other PS unions and latest pay agreement.


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    #3735
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,082 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    I know this discussion has been partly hijacked by posts on third level fees,but in relation to those fees I think every third level student regardless of what course he or she is doing has to pay a €3000 registration fee for each year of their course.Depending on their family financial circumstances students are entitled to apply to SUSI for a grant to cover in full or part cover the registration fees,also a student is entitled to an accommodation/ travel payment depending on the distance between their home and the college.Those grants/allowances are means tested by SUSI.


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    #3736
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    I see 3 outcomes.

    1. Gov do nothing, eventually nurses pockets start taking a hit from no pay and they do ****ty deal

    2. Gov apply fempi to nurses as they have broken pay agreement, nurses go all out strike , someone dies as result in hospital and ****ty deal done.

    3. Nurses agree to stop protest and "commission" set up to look into blah blah blah....

    The INMO has a big call to make tomorrow. A three day consecutive strike is a huge escalation and can do as much damage to the nurses reputation as the governments. And will individual nurses just start breaking the pickets out of a sense of duty & care? I don't think they ever thought it'd go this far.


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    #3737
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭trellheim


    The INMO has a big call to make tomorrow. A three day consecutive strike is a huge escalation and can do as much damage to the nurses reputation as the governments. And will individual nurses just start breaking the pickets out of a sense of duty & care? I don't think they ever thought it'd go this far.

    A: No they wont pass pickets
    B: Yes they did. It was a 95% ballot for action all the way.

    INMO have been very clear on this. Even the LUAS drivers had more action from the Management side at this stage and they were the least deserving of any cohort in the last decade of a payrise.


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    #3738
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    The INMO has a big call to make tomorrow. A three day consecutive strike is a huge escalation and can do as much damage to the nurses reputation as the governments. And will individual nurses just start breaking the pickets out of a sense of duty & care? I don't think they ever thought it'd go this far.

    Far too much emphasis on “reputation” and “public opinion”.
    When you strike you put all that kind of rubbish aside and fight only for what you want.
    Individual nurses will stick to what the Union want them to stick to.


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    #3739
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Far too much emphasis on “reputation” and “public opinion”.
    When you strike you put all that kind of rubbish aside and fight only for what you want.
    Individual nurses will stick to what the Union want them to stick to.

    Exactly.

    Public opinion my arse.

    Most people from Joe Public aren’t exactly fans of our elected officials.

    Doesn’t stop our elected officials getting away with gouging us.
    High taxation and SH1T€ services.

    Pay front line staff more.


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    #3740
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    David73 wrote: »
    Yes Engineers start on a lower salary and an engineering course is far more academically challenging than a nursey degree

    So do architects, its a longer and more difficult course than nursing and upon completion of 5 years 3rd level, architects get paid peanuts for 2 years if they are lucky enough to get a job at all. And during the recession 70% lost their jobs. How many nurses lost their jobs?


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    #3741
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alloywheel wrote: »
    So do architects, its a longer and more difficult course than nursing and upon completion of 5 years 3rd level, architects get paid peanuts for 2 years if they are lucky enough to get a job at all. And during the recession 70% lost their jobs. How many nurses lost their jobs?

    Get out there and strike then and show a bit of backbone.


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    #3742
    David73
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 162 ✭✭David73


    alloywheel wrote: »
    So do architects, its a longer and more difficult course than nursing and upon completion of 5 years 3rd level, architects get paid peanuts for 2 years if they are lucky enough to get a job at all. And during the recession 70% lost their jobs. How many nurses lost their jobs?

    Be careful there Alloywheel you're making too much of a valid counter argument there. The likes of Mike, Vartra, feckthisgenie and Rinus won't like that at all!


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    #3743
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Far too much emphasis on “reputation” and “public opinion”.
    When you strike you put all that kind of rubbish aside and fight only for what you want.
    I agree, nurses now have a very low reputation with most members of the public when they put their own selfish claim for a pay increase ahead of appointments with cancer patients, which were cancelled.

    The nurses are going to be disappointed with their union leading them astray when they strike and get nothing. The government cannot give them anything because that would be unfair to other hospital staff, and because the government is 200 billion in debt with Brexit and a probable recession coming.


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    #3744
    feckthisgenie
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    The INMO has a big call to make tomorrow. A three day consecutive strike is a huge escalation and can do as much damage to the nurses reputation as the governments. And will individual nurses just start breaking the pickets out of a sense of duty & care? I don't think they ever thought it'd go this far.

    The ball is in the government's court now.
    This hasn't been sprung on them, these 3 days are known weeks now and the government should have it sorted by now, so blood will be on their hands.
    But our government would rather pay 100's of millions to junior bondholders and prop up the banks then play nurses


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    #3745
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Get out there and strike then and show a bit of backbone.
    There would be no point in architects or most people in the private sector striking because wherever they work would simply be forced to close.


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    #3746
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    feckthisgenie wrote: »
    But our government would rather pay 100's of millions to junior bondholders and prop up the banks then play nurses

    It was the EU who forced the government not to burn the bondholders and creditor banks in Europe. Blame our government and the EU for that. That was a different matter to public sector pay.
    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    This country will be bankrupt again in a few years if we carry on public spending. It wont be the public sector that will lose their jobs and be forced to emigrate then

    Well said.


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    #3747
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    alloywheel wrote: »
    There would be no point in architects or most people in the private sector striking because wherever they work would simply be forced to close.

    Pretty sure architects and engineers and project managers and waitresses all get paid more in Dubai and uae too.


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    #3748
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alloywheel wrote: »
    I agree, nurses now have a very low reputation with most members of the public when they put their own selfish claim for a pay increase ahead of appointments with cancer patients, which were cancelled.

    The nurses are going to be disappointed with their union leading them astray when they strike and get nothing. The government cannot give them anything because that would be unfair to other hospital staff, and because the government is 200 billion in debt with Brexit and a probable recession coming.

    Ah for Jaysus sake they said the same about the Garda, Luas drivers and every other organization that ever had a strike or threatened one. Reputation me hole.

    If you want anything you have to fight for it. Reputation butters no parsnips.
    They found money for the Garda quick enough from that empty purse.


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    #3749
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    alloywheel wrote: »
    There would be no point in architects or most people in the private sector striking because wherever they work would simply be forced to close.


    Plenty of private sector workers have gone on strike, Dunnes stores and Luas for starters.


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    #3750
    feckthisgenie
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Plenty of private sector workers have gone on strike, Dunnes stores and Luas for starters.

    Luas was the biggest joke of the lot


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    #3751
    alloywheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭alloywheel


    And that is just one of many reasons why the nurses will not get it: if they get it then the physios and hospital porters and ambulance drivers and clerical staff and teachers and you name it will want it too. €58,000 a year is average pay of nurses and compares favourably with other peoples income as it is.


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